Zone1 Where in The Bible does it state that "Christians" will be "Raptured Up" before The Tribulation?

I haven't offered an opinion on the rapture. If I do it will be biblical. My one-line statements are clearly understood by many who know their Bibles.

I understood and disagreed with your statement which is why I said what I did. God has not done away with Israel. He will reinstate her when He establishes the Kingdom at Christs return. And she will be under law. Which I supported with the Scripture.

All views on the Rapture are usually Biblical. Biblical in the sense they use the Bible. Doesn't mean they are correct.

Quantrill
 
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The Jews still follow the Mosaic law.

The Jews or anyone else can follow the law if they want to. The Law is only of value if God recognizes it. It may make men feel good but it does nothing in being accepted of God.

Quantrill
 
I understood and disagreed with your statement which is why I said what I did. God has not done away with Israel. He will reinstate her when He establishes the Kingdom at Christs return. And she will be under law. Which I supported with the Scripture.

All views on the Rapture are usually Biblical. Biblical in the sense they use the Bible. Doesn't mean they are correct.

Quantrill
When did I say God has "done away" with Israel? God reconciled Israel back to himself by sending Jesus Christ to minister to them.

"I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." -J. Christ
 
When did I say God has "done away" with Israel? God reconciled Israel back to himself by sending Jesus Christ to minister to them.

"I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." -J. Christ

Because your understanding of Israel is not the Israel of God.

But of course, you can settle the question right away.

Are Israel and the Church two separate bodies of believers, not to be identified as the same?

Quantrill
 
Because your understanding of Israel is not the Israel of God.

But of course, you can settle the question right away.

Are Israel and the Church two separate bodies of believers, not to be identified as the same?

Quantrill
The early church was mostly Jewish converts. However, it was God's intention that the whole of Israel become the church, thus he sent Jesus to the remnant of the house of Israel. Jesus sent the disciples to them as well. However, the persecution from the Roman church stifled the growth until the Reformation when the true church could come out of hiding. See Revelation 12.
 
The early church was mostly Jewish converts. However, it was God's intention that the whole of Israel become the church, thus he sent Jesus to the remnant of the house of Israel. Jesus sent the disciples to them as well. However, the persecution from the Roman church stifled the growth until the Reformation when the true church could come out of hiding. See Revelation 12.

Are Israel and the Church two separate bodies of believers, not to be identified as the same?

Quantrill
 
Are Israel and the Church two separate bodies of believers, not to be identified as the same?

Quantrill
The church is comprised of both the descendants of Israel and gentiles. However, I believe the "elect lady" will be all Israelites.
 
Where do you get that?

Quantrill
The "Jews" are One Tribe, &/or One "House" made up of 3 tribes being Judah (Yudah), Benjamin (Benyahmin), & Levi.

The "Jews" are a very small part of the remainder of "The Children of Israel(Yisrael).
 
Are Israel and the Church two separate bodies of believers, not to be identified as the same?

Quantrill
No,... All of the Believing Children of Israel (Yisreal), joined by the Believing Gentiles, is The "Church/Assembly/Quhal".
 
No, I don't reject what Paul says in the Book of (Ephesians). Give the chapter and verses of your claim and I will explain. But you need to explain first.

I literally read the Scripture. I see no reason not to. Christianity has not replaced Israel in the sense that Israel is now done away. Christianity has replaced Israel as a new Body of believers for the present time, but meant only for the present time. God is not done with Israel.

No. The time of 'Jacob's trouble' is the time of 'Israel's trouble'. Not the Gentiles. It is directed to the Jews, though the world will be affected also. As always is, the case with Israel and the world.

Quantrill
"Give the chapter and verses of your claim"

I Did >>> "Ephesians 2:, 3:, & 4: that the "Gentiles" will be joined to "The Commonwealth of Israel", and that there is only "One Body", & "One Faith"?" .

Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that once you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “uncircumcision” by that which is called “circumcision”, (in the flesh, made by hands);
Eph 2:12 that you were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.

Eph 3:6 that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of his promise in Christ Jesus through the Good News,

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all.


