Zone1 Where in The Bible does it state that "Christians" will be "Raptured Up" before The Tribulation?

[Care4all]

Will this battle be spiritual warfare or will it be fought with AR-15s and AK-47s?

It would be funny to see Christians finally get some comeuppance against the Christ-haters. I'll have to make sure I have plenty of popcorn.

Christians are the ones who follow the antichrist in the Bible. The "Falling Away" apostasia of the Church coincides with the Man of Lawlessness, the Man of Sin, the Man of Perdition...the antichrist, being identified, by who these fallen Christians follow.....being Revealed....

The antichrist is not a non Christian... He has to be someone Christians follow, instead of the teachings of Christ.....while still claiming to be Christians imo...

2Thes 2:3-4

Tim 4:1

 

[Woodznutz]

From 1972 or '73, until 1990 I believed in the "Soul Sleep" doctrine but once I began to read these accounts I rather quickly concluded that Pastor General Herbert W. Armstrong and his son Garner Ted, were almost certainly terribly mis-underinformed regarding the State of the Dead!?

Isn't "soul sleep" based on scripture; "the dead know nothing" and "the spirit returns to God who gave it"?

 

[DennisPTate]

Isn't "soul sleep" based on scripture; "the dead know nothing" and "the spirit returns to God who gave it"?

Absolutely but "soul sleep" may be based on scriptures that were misunderstood due to the way that the English sentences were translated from Hebrew, or Aramaic, or Greek or Chaldean, [in the case of some chapters in Daniel].

 

[Quantrill]

Christians are the ones who follow the antichrist in the Bible. The "Falling Away" apostasia of the Church coincides with the Man of Lawlessness, the Man of Sin, the Man of Perdition...the antichrist, being identified, by who these fallen Christians follow.....being Revealed....

The antichrist is not a non Christian... He has to be someone Christians follow, instead of the teachings of Christ.....while still claiming to be Christians imo...

2Thes 2:3-4

Tim 4:1

(2 Thess. 2:3-4) doesn't say that. Neither does (1 Tim. 4:1).

There is a falling away of the Church in the latter days. It doesn't mean the anti-christ will be a Christian. He will be anything but Christian.

Quantrill

 

[MostBoringManInTheWorld]

I think the end times are going to be more of a self-fulfilling prophecy than anything else.

There are several different groups in different sects and perhaps even different religions trying to make it happen.

I saw the seeds of that in the church I went to over 20 years ago.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

No, the scriptures were terribly misunderstood even by sincere readers who were totally thrown off by the KJV translation of the scriptures that attempted to sound authoritative, even if they did not fully understand the original Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic or Chaldean words in the original documents that they were translating from.
King Solomon, in the English language translation of the scriptures, makes statements that would extremely easy to misunderstand.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

DennisPTate said:


No, the scriptures were terribly misunderstood even by sincere readers who were totally thrown off by the KJV translation of the scriptures that attempted to sound authoritative, even if they did not fully understand the original Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic or Chaldean words in the original documents that they were translating from.
King Solomon, in the English language translation of the scriptures, makes statements that would extremely easy to misunderstand.

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What is "Misunderstood" In My Belief Dennis, is Your Interpretation of The Scriptures. Read these Scriptures.

To Deny them, simply put,....... Is a Denial of The Scriptures, as well as The Creator/Messiah. That "path" Dennis, will stop One from entering The Kingdom of Heaven.

And, let's concentrate on the Original Topic :

Psa 88:4 I am counted among those who go down into the pit. I am like a man who has no help,
Psa 88:5 set apart among the dead, like the slain who lie in the grave, whom you remember no more. They are cut off from your hand.

Psa 88:10 Do you show wonders to the dead? Do the departed spirits rise up and praise you? Selah.
Psa 88:11 Is your loving kindness declared in the grave? Or your faithfulness in Destruction?
Psa 88:12 Are your wonders made known in the dark? Or your righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

Psa 115:17 The dead don’t praise Yah, neither any who go down into silence;
Psa 115:18 But we will bless Yah, from this time forward and forever more. Praise Yah!
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Psa 89:48 What man is he who shall live and not see death, who shall deliver his soul from the power of Sheol? Selah.

