Zone1 Where does atheist morality come from?

[hjmick]

Christian’s have this condescending opinion that only they are capable of behaving morally

Atheists have the same conscience, desire to do good things, golden rule as Christians

They just don’t need God to act that way

And their morality is born of fear, unlike the morality of an atheist.

 

[pknopp]

Do you know him personally?

I didn't know Jim Jones personally either.

I am familiar with his teachings though.

 

[ding]

And their morality is born of fear, unlike the morality of an atheist.

Incorrect. You guys make a much bigger deal out of heaven and hell than Catholics do. It's an anti-intellectual argument that isn't supported by behaviors of Christians themselves.

Not to mention this is a textbook example of the dunning effect. You might as well be comparing your favorite football team to your archnemesis football team. No way you'll be objective about that.

Logically, atheists believe the only thing that exists is the material world. As such the satisfaction of material needs and primitive instincts is all that matters to a materialist like an atheist. So whenever you hear an atheist talking about the higher aspects of humans, like morals for the sake of being moral, they might as well be a lip service paying Christian.

 

[ding]

I didn't know Jim Jones personally either.

I am familiar with his teachings though.

Funny that you would bring up Jim Jones when asked about Joel Osteen. I know a little bit about Jim. He was an atheist and a socialist. And as near as I can tell he was crazy.

My point about asking if you knew Joel Osteen personally is judging a person without really knowing that person - especially if you aren't being objective - is fraught with potential error.

It's that whole do unto others as you would have them do unto you thingee.

 

[pknopp]

Funny that you would bring up Jim Jones when asked about Joel Osteen. I know a little bit about Jim. He was an atheist and a socialist. And as near as I can tell he was crazy.

Unhinged? The power got to him but enough with the revisionism.

My point about asking if you knew Joel Osteen personally is judging a person without really knowing that person - especially if you aren't being objective - is fraught with potential error.

His teachings are publicly available. He worships a different god than I.

It's that whole do unto others as you would have them do unto you thingee.

I recall him turning away the needy during the floods until he was embarrassed into accepting the homeless.

 

[ding]

Unhinged? The power got to him but enough with the revisionism. His teachings are publicly available. He worships a different god than I. I recall him turning away the needy during the floods until he was embarrassed into accepting the homeless.

I think I'll stick with crazy. Unhinged doesn't get that many people killed.

I don't care about what he teaches per se. I don't know much about what he teaches other than he teaches the prosperity gospel (I think). One of the teachings of the bible - which is also supported by reason and experience - is that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. Some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. So I don't see anything inherently wrong with teaching that successful behaviors naturally leads to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failures. Which should resonate with atheists.

As for what he does in life (i.e. his actions)... I guess it's whatever his conscience can bear until then. But I don't know enough about him to judge the person. Sure I can judge his actions, but I'd make damn sure I had the whole story first.

 

[ding]

He worships a different god than I.

Maybe a different perception of God. Unless you think there are more than one, I guess.

 

[pknopp]

I think I'll stick with crazy. Unhinged doesn't get that many people killed.

I don't care about what he teaches per se. I don't know much about what he teaches other than he teaches the prosperity gospel (I think). One of the teachings of the bible - which is also supported by reason and experience - is that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. Some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. So I don't see anything inherently wrong with teaching that successful behaviors naturally leads to success and failed behaviors naturally lead to failures. Which should resonate with atheists.

I'm not an atheist so.......

As for what he does in life (i.e. his actions)... I guess it's whatever his conscience can bear until then. But I don't know enough about him to judge the person. Sure I can judge his actions, but I'd make damn sure I had the whole story first.

Some people seem to not have a conscience.

 

[pknopp]

Maybe a different perception of God. Unless you think there are more than one, I guess.

The Bible notes that.

 

[ding]

The Bible notes that.

Notes what? That the Jews were polytheists before becoming monotheists? Or do you think that was God telling you there were other gods? Because that conversion didn't happen overnight regardless of how it's been portrayed on TV.

 

[ding]

I'm not an atheist so.......
Some people seem to not have a conscience.

I didn't assume you were. I was merely pointing out that the prosperity gospel - absent it's references to God - should be appealing to materialists.

Yes, and there are varying degrees within the ones that do. Almost everything has a distribution. My guess is that sociopaths (i.e. no conscience) make up about 3% of the population while people who reach the 6th stage of Kohlberg's morality progression are at the other end of the spectrum at about 3%. The rest of us are somewhere between the two extremes.

 

[pknopp]

Notes what? That the Jews were polytheists before becoming monotheists? Or do you think that was God telling you there were other gods? Because that conversion didn't happen overnight regardless of how it's been portrayed on TV.

"Gods" encompassed many things.

 

[ding]

"Gods" encompassed many things.

My take. God is no thing. God is every extant attribute of reality. Infinite truth, infinite logic, infinite love, infinite goodness, and on and on. I'm not saying God has those attributes. I am saying God IS those attributes.

 

[pknopp]

My take. God is no thing. God is every extant attribute of reality. Infinite truth, infinite logic, infinite love, infinite goodness, and on and on. I'm not saying God has those attributes. I am saying God IS those attributes.

No argument.

 

[ding]

No argument.

I appreciate that. What some people on this board don't realize about my posts is that I'm only sharing my beliefs. I'm not arguing against their beliefs. I can't help it if my beliefs are sometimes in conflict with their beliefs. I'm perfectly fine with them holding their beliefs. It's no skin off of my back.

 

[rightwinger]

Logically, atheists believe the only thing that exists is the material world. As such the satisfaction of material needs and primitive instincts is all that matters to a materialist like an atheist. So whenever you hear an atheist talking about the higher aspects of humans, like morals for the sake of being moral, they might as well be a lip service paying Christian.

Believe it or not, atheists have feelings, they love, raise families, help their neighbors

All without needing a God

 

[rightwinger]

The point is that Christians do not do good due to fear of God.

Those who believe the Old Testament do

 

[BreezeWood]

The only one throwing stones here is you. It's literally the only thing you do here.

Native American tribes in another time believed stealing from, killing or kidnapping people including women and children of other tribes was the 'moral' thing to do. They believed making slaves of people was entirely moral as was torturing their captured enemies in the most horrible ways imaginable.

oh, its the bible belt texas vigilante ... never the liest for glad tidings.

as of course their morals come only from the holy book - the christian bible and is orator supreme for the bible belt.

 

[ding]

Believe it or not, atheists have feelings, they love, raise families, help their neighbors

All without needing a God

I believe it. I wish them the best. Life is unfair. They should expect to make sacrifices.

 

[ding]

oh, its the bible belt texas vigilante ... never the liest for glad tidings.

View attachment 1109819

as of course their morals come only from the holy book - the christian bible and is orator supreme for the bible belt.

Same shit, different day.