Where I'm at

[brewerboy]

I was born and raised a Methodist. I was "confirmed" in the Methodist tradition. Once I came to the age of consent, I started to question my Christian up-bringing, much to the disappointment of much of my family. I always had a lot of questions about this God person, and my pastor and youth pastor could never answer them in a way that satisfied me. I guess I figured that if these guys had spent their lives studying that damn book couldnt convince me, I couldnt really convince myself outside of actually experiencing God myself. Needless to say, I'm an atheist, so that has yet to happen. I very much doubt that it ever will. Plus, I take a look around me and wonder "What proof is there of God"...I mean, we're relying on a book written 2,000 years ago that was meant to convince goat herders, blacksmiths, and fishermen that the holy spirit impregnated a women. Seriously.

I dont believe in luck. Its just as much a mental crutch as belief in God. To me, its foolish to think that theres some force that decides "Hey Brewer, todays your day! Enjoy!"

I think belief in Karma is another load of bullshit. To think that theres some cosmic scale of justice that balances ones good and bad deeds, and essentially deals out circumstances in ones life is just as foolish as a belief in God. When I hear people say "I hope Karma comes back and bites you in the ass!" or something of the sort, I laugh in their faces. Its utterly retarded.

Heres what I DO believe in: CHANCE. Its a mathematics. Plain and simple. If I put one single bullet in a revolver and spin the chambers then point it at my head, theres a 1 in 6 chance that I'm gonna blow my brains out. We can all see the consequences or rewards of taking chances.

If anyone has ever read "For Whom the Bell Tolls" I guess I agree with Robert Jordans outlook on life. We're human beings interacting with human beings. We put ourselves in situations/circumstances and maybe said circumstances will work out for us, maybe they wont. Again, its chance. It all comes down the individual and the choices they make.

I also believe in coincidence to a degree. Its coincidence that I may run into an old buddy I've been wondering about. Its coincidence that I run into my bitch of an ex with my new hottie.

Chance, coincidence, and myself. Thats all I believe in.

There is no God, no Heaven, no Hell. No Pearly Gates guarded by Saint Peter and no boat-man waiting to take me across the river on my way to hell.

We die, we're put into the ground in one way or another, and thats it.

Thats where I'm at.

 

[Care4all]

If your little baby that you love and adore so much, as you have said in other posts, became very ill and whatever medicine available for him was not working and he died....would you or your wife think, "that's it" with him and not believe or hope that there is a "there after" and that some day, you would meet up with him again in the Spiritual world?

Or if your son were very ill and medicine was not working to heal him, would you pray to God to please help him and please make the medicine work as it should, to save him?

care

 

[brewerboy]

If your little baby that you love and adore so much, as you have said in other posts, became very ill and whatever medicine available for him was not working and he died....would you or your wife think, "that's it" with him and not believe or hope that there is a "there after" and that some day, you would meet up with him again in the Spiritual world?

Or if your son were very ill and medicine was not working to heal him, would you pray to God to please help him and please make the medicine work as it should, to save him?

care

I dont believe that there is an afterlife, so yes, I would say thats it. I wont see him again.

And no I wouldnt pray. Why would I when I dont believe in God? I would trust that the doctors caring for him knew what they were doing and hope for the best.

 

[Care4all]

If your little baby that you love and adore so much, as you have said in other posts, became very ill and whatever medicine available for him was not working and he died....would you or your wife think, "that's it" with him and not believe or hope that there is a "there after" and that some day, you would meet up with him again in the Spiritual world?

Or if your son were very ill and medicine was not working to heal him, would you pray to God to please help him and please make the medicine work as it should, to save him?

care

I dont believe that there is an afterlife, so yes, I would say thats it. I wont see him again.

And no I wouldnt pray. Why would I when I dont believe in God? I would trust that the doctors caring for him knew what they were doing and hope for the best.

ok, I was just wondering.... if the situation were dire, if some sort of instinct would bring you to pray....that's all....

Care

 

[brewerboy]

If your little baby that you love and adore so much, as you have said in other posts, became very ill and whatever medicine available for him was not working and he died....would you or your wife think, "that's it" with him and not believe or hope that there is a "there after" and that some day, you would meet up with him again in the Spiritual world?

Or if your son were very ill and medicine was not working to heal him, would you pray to God to please help him and please make the medicine work as it should, to save him?

care

I dont believe that there is an afterlife, so yes, I would say thats it. I wont see him again.

And no I wouldnt pray. Why would I when I dont believe in God? I would trust that the doctors caring for him knew what they were doing and hope for the best.

ok, I was just wondering.... if the situation were dire, if some sort of instinct would bring you to pray....that's all....

Care

I hear ya.

