Zone1 Where does atheist morality come from?

[Mr Natural]

You got some serious issues if you need an imaginary being to keep yourself on the straight and narrow.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm sure you have the OT verse when Jesus, who is also God (before the 3 split) talked about something like abomination? You would know better than I.

Oh? And what else does the Bible have to say about it? As it covers over six thousand years, it must have come up continually?

 

[Meriweather]

I did and found out it is all bullshit, made up by fearful people. Now what?

When we were little, my dad used to play "Hide the Thimble" with us quite a lot, especially on rainy days. When the first few places we searched turned up a lot of other things, but no thimble, we kept on until we located the object of our search. You gave up. Again, my mantra: Seek and you will find.

 

[ding]

You got some serious issues if you need an imaginary being to keep yourself on the straight and narrow.

Good thing that's not what it's about.

 

[ding]

God was really moral when he made up rules about beating slaves and if they didn't die, you were cool? He was super moral when he offed the entire human race. Even more moral when he created the devil.

Are you folks suggesting that humans need some invisible imaginary god to not kill or steal? Did you know that most people in jail are Christians?

If you don't believe God exists then how can you believe God made up rules about beating slaves?

 

[ding]

I did and found out it is all bullshit, made up by fearful people. Now what?

Now what? I guess you're going to keep bitching about it. Luckily for me that wasn't my experience. My experience is that my faith has led to an incredibly rich and full life.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Oh? And what else does the Bible have to say about it? As it covers over six thousand years, it must have come up continually?

I dunno. You can give me where your god contradicted himself if you like. But I looked and looked and God, his son Jesus, or his "Holy Spirit" which no one here knows what that is, ever said they were not.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

When we were little, my dad used to play "Hide the Thimble" with us quite a lot, especially on rainy days. When the first few places we searched turned up a lot of other things, but no thimble, we kept on until we located the object of our search. You gave up. Again, my mantra: Seek and you will find.

One of the key things about word games and thimbles and the bolded above is that if any cult can use it that means it is word salad indoctrination to persuade believers in whatever religious ideology you want. This is not new stuff for me or any other long-time believer turned nonbeliever.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

If you don't believe God exists then how can you believe God made up rules about beating slaves?

Just using the bible the cultists always bang on.

 

[Meriweather]

One of the key things about word games and thimbles and the bolded above is that if any cult can use it that means it is word salad indoctrination to persuade believers in whatever religious ideology you want. This is not new stuff for me or any other long-time believer turned nonbeliever.

Except...it is not a "word game" but analogy, summed up with Seek and you will find.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Now what? I guess you're going to keep bitching about it. Luckily for me that wasn't my experience. My experience is that my faith has led to an incredibly rich and full life.

Have you ever once considered that if someone really wanted to make people believe something when they had zero evidence for it they would solemnly proclaim that "faith is a virtue"?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Except...it is not a "word game" but analogy, summed up with Seek and you will find.

The analogy is a word game suggesting that anyone who does believe what you do, just hasn't searched hard enough like you have. Once again Meriweather, you may forget I was born into the cult and drank the Kool-Aid until about my mid-twenties, and have been there, done that. Your statement is made up by apologists and priests to win and keep converts. A mind game that makes them think you know more than they do and they must have missed something. Matt Dillahunty was a devout Baptist and preached the bible. He now has a YouTube show and debates Christians. There are scores of others like him. Pastors, priests, and devout believers have also realized they were conned.

Do you know why I bring that up? Callers tell them they weren't true believers, that they are missing something, or that they are misinterpreting scripture.

 

[Meriweather]

.... his "Holy Spirit" which no one here knows what that is ....

Perhaps you have focused on this and what it means? Let's go back to you wanting proof/evidence of everything. Philosophically, have you ever studied contingencies? Every physical item in this world is contingent on something else that is also physical. Roughly: The chair I'm sitting on is made of wood, which is contingent upon someone building it, which is contingent on someone having the wood to build it, which is contingent upon a tree to provide it, which is contingent upon the earth to grow in, which is contingent upon....etc, etc. etc. Philosophically, this goes on until one finds that what is not contingent on anything--it simply is (or, I am who I am). This leads to the problem of describing this--and one cannot, because anything that can be described falls back into the contingency category. Therefore, we are stuck with describing what it is not.

For example, the Holy Spirit is not a ghost because ghost is described as someone who was once a physical being, which steps us right back into contingencies. From here do you see the problem of your demand for evidence of God? It is impossible to provide evidence, because it is impossible to pull what is not contingent into the realm where everything is contingent on something else.