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Isa 38:15 What will I say? He has both spoken to me, and himself has done it. I will walk carefully all my years because of the anguish of my soul.
Isa 38:16 Lord, men live by these things; and my spirit finds life in all of them: you restore me, and cause me to live.
Isa 38:17 Behold, for peace I had great anguish, but you have in love for my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption; for you have cast all my sins behind your back.
Isa 38:18 For Sheol can’t praise you. Death can’t celebrate you. Those who go down into the pit can’t hope for your truth.
Isa 38:19 The living, the living, he shall praise you, as I do today. The father shall make known your truth to the children.
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Act 7:59 They stoned Stephen as he called out, saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!”
Act 7:60 He kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, “Lord, don’t hold this sin against them!” When he had said this, he fell asleep.
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Luk 8:49 While he still spoke, one from the ruler of the synagogue’s house came, saying to him, “Your daughter is dead. Don’t trouble the Teacher.”
Luk 8:50 But Jesus hearing it, answered him, “Don’t be afraid. Only believe, and she will be healed.”
Luk 8:51 When he came to the house, he didn’t allow anyone to enter in, except Peter, John, James, the father of the child, and her mother.
Luk 8:52 All were weeping and mourning her, but he said, “Don’t weep. She isn’t dead, but sleeping.”
Luk 8:53 They were ridiculing him, knowing that she was dead.
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Job 7:21 Why do you not pardon my disobedience, and take away my iniquity? For now shall I lie down in the dust. You will seek me diligently, but I shall not be.”
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Job 10:18 “‘Why, then, have you brought me out of the womb? I wish I had given up the spirit, and no eye had seen me.
Job 10:19 I should have been as though I had not been. I should have been carried from the womb to the grave.
Job 10:20 Aren’t my days few? Cease then. Leave me alone, that I may find a little comfort,
Job 10:21 before I go where I shall not return from, to the land of darkness and of the shadow of death;
Job 10:22 the land dark as midnight, of the shadow of death, without any order, where the light is as midnight.’”
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Job 11:20 But the eyes of the wicked shall fail. They shall have no way to flee. Their hope shall be the giving up of the spirit.”
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Job 14:10 But man dies, and is laid low. Yes, man gives up the spirit, and where is he?
Job 14:11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the river wastes and dries up,
Job 14:12 so man lies down and doesn’t rise. Until the heavens are no more, they shall not awake, nor be roused out of their sleep.
Job 14:13 “Oh that you would hide me in Sheol,that you would keep me secret, until your wrath is past, that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me!
Job 14:14 If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my warfare would I wait, until my release should come.
Job 14:15 You would call, and I would answer you. You would have a desire to the work of your hands.

Job 14:21 His sons come to honor, and he doesn’t know it. They are brought low, but he doesn’t perceive it of them.
Job 14:22 But his flesh on him has pain, and his soul within him mourns.”
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1Ma 2:62 And be not afraid of the words of a sinful man; for his glory shall be dung and worms.
1Ma 2:63 To-day he shall be lifted up, and tomorrow he shall in no wise be found, because he is returned to his dust, and his thought is perished.
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Sir 17:27 Who will give praise to the Most High in the grave, Instead of them which live and return thanks?
Sir 17:28 Thanksgiving perishes from the dead, as from one that is not: He that is in life and health will praise the Lord.
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Gen_47:30 but when I sleep with my fathers, you shall carry me out of Egypt, and bury me in their burying place.” Joseph said, “I will do as you have said.”

2Sa_7:12 When your days are fulfilled, and you sleep with your fathers, I will set up your offspring after you, who will proceed out of your body, and I will establish his kingdom.

Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, sleep in glory, everyone in his own house.
Isa 14:19 But you are cast away from your tomb like an abominable branch, clothed with the slain, who are thrust through with the sword, who go down to the stones of the pit; like a dead body trodden under foot.

Dan_12:2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

1Co_15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,

Eph_5:14 Therefore he says, “Awake, you who sleep, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”

1Th_5:10 who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

2Es 2:31 Remember your children that sleep, for I shall bring them out of the secret places of the earth, and show mercy to them: for I am merciful, says the Lord Almighty.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Christians are the ones who follow the antichrist in the Bible

Many will. Not all. The WORLD, however, will

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

Where did it say that the Messiah would not come just once, but twice as Christians await his return?

Granted, we are given many clues, like Isaiah 53 stating he would be martyred for our sins.

Greetings Votto,

The Messiah's First Coming, was as a "Sacrificial Lamb", that was put to death so as to take away the "Sins", of Yisrael, & Mankind He also died so that He could remarry The House of Yisrael, whom He had Divorced. Per The Torah,. A Yisraelite that Divorces his wife, can not remarry, her, nor another, until the "Divorced Wife Dies".:

Jer 3:6 Moreover, Yahweh said to me in the days of Josiah the king, “Have you seen that which backsliding Israel has done? She has gone up on every high mountain and under every green tree, and has played the prostitute there.
Jer 3:7 I said after she had done all these things, ‘She will return to me;’ but she didn’t return; and her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
Jer 3:8 I saw when, for this very cause, that backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce, yet treacherous Judah, her sister, had no fear; but she also went and played the prostitute.
Jer 3:9 Because she took her prostitution lightly, the land was polluted, and she committed adultery with stones and with wood.
Jer 3:10 Yet for all this her treacherous sister, Judah, has not returned to me with her whole heart, but only in pretense,” says Yahweh.
Jer 3:11 Yahweh said to me, “Backsliding Israel has shown herself more righteous than treacherous Judah.
Deu 24:1 When a man takes a wife and marries her, then it shall be, if she finds no favor in his eyes, because he has found some unseemly thing in her, that he shall write her a certificate of divorce, and put it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Deu 24:2 When she has departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife.
Deu 24:3 If the latter husband hates her, and write her a certificate of divorce, and puts it in her hand, and sends her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, who took her to be his wife;
Deu 24:4 her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before Yahweh. You shall not cause the land to sin, which Yahweh your God gives you for an inheritance.
But that is another topic.