Again, I'll be a born again Christian when God or an angel comes to me and proves the existence of an afterlife.

(insert Allah or whatever suits you in the place of "God", I care not)

 

[Care4all]

I dont believe that there is an afterlife, so yes, I would say thats it. I wont see him again.

And no I wouldnt pray. Why would I when I dont believe in God? I would trust that the doctors caring for him knew what they were doing and hope for the best.

ok, I was just wondering.... if the situation were dire, if some sort of instinct would bring you to pray....that's all....

Care

I hear ya.

Again, I'll be a born again Christian when God or an angel comes to me and proves the existence of an afterlife.

(insert Allah or whatever suits you in the place of "God", I care not)

neither did saul/paul on the road to damascus....so, ya never know! and that's how i see it, since we are being all honest with our thoughts!

 

[brewerboy]

ok, I was just wondering.... if the situation were dire, if some sort of instinct would bring you to pray....that's all....

Care

I hear ya.

Again, I'll be a born again Christian when God or an angel comes to me and proves the existence of an afterlife.

(insert Allah or whatever suits you in the place of "God", I care not)

neither did saul/paul on the road to damascus....so, ya never know! and that's how i see it, since we are being all honest with our thoughts!

I have no clue what story you're referring to. I tried reading the Bible, but it was too much for me.

 

[Care4all]

I hear ya.

Again, I'll be a born again Christian when God or an angel comes to me and proves the existence of an afterlife.

(insert Allah or whatever suits you in the place of "God", I care not)

neither did saul/paul on the road to damascus....so, ya never know! and that's how i see it, since we are being all honest with our thoughts!

I have no clue what story you're referring to. I tried reading the Bible, but it was too much for me.

saul, was killing and persecuting new found christians, on his travels he was struck/ blinded, then a voice came to him and asked him, ''saul, why are you persecuting me?'' from jesus...

when his blindness left him, saul was renamed Paul and became a believer in Christ and also an author of many of the books/epistles in the new testament of the bible.

 

[brewerboy]

Thanks for the bedtime story Care

No disrespect.

 

[Care4all]

Thanks for the bedtime story Care

No disrespect.

hahahahaha! well, i tried to keep it as short and sweet as i could!!!!


now....good night, you silly goose!

care

 

[Amanda]

I was born and raised a Methodist. I was "confirmed" in the Methodist tradition. Once I came to the age of consent, I started to question my Christian up-bringing, much to the disappointment of much of my family. I always had a lot of questions about this God person, and my pastor and youth pastor could never answer them in a way that satisfied me. I guess I figured that if these guys had spent their lives studying that damn book couldnt convince me, I couldnt really convince myself outside of actually experiencing God myself. Needless to say, I'm an atheist, so that has yet to happen. I very much doubt that it ever will. Plus, I take a look around me and wonder "What proof is there of God"...I mean, we're relying on a book written 2,000 years ago that was meant to convince goat herders, blacksmiths, and fishermen that the holy spirit impregnated a women. Seriously.

I dont believe in luck. Its just as much a mental crutch as belief in God. To me, its foolish to think that theres some force that decides "Hey Brewer, todays your day! Enjoy!"

I think belief in Karma is another load of bullshit. To think that theres some cosmic scale of justice that balances ones good and bad deeds, and essentially deals out circumstances in ones life is just as foolish as a belief in God. When I hear people say "I hope Karma comes back and bites you in the ass!" or something of the sort, I laugh in their faces. Its utterly retarded.

Heres what I DO believe in: CHANCE. Its a mathematics. Plain and simple. If I put one single bullet in a revolver and spin the chambers then point it at my head, theres a 1 in 6 chance that I'm gonna blow my brains out. We can all see the consequences or rewards of taking chances.

If anyone has ever read "For Whom the Bell Tolls" I guess I agree with Robert Jordans outlook on life. We're human beings interacting with human beings. We put ourselves in situations/circumstances and maybe said circumstances will work out for us, maybe they wont. Again, its chance. It all comes down the individual and the choices they make.

I also believe in coincidence to a degree. Its coincidence that I may run into an old buddy I've been wondering about. Its coincidence that I run into my bitch of an ex with my new hottie.

Chance, coincidence, and myself. Thats all I believe in.

There is no God, no Heaven, no Hell. No Pearly Gates guarded by Saint Peter and no boat-man waiting to take me across the river on my way to hell.

We die, we're put into the ground in one way or another, and thats it.

Thats where I'm at.

That seems like a sad place to be.

I don't think any of the worlds religions get it right, but that doesn't mean I have to reject God because there isn't a perfect religion. I see God everyday and we talk often. I know it's hard because there was a time we didn't speak, but if you go outside and look around I bet you can see him too. Sometime I guess it takes time and a lot of reflecting but God is there and he wants you to feel his love. Give it a try sometime, what can it hurt?

