Zone1 Where does atheist morality come from?

[Meriweather]

Where are you going with this?

The philosophy that everything physical is contingent on something else has roots at least as old as ancient Greece. This being the case, how could physical creation happen? It had to come from the un-contingent, outside of all we know. This being, not being contingent/dependent on anything physical is not physical. (Note they couldn't describe what this being is, only what it is not.) This being is only dependent on itself, depends on nothing else, is complete. He is outside space, outside time. He is Creator.

 

[rightwinger]

He is outside space, outside time. He is Creator.

Magic

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Is that your way of saying you were wrong when you said what you think and do is based upon evidence?

Your premise is faulty and no longer worth responding to since that is apologetics 101. Forget Catholicism or Christianity. NO ONE has to prove the NONexistence of anything. If that were true, crazies could claim they commune with beings orbiting the Hallie Bopp comet and a spaceship is awaiting believers upon their death. someone coming along and telling them they need serious psychological help could be met with the same response of, "Can you prove me wrong?"

 

[Paradoxical#1]

The philosophy that everything physical is contingent on something else has roots at least as old as ancient Greece. This being the case, how could physical creation happen? It had to come from the un-contingent, outside of all we know. This being, not being contingent/dependent on anything physical is not physical. (Note they couldn't describe what this being is, only what it is not.) This being is only dependent on itself, depends on nothing else, is complete. He is outside space, outside time. He is Creator.

Is this a theory that you think no one knows about? This is the Kalam Cosmological argument. This is a neat way to exclude your god from infinite regress and I have listened to dozens of Willaim Lane Craig arguments using this premise. Some say the universe could have begun from natural causes with no divine means.

Personally, I don't know the answer. Nor does science. To suggest that those who admit they don't know just want to deny god as the cause is the standard apologetic. Science will never know everything. Remember it was your God (if you believe he wrote the bible) got many things wrong in Genesis and I believe you and others here admit that the bible was written only for certain tribes and for that time in history. Thus the reason your God didn't know anything about science or quantum mechanics.

 

[Meriweather]

Is this a theory that you think no one knows about? This is the Kalam Cosmological argument. This is a neat way to exclude your god from infinite regress and I have listened to dozens of Willaim Lane Craig arguments using this premise. Some say the universe could have begun from natural causes with no divine means.

Personally, I don't know the answer. Nor does science. To suggest that those who admit they don't know just want to deny god as the cause is the standard apologetic. Science will never know everything. Remember it was your God (if you believe he wrote the bible) got many things wrong in Genesis and I believe you and others here admit that the bible was written only for certain tribes and for that time in history. Thus the reason your God didn't know anything about science or quantum mechanics.

Obviously I thought you--and many others--knew about contingent philosophy. It has long been an open book, not a secret. Science is limited to the physical, it is philosophy that explores beyond the physical.

As you have no interest in this, never mind.

 

[ding]

Your premise is faulty and no longer worth responding to since that is apologetics 101. Forget Catholicism or Christianity. NO ONE has to prove the NONexistence of anything. If that were true, crazies could claim they commune with beings orbiting the Hallie Bopp comet and a spaceship is awaiting believers upon their death. someone coming along and telling them they need serious psychological help could be met with the same response of, "Can you prove me wrong?"

But you said what you think and do is based upon evidence. What's your evidence for thinking God doesn't exist? I'm not asking you to prove anything. I just want to know what evidence you have for thinking God doesn't exist. Were you lying when you said what you think and do is based upon evidence?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

But you said what you think and do is based upon evidence. What's your evidence for thinking God doesn't exist? I'm not asking you to prove anything. I just want to know what evidence you have for thinking God doesn't exist. Were you lying when you said what you think and do is based upon evidence?

I may have to stop engaging with you. For the final time, ONLY the one stating an affirmative position needs to have EVIDENCE of the existence of something they claim. NO ONE who doesn't believe his wild claims has to have evidence what he imagines does NOT exist.

Otherwise, we need to have evidence that Jesus was not waiting on the Halle Bopp comet for the Heavens Gate suicide victims, all of whom were extremely intelligent successful people. Based on your extremely faulty belief, anyone at the time would have to have evidence that what they said was wrong.