The Second Coming of The Messiah, is A One Time Event, with Him Coming as a "Warrior King", who will gather His "Bride" in the air (The Resurrection), & return to Earth, to make War upon the "Little Horn"/"Assyrian"/"Antichrist", and after defeating them,.... Establish His Eternal Kingdom here on Earth.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

Christians are the ones who follow the antichrist in the Bible. The "Falling Away" apostasia of the Church coincides with the Man of Lawlessness, the Man of Sin, the Man of Perdition...the antichrist, being identified, by who these fallen Christians follow.....being Revealed....

The antichrist is not a non Christian... He has to be someone Christians follow, instead of the teachings of Christ.....while still claiming to be Christians imo...

2Thes 2:3-4

Tim 4:1

Greetings Care4all,

"Christians are the ones who follow the antichrist in the Bible."

I disagree somewhat,......"Christianity" with it's at least 30,000 widely different Sects, will definitely be represented, but also,..... There will be "Jews", Muslims, Hindu, Atheists, Satanists, Wiccan, & more.

Simply put,...... All that refuse to totally accept "The Way" of The Messiah, & be willing to Die for it, will be included,... In My Belief.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

I think the end times are going to be more of a self-fulfilling prophecy than anything else.

There are several different groups in different sects and perhaps even different religions trying to make it happen.

I saw the seeds of that in the church I went to over 20 years ago.

Greetings Mostboring,

That is True, of the Muslims, especially the Shia sect, with the "Twelvers", & Their sought after "Mahdi". They deeply believe that the World must be in a condition of Unprecedented Horror, & Catastrophe, which allegedly is to inspire the "Mahdi" to come, and make War upon the Unbelievers.

The Talmudic "Jews", & "Kaballahists", believe practically the same, but apply different terms to their "Savior/Warrior King".

 

[Quantrill]

Many will. Not all. The WORLD, however, will

No they won't. When the anti-christ is revealed, the Rapture has already taken place. There will be no Christians on earth.

And those that are saved afterward, be they Jews or Gentiles, will most likely be killed. Save the 144,000 Jews. There is nothing to indicate these believers follow the anti-christ.

Several major doctrines have to be understood in the Bible in order to come to a right conclusion of the time of the Rapture.

1.) The Second Coming of Christ

2.) The Church

3.) Israel

4.) The Tribulation period

Misunderstanding any of these will affect ones view and timing of the Rapture.

Quantrill

 

[Woodznutz]

Save the 144,000 Jews.

Quantrill

Only 12,000 Jews.

 

[Quantrill]

Only 12,000 Jews.

Where do you get that?

Quantrill

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

No they won't. When the anti-christ is revealed, the Rapture has already taken place. There will be no Christians on earth.

And those that are saved afterward, be they Jews or Gentiles, will most likely be killed. Save the 144,000 Jews. There is nothing to indicate these believers follow the anti-christ.

Several major doctrines have to be understood in the Bible in order to come to a right conclusion of the time of the Rapture.

1.) The Second Coming of Christ

2.) The Church

3.) Israel

4.) The Tribulation period

Misunderstanding any of these will affect ones view and timing of the Rapture.

Quantrill

Greetings Quantrill,

"Christianity" is made up of at least 30,000 widely different Sects, that largely follow the Blasphemous Teachings of Pagan Catholicism, in various degrees, ranging from keeping a First Day of the Week Sabbath, which is based upon the False "Good Friday to Easter Sunday Morning Resurrection, that Totally Ignores what The Messiah stated:

Mat 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and Pharisees answered, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”
Mat 12:39 But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, but no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet.
Mat 12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Constantine the Great's early "catholic church" denied that the Messiah was crucified on what can be called a Wednesday, & Rose from the Dead on the 7th day Sabbath. Catholicism then demanded that the False Resurrection Day, be made a "Weekly Memorial" that replaced the Commanded 7th Day Sabbath.

The Majority of "Christian churches", Honor this Lie Today.