 

[Agnapostate]

That's interesting, brewer. I used to be an Old Testament Reconstructionist; I supported a Christian world monarchy and theocracy, execution of sinners, etc. And I was amongst evangelicals while I believed this. My mind was excessively logical for Christianity even then, but I tried to justify it with two things: the statistical improbability of life forming by itself on Earth (which had been exaggerated by the church), and Pascal's Wager, which I didn't yet know the name for but had thought of independently. Long story short, after a now infamous tenure involving about twelve suspensions, I was finally expelled from my evangelical Christian school, part of the reason for which being that I brought copies of both The Origin of Species and The Da Vinci Code. I kept going to church for some time after, but was kicked out of youth services when I brought a National Geographic that was about discovered fossils evidencing evolution in progress and a Catholic Bible.

Sometimes I wish I could still believe what I did (I still like the idea of being a liberation theologist), but reason points me elsewhere.

 

[BrokenAngel]

I was born and raised a Methodist. I was "confirmed" in the Methodist tradition. Once I came to the age of consent, I started to question my Christian up-bringing, much to the disappointment of much of my family. I always had a lot of questions about this God person, and my pastor and youth pastor could never answer them in a way that satisfied me. I guess I figured that if these guys had spent their lives studying that damn book couldnt convince me, I couldnt really convince myself outside of actually experiencing God myself. Needless to say, I'm an atheist, so that has yet to happen. I very much doubt that it ever will. Plus, I take a look around me and wonder "What proof is there of God"...I mean, we're relying on a book written 2,000 years ago that was meant to convince goat herders, blacksmiths, and fishermen that the holy spirit impregnated a women. Seriously.

I dont believe in luck. Its just as much a mental crutch as belief in God. To me, its foolish to think that theres some force that decides "Hey Brewer, todays your day! Enjoy!"

I think belief in Karma is another load of bullshit. To think that theres some cosmic scale of justice that balances ones good and bad deeds, and essentially deals out circumstances in ones life is just as foolish as a belief in God. When I hear people say "I hope Karma comes back and bites you in the ass!" or something of the sort, I laugh in their faces. Its utterly retarded.

Heres what I DO believe in: CHANCE. Its a mathematics. Plain and simple. If I put one single bullet in a revolver and spin the chambers then point it at my head, theres a 1 in 6 chance that I'm gonna blow my brains out. We can all see the consequences or rewards of taking chances.

If anyone has ever read "For Whom the Bell Tolls" I guess I agree with Robert Jordans outlook on life. We're human beings interacting with human beings. We put ourselves in situations/circumstances and maybe said circumstances will work out for us, maybe they wont. Again, its chance. It all comes down the individual and the choices they make.

I also believe in coincidence to a degree. Its coincidence that I may run into an old buddy I've been wondering about. Its coincidence that I run into my bitch of an ex with my new hottie.

Chance, coincidence, and myself. Thats all I believe in.

There is no God, no Heaven, no Hell. No Pearly Gates guarded by Saint Peter and no boat-man waiting to take me across the river on my way to hell.

We die, we're put into the ground in one way or another, and thats it.

Thats where I'm at.

I completely understand where you are coming from. That was my basic story almost exactly but I was raised Luthern.

Being a teenager or a young adult in general causes you to need a lot of proof in life. Everything from your childhood has been proven to be a lie so why not this God person? I mean we lost the Easter Bunny and I was heart broken when I realized there couldn't possibly be a Nessie in Loch Ness. I actually think I cried that day. The thing is though, the more you step back and look at it the more you realize that the scientific explinations require just as much "faith" to believe.

When a fossil is dug up it is typically no more than a couple of bones. From those bones and from our knowledge of animal design we reconstruct a lot of ideas we aren't positive on. There are VERY few complete skeletons found of Dinosaurs or any other prehistoric animal. A good example of what I mean is this Ida fossil. Granted the make up of the bone structure might be a little different but this thumb stuff is non-sense. Have you ever looked at a lemur's foot? It has a toe sticking out to the side that looks like a thumb as is. If anything this fossil might just be a different species of lemur that has since died out but it is being praised as the missing link. How much faith does it require to believe that a young lemur with an odd bone structure is our missing link?

Guess my point in this is that if you have to believe in something that requires your faith to make valid why not believe in the thing that rewards you for being a decent human being? It goes back to one of my favorite phrases, "I would rather believe there is a God and be proven right than live my life as if there is no God and be proven wrong." It just hit a point for me where I not only felt the love and warmth I did as a child for God but that I realized.. the only way I can lose is to say there is no God. Either way I am the same person. It is just that now I have a little more love in my heart and I don't look as crazy when I start mumbling about my problems to no one because I can just say I'm praying.