That "Body" per Eph. 2:11-13(And many more Scriptures), is "The Commonwealth of Israel",.... It is not "Judaism", Catholicism, nor "Christianity", & Absolutely not Islam.
 
Dan was/is excluded from the 144,000 but will be reconciled later.
Maybe,.... But where else in the Scriptures be they "Canonized/Un-Canonized" is written about Dan's Exclusion, & eventual reconciliation?
 
The Jews still follow the Mosaic law.
Mat 19:16 Behold, one came to him and said, “Good teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?”
Mat 19:17 He said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
 
The ten "lost" tribes carried the name of Israel, Judah did not. Modern day "Israel" is a misnomer and should still be called "Judah". The only reason Israel is 'lost' is that few are looking for him and most are happy that he (Israel) is lost. However, God knows exactly where Israel is and always has.
Greetings Woodznutz, Israel is present Today,..... They've just lost their Identity, & Don't know who they are, nor does the World.

A Clue of who Ephraim, & Manasseh are, are can be found in Genesis 48:8-22, & both have largely received those promises.
 
Ami don't know what that means. Salvation is an individual thing. Were going through the Tribulation because the NationS of Israel hav rejected God
That's Largely True, but, The "Tribulation"/ "Time of Yacob's Trouble"/ "Time of Trouble", ofd which all three are the samne event, will also fall upon all of Mankind.
It will Test The Believers for their Faith, & It will bring UnBelievers in to accepting The Messiah.
 
The Jews or anyone else can follow the law if they want to. The Law is only of value if God recognizes it. It may make men feel good but it does nothing in being accepted of God.

Quantrill
Mat 19:16 Behold, one came to him and said, “Good teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?”
Mat 19:17 He said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
Mat 19:18 He said to him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder.’ ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ ‘You shall not steal.’ ‘You shall not offer false testimony.’
Mat 19:19 ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ And, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”
Mat 19:20 The young man said to him, “All these things I have observed from my youth. What do I still lack?”
Mat 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”
 
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The church is comprised of both the descendants of Israel and gentiles. However, I believe the "elect lady" will be all Israelites.

That the Church is composed of both Jew and Gentile, yes. That doesn't make the Gentile in the Church Jews.

(Eph. 2:11-16) (Eph. 3:3-6)

Quantrill
 
Greetings Quantrill,

"Christianity" is made up of at least 30,000 widely different Sects, that largely follow the Blasphemous Teachings of Pagan Catholicism, in various degrees, ranging from keeping a First Day of the Week Sabbath, which is based upon the False "Good Friday to Easter Sunday Morning Resurrection, that Totally Ignores what The Messiah stated:

Mat 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and Pharisees answered, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”
Mat 12:39 But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, but no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet.
Mat 12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Constantine the Great's early "catholic church" denied that the Messiah was crucified on what can be called a Wednesday, & Rose from the Dead on the 7th day Sabbath. Catholicism then demanded that the False Resurrection Day, be made a "Weekly Memorial" that replaced the Commanded 7th Day Sabbath.

The Majority of "Christian churches", Honor this Lie Today.

"Christianity" honors the Repackaged, & Greatly Perfumed Pagan Feasts, such as Xmas, Easter, Halloween, etc.,that have replaced the Biblically Commanded Sabbath Feasts that The Messiah, & The hand picked Apostles, as well as the "Believers" that were put to death by Rome, practiced

"Christianity" demands the "Tithe", that was Commanded to be given to the Levite Priesthood, at The Temple.

"Christianity" Ignores The Simple, yet Astronomical Truth that Paul correctly stated!:

Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that once you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “uncircumcision” by that which is called “circumcision”, (in the flesh, made by hands);
Eph 2:12 that you were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.

Eph 3:6 that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of his promise in Christ Jesus through the Good News,

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all.

"Christian" Catholics, & Protestants, have many, many , many times "Made War Upon Each Other", meaning,.... They Failed to "Love their Brother", as The Messiah Commanded.