If I said that a teapot orbited Saturn and you said it did not, you would have to have evidence I was wrong based on your illogic.

 

[ding]

I may have to stop engaging with you. For the final time, ONLY the one stating an affirmative position needs to have EVIDENCE of the existence of something they claim. NO ONE who doesn't believe his wild claims has to have evidence what he imagines does NOT exist.

Otherwise, we need to have evidence that Jesus was not waiting on the Halle Bopp comet for the Heavens Gate suicide victims, all of whom were extremely intelligent successful people. Based on your extremely faulty belief, anyone at the time would have to have evidence that what they said was wrong.

If I said that a teapot orbited Saturn and you said it did not, you would have to have evidence I was wrong based on your illogic.

Were you lying when you said what you think and do is based upon evidence?

 

[ding]

I base what I think and do on evidence.

Apparently not.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Were you lying when you said what you think and do is based upon evidence?

You are becoming impossible. No one needs evidence that a god does not exist. My evidence pertains only to things that can be demonstrated and your silly bible god can no more be demonstrated as real than Thor or Ra or Zuess. That you believe it exists outside your imagination is just that; a belief and no one needs evidence it does not.

 

[ding]

You are becoming impossible. No one needs evidence that a god does not exist. My evidence pertains only to things that can be demonstrated and your silly bible god can no more be demonstrated as real than Thor or Ra or Zuess. That you believe it exists outside your imagination is just that; a belief and no one needs evidence it does not.

Maybe don't make statements that aren't true. Or at least don't blame others when you do.

 

[Mashmont]

Where does religious morality come from?

Did they just invent it one day?

One day killing other people was perfectly fine, then the next day they decided it was wrong?

Perhaps religious morality came from human morality before the religion turned it into religious morality.

There are no rules without a rulemaker. Proof of God.

 

[Mashmont]

How can an atheist claim to have morals, other than by stealing morals from other sources such as the Bible, or the law of the state or nation in which they live?

For that matter, there is no way to know what every individual's morals are or where they come from, so how do we know that an atheist has morals to begin with just because they say they do?

Since man is intrinsically evil, manmade 'morals' will always lead to destruction. That's why atheist regimes are always horrible murderous disasters: North Korea, China, Cuba, USSR, Nazi Germany.

In EVERY one of these countries, the leaders lead promiscuous lives of unimaginable wealth and opulence while murdering their opponents. Ask yourself why that's so. It's because they make the rules, and manmade rules are selfish and destructive.

 

[ding]

Since man is intrinsically evil, manmade 'morals' will always lead to destruction. That's why atheist regimes are always horrible murderous disasters: North Korea, China, Cuba, USSR, Nazi Germany.

Is man intrinsically evil?

 

[Mashmont]

Is man intrinsically evil?

Perhaps I stated it too strongly.

Genesis 8:21 "The inclination of the human heart is evil from youth,"

 

[ding]

Perhaps I stated it too strongly.

Genesis 8:21 "The inclination of the human heart is evil from youth,"

I think this is a more accurate translation.

When the LORD smelled the sweet odor, the LORD said to himself: Never again will I curse the ground because of human beings, since the desires of the human heart are evil from youth; nor will I ever again strike down every living being, as I have done.b

 

[ding]

Magic

No. Logic. Among other "things."

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Maybe don't make statements that aren't true. Or at least don't blame others when you do.

Maybe don't be dumb and say that when someone says he bases his beliefs on evidence that doesn't mean he has evidence something does not exist such as a ten-headed elephant, Thor, Zuess, Allah, a Holy Spirit, angels, words a million letters long, a bible god.

 

[ding]

Maybe don't be dumb and say that when someone says he bases his beliefs on evidence that doesn't mean he has evidence something does not exist such as a ten-headed elephant, Thor, Zuess, Allah, a Holy Spirit, angels, words a million letters long, a bible god.

That you compare the creator of existence to those things shows your bias. But thanks for admitting you have no evidence for your belief that there is no creator.

My evidence is creation itself. So I have evidence for my beliefs.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

That you compare the creator of existence to those things shows your bias. But thanks for admitting you have no evidence for your belief that there is no creator.

My evidence is creation itself. So I have evidence for my beliefs.

Please submit your evidence that your Gid created the universe.