Can you understand the problem atheists have with God? They see God has no contingency, and conclude He must not exist. We get back to the philosophical position of relying on explaining what God is not....And atheists cannot perceive beyond "not".

 

[BreezeWood]

The ultimate standard which is God because there is no other scale to base it on, so there ya go.
Yeah, let them try to deny that one there and laugh.

monotheist and their bibles of fiction have used their madeup religions to needlessly persecute and victimize the innocent and perpetuate wars to control through servitude and denial their perceived enemies than allow informed, honest and a free society.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Perhaps you have focused on this and what it means? Let's go back to you wanting proof/evidence of everything. Philosophically, have you ever studied contingencies? Every physical item in this world is contingent on something else that is also physical. Roughly: The chair I'm sitting on is made of wood, which is contingent upon someone building it, which is contingent on someone having the wood to build it, which is contingent upon a tree to provide it, which is contingent upon the earth to grow in, which is contingent upon....etc, etc. etc. Philosophically, this goes on until one finds that what is not contingent on anything--it simply is (or, I am who I am). This leads to the problem of describing this--and one cannot, because anything that can be described falls back into the contingency category. Therefore, we are stuck with describing what it is not.

For example, the Holy Spirit is not a ghost because ghost is described as someone who was once a physical being, which steps us right back into contingencies. From here do you see the problem of your demand for evidence of God? It is impossible to provide evidence, because it is impossible to pull what is not contingent into the realm where everything is contingent on something else.

Can you understand the problem atheists have with God? They see God has no contingency, and conclude He must not exist. We get back to the philosophical position of relying on explaining what God is not....And atheists cannot perceive beyond "not".

Where do you get what atheists think? It is nothing close to your last paragraph. It was Hitchens, one of the greatest debaters ever who listened to a priest talking about the impossibility of something coming from nothing and never once talking about how his imagined God came from nothing, thereby refuting the priests argument. Hitchens said that he carefully avoided defending the Catholic god concept and why didn’t he mention the thousands of conceived gods over the millennia? The priest was left speechless when Hitchens said, “Even if you can get over the huge mountain of showing that A god MAY have created the universe, you have light years to go in proving the preposterous vengeful jealous petulant Christian god.”

 

[Meriweather]

Where do you get what atheists think? It is nothing close to your last paragraph. It was Hitchens, one of the greatest debaters ever who listened to a priest talking about the impossibility of something coming from nothing and never once talking about how his imagined God came from nothing, thereby refuting the priests argument. Hitchens said that he carefully avoided defending the Catholic god concept and why didn’t he mention the thousands of conceived gods over the millennia? The priest was left speechless when Hitchens said, “Even if you can get over the huge mountain of showing that A god MAY have created the universe, you have light years to go in proving the preposterous vengeful jealous petulant Christian god.”

That is in incorrect description of God; but you missed the point anyway, so no matter.

 

[Woodznutz]

How can an atheist claim to have morals, other than by stealing morals from other sources such as the Bible, or the law of the state or nation in which they live?

For that matter, there is no way to know what every individual's morals are or where they come from, so how do we know that an atheist has morals to begin with just because they say they do?

Morals are intrinsic to most humans regardless of religious beliefs.

Romans 2:14-15​

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14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

 

[Foxfyre]

How can an atheist claim to have morals, other than by stealing morals from other sources such as the Bible, or the law of the state or nation in which they live?

For that matter, there is no way to know what every individual's morals are or where they come from, so how do we know that an atheist has morals to begin with just because they say they do?

Morality is cultural and for most learned behavior. Native American tribes in another time believed stealing from, killing or kidnapping people including women and children of other tribes was the 'moral' thing to do. They believed making slaves of people was entirely moral as was torturing their captured enemies in the most horrible ways imaginable.

Modern day Native Americans no longer participate in that kind of culture and now will usually reflect mainstream morality as is the culture of the vast majority of Americans overall.

Certainly Christianity has improved the human condition enormously because of the kind of morality it promotes. Atheists don't embrace the Christianity, but they are conditioned by it as to what they believe to be right and wrong just the same.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

That is in incorrect description of God; but you missed the point anyway, so no matter.

Yes, of course, you are right. Ask a thousand Christians to describe their god concept and get a thousand different answers, all of them insisting it is the right one.

 

[ding]

Just using the bible the cultists always bang on.

But you are making an argument you don't believe in. So I can only assume you believe the Jews did those things on their own, right? And then claimed God did it, right?