 

[Agnapostate]

Guess my point in this is that if you have to believe in something that requires your faith to make valid why not believe in the thing that rewards you for being a decent human being? It goes back to one of my favorite phrases, "I would rather believe there is a God and be proven right than live my life as if there is no God and be proven wrong." It just hit a point for me where I not only felt the love and warmth I did as a child for God but that I realized.. the only way I can lose is to say there is no God. Either way I am the same person. It is just that now I have a little more love in my heart and I don't look as crazy when I start mumbling about my problems to no one because I can just say I'm praying.

Pascal's Wager again, though it can't be supported as coherent because legitimate belief cannot be forced.

 

[BrokenAngel]

Guess my point in this is that if you have to believe in something that requires your faith to make valid why not believe in the thing that rewards you for being a decent human being? It goes back to one of my favorite phrases, "I would rather believe there is a God and be proven right than live my life as if there is no God and be proven wrong." It just hit a point for me where I not only felt the love and warmth I did as a child for God but that I realized.. the only way I can lose is to say there is no God. Either way I am the same person. It is just that now I have a little more love in my heart and I don't look as crazy when I start mumbling about my problems to no one because I can just say I'm praying.

Pascal's Wager again, though it can't be supported as coherent because legitimate belief cannot be forced.

You are right. True belief can't be forced. As someone who came to a decision, a realization, and a personal awakening of sorts it has just become a true statement to me. I posed the point that if your choices give you a 50-50 chance of either having black or going to an afterlife why would you take the risk? It isn't a statement meant to change someone's mind or force them to accept what I feel is true or right but rather food for thought and something to chew on.

I admitted to losing my faith and did so for.. I want to say 10 or 15 years. I hated my family for forcing me into the pews anyways and I lost a number of friends who kept badgering me to choose religion over, what felt like obvious reality. It took my pregnancy and my son to bring me back into my faith and even now I don't belong to an organized religion but rather just know I have faith. I read my son Bible stories and will raise him to have as much magic in his life as I had in my own as a child. I will also protect him from the rest of his family if he chooses to not believe in God as he grows older.

If you believe in God then you have to recognize the beauty in free will and the right of every human being to use it. We have many sheeple in today's society so as long as you feel you are right and you have thought your feelings through then the more power to you. I just still expect pleasant debate from time to time on why.

 

[editec]

Intellectually, I do not believe in life after death.

Emotionally, and thanks to have drowned and experiencing that near death sequence of events, I have no choice but to believe that there's more to being than what we can see now.

 

[Smartt33]

I dont believe that there is an afterlife, so yes, I would say thats it. I wont see him again.

And no I wouldnt pray. Why would I when I dont believe in God? I would trust that the doctors caring for him knew what they were doing and hope for the best.

ok, I was just wondering.... if the situation were dire, if some sort of instinct would bring you to pray....that's all....

Care

I hear ya.

Again, I'll be a born again Christian when God or an angel comes to me and proves the existence of an afterlife.

(insert Allah or whatever suits you in the place of "God", I care not)

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

 

[We Are They]

Intellectually, I do not believe in life after death.

Emotionally, and thanks to have drowned and experiencing that near death sequence of events, I have no choice but to believe that there's more to being than what we can see now.

So you believe and you don't believe at the same time. Is that like being smart and stupid at the same time?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

If your little baby that you love and adore so much, as you have said in other posts, became very ill and whatever medicine available for him was not working and he died....would you or your wife think, "that's it" with him and not believe or hope that there is a "there after" and that some day, you would meet up with him again in the Spiritual world?

Or if your son were very ill and medicine was not working to heal him, would you pray to God to please help him and please make the medicine work as it should, to save him?

care

I have a friend whose son suddenly died at 17 months of age. She's an atheist. She doesn't believe they will ever be reunited. She CAN'T believe it. It isn't a choice. Its like
choosing to believe that the sky is plaid. If you don't see it that way, then you can't believe it that way either.

I don't really understand the praying thing. Is it that God doesn't hear your every thought so you have to pray to get them across to Him, or does it just make your thoughts louder? Is it a way of getting His attention? If God is omniscient and omnipotent, wouldn't He already know what was going to happen? Wouldn't He already know you were going to pray and what you wanted? Wouldn't He have already made up His mind about the matter long before it ever happened and you ever prayed?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Intellectually, I do not believe in life after death.

Emotionally, and thanks to have drowned and experiencing that near death sequence of events, I have no choice but to believe that there's more to being than what we can see now.

You have a lot of credibility with me, editec, and I believe you in this matter. I'm interested in what you experienced when you drowned. Would you mind describing your experience?