"Christianity" at least in America, began to accept Unrepentant Sodomites in their ranks, before "The Kenyan Imposter" POTUS Obama threatened to revoke the 501C Tax Exempt status of any "church" that refused "Gay Marriage",..... All of a sudden, "christian churches", in my area, & across America, Zealously welcomed their "Sodomite Brothers & Sisters', vs. losing their Riches! Astoundingly,...."Lord!" proclaiming Donald Trump after winning the support of the "christian Voters", then turned, sought, & received the Vote of "Sodomite Conservatives"! Sodomy is condemned in The Scriptures, nor will it be allowed in the Soon Coming Kingdom of Heaven.

There are many, many , many Scriptural, & Historical reasons why "christianity" is not "The Church/Assembly/or the Hebrew Quhal", stated by at least Paul, as well as The Patriarchs, The Prophets, The Messiah & His Apostles.

One should pay great heed to this.:


Mat 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’
Mat 7:23 Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’ :eek:

Well, if you don't believe what the Bible says, there is no need for me to prove anything by the Scripture. Are you saying you don't believe what Paul says? Or you do believe what Paul says?

And you said nothing of the Rapture.

Quantrill
 
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"Give the chapter and verses of your claim"

I Did >>> "Ephesians 2:, 3:, & 4: that the "Gentiles" will be joined to "The Commonwealth of Israel", and that there is only "One Body", & "One Faith"?" .

Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that once you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “uncircumcision” by that which is called “circumcision”, (in the flesh, made by hands);
Eph 2:12 that you were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.

Eph 3:6 that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of his promise in Christ Jesus through the Good News,

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all.


That "Body" per Eph. 2:11-13(And many more Scriptures), is "The Commonwealth of Israel",.... It is not "Judaism", Catholicism, nor "Christianity", & Absolutely not Islam.

The verses you give prove the Church is made up of both Jew and Gentile. (Eph. 2:15) "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances: for to make in himself of twain, one new man, so making peace."

That which is composed of the two, Jew and Gentile, is a new body, the Church.

The Gentiles were without Christ because they were alienated from the commonwealth of Israel in whom the covenants were made pertaining to Christ. The Gentiles are brought into the commonwealth of Israel which is located in the Covenants given them by God, which is based upon the Abrahamic covenant. (Gen. 12:1-3)

The Gentiles are brought into the commonwealth of Israel through being in Christ by faith. (Eph. 2:8) "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." (Eph. 2:13) "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

And being 'in Christ Jesus' moves the Gentile into the Body of Christ, which is composed of both Jew and Gentile, the new Body of believers. (Eph. 2:15-16) "...to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross...."

And that new man, that new body is called the Church, the Body of Christ. (1 Cor. 10:32) "Give no offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the Church of God:"

The making of this new body of believers does not do away with God's purpose for national Israel. It is simply a new body where God is calling out both Jew and Gentile, but mostly Gentile. Israel is on hold till God is ready to complete His purpose for her. (Rom. 11:25) "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Quantrill
 
Mat 19:16 Behold, one came to him and said, “Good teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?”
Mat 19:17 He said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
Mat 19:18 He said to him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder.’ ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ ‘You shall not steal.’ ‘You shall not offer false testimony.’
Mat 19:19 ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ And, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”
Mat 19:20 The young man said to him, “All these things I have observed from my youth. What do I still lack?”
Mat 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

And why did you quote these verses? Do you believe they prove the Law saves? Do you believe they prove we are still under the Law?

At this time the Jews were still under the Law. The young man was not sincere in his question to Jesus. And Christ revealed his insincerity. He called Christ good, but no one is good but God. But he didn't recognize Christ as God. Just 'good'.

He asked about 'what good thing' he can do to have eternal life. He wasn't looking for the 'faith' of Abraham. He was looking to do something to get eternal life. Christ told him you have the Law. Follow the commandments. Which no one can do because of their sin nature. The man deceived himself that he had kept all the law.

He asked, what do I still lack? And Christ hit him with the very thing he couldn't do because he was rich. Sell all you have, give it to the poor, and follow me? He could not sell his riches and could not follow Christ.

If one is looking for eternal life by doing good, you won't obtain it. The Law will always declare you guilty.

Quantrill
 

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