"Christianity" honors the Repackaged, & Greatly Perfumed Pagan Feasts, such as Xmas, Easter, Halloween, etc.,that have replaced the Biblically Commanded Sabbath Feasts that The Messiah, & The hand picked Apostles, as well as the "Believers" that were put to death by Rome, practiced

"Christianity" demands the "Tithe", that was Commanded to be given to the Levite Priesthood, at The Temple.

"Christianity" Ignores The Simple, yet Astronomical Truth that Paul correctly stated!:

Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that once you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “uncircumcision” by that which is called “circumcision”, (in the flesh, made by hands);
Eph 2:12 that you were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.

Eph 3:6 that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of his promise in Christ Jesus through the Good News,

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all.

"Christian" Catholics, & Protestants, have many, many , many times "Made War Upon Each Other", meaning,.... They Failed to "Love their Brother", as The Messiah Commanded.

"Christianity" at least in America, began to accept Unrepentant Sodomites in their ranks, before "The Kenyan Imposter" POTUS Obama threatened to revoke the 501C Tax Exempt status of any "church" that refused "Gay Marriage",..... All of a sudden, "christian churches", in my area, & across America, Zealously welcomed their "Sodomite Brothers & Sisters', vs. losing their Riches! Astoundingly,...."Lord!" proclaiming Donald Trump after winning the support of the "christian Voters", then turned, sought, & received the Vote of "Sodomite Conservatives"! Sodomy is condemned in The Scriptures, nor will it be allowed in the Soon Coming Kingdom of Heaven.

There are many, many , many Scriptural, & Historical reasons why "christianity" is not "The Church/Assembly/or the Hebrew Quhal", stated by at least Paul, as well as The Patriarchs, The Prophets, The Messiah & His Apostles.

One should pay great heed to this.:

Mat 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’
Mat 7:23 Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

No they won't. When the anti-christ is revealed, the Rapture has already taken place. There will be no Christians on earth.

And those that are saved afterward, be they Jews or Gentiles, will most likely be killed. Save the 144,000 Jews. There is nothing to indicate these believers follow the anti-christ.

Several major doctrines have to be understood in the Bible in order to come to a right conclusion of the time of the Rapture.

1.) The Second Coming of Christ

2.) The Church

3.) Israel

4.) The Tribulation period

Misunderstanding any of these will affect ones view and timing of the Rapture.

Quantrill

After I put that "Screaming Emojii" at the end of that sentence, I couldn't keep typing, with out moving the emojii. LOL!

Quantril,..... Do You reject Paul stating in Ephesians 2:, 3:, & 4: that the "Gentiles" will be joined to "The Commonwealth of Israel", and that there is only "One Body", & "One Faith"?

I'm asking this cuz' the "False, catholic oriented Teaching", that "Christianity has replaced The Children of Israel", which is Absolutely not Scriptural,...... Holds one back from literally reading the Truth, that is found in both Testaments.

For instance,..... "The Time of Jacob's Trouble" (Jer. 30 falls upon All of the Children of Yisrael, as well as the "Gentiles", meaning that their will not be any "Rapturing up", so as to sit out the "Tribulation".

 

[Woodznutz]

Where do you get that?

Quantrill

There will be 12,000 from each tribe except Dan. Joseph will be represented by Joseph (Ephraim) and Manasseh. Rev. 7:4.

It isn't known why Dan is missing from this group but will have a "gate" in new Jerusalem. Interesting is that Manasseh will not have a gate in new Jerusalem, likely because of the shame his people brought on God.

Many commentators, who should know better, erroneously believe that all Israelites were Jews.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Many commentators, who should know better, erroneously believe that all Israelites were Jews

Because the other tribes (other than Judah) gave up the identifying sign that they are God's Chosen

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

Sorry about that "Smiley Face" in My Post #36, It's not meant to be there, & unless I'm missing something, I can't edit it outa there.

..........
Revelation is confusing, and even conflicting with other "Canonized", & "Un-Canonized" Works. Matter of Fact, Martin Luther "The Father of the Reformation" didn't want to include the Book of Revelation in his Translation, but he was made to by his German Protectors.

Joseph itself was not a tribe, and it speaks of the Two Tribes of Manasseh, & Ephraim.

It's True that Dan is not listed, & yet, Rev.21:10-12 states that the Twelve Tribes will be present.

And No Where is it written that the tribe of Dan will be excluded from The Kingdom of Heaven.

Rev 21:10 He carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, as if it were a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12 having a great and high wall; having twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

Because the other tribes (other than Judah) gave up the identifying sign that they are God's Chosen

That is Absolutely True Carl!

The Ten Tribes of the "House of Israel" (Yisrael), have not only lost their Identity, but they are not even now located in in Israel (Yisrael).

As far as the the three Tribes of the "House of Judah" (Yudah),.... The "Jews",.... The Majority of their Political & Religious Leaders Falsely proclaim that they are All of Yisrael.