Zone1 Where does atheist morality come from?

[Paradoxical#1]

I've never once considered extinction of the human race in any of my decisions and I doubt you have either. Your last sentence proves my point about atheists, you think the reason to be fair is to get what you want from others (i.e. satisfying your material needs and primitive impulses).

I never said YOU personally think about the extinction of the human race. A lion doesn't think about the extinction of all lions when she protects her young and goes out and hunts for food for them. A monkey doesn't think about monkey extinction when he grooms another monkey, lovingly nurses a baby, and fights off any would-be invaders.

Over the millennia, humans have learned through trial and error, physical harm, and death the morals we have now which allow humans to exist in relative peace through cooperation and laws.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

I'm afraid I can't help you figure it out. I was very clear.

In your mind you were. I have no clue wtf you are talking about half the time.

 

[Meriweather]

When I was young I was very scared of hell. You make it seem like I am scared now. That was a long time ago. When Christians can't sell the canard that god loves them and wants a relationship with their mind, they trot out the consequences for not believing their story. This is what I mean by peddling the emotion of fear. You know and knew what it is I mean. I don't appreciate you trying to twist it when you know w=damned well what I am referring to, Your tactic is a diversion allowing you to claim that Catholics don't peddle fear.

I was not afraid of hell, and no one ever made that attempt. In all the lengthy years I've been Catholic, I've heard three homilies that mentioned hell--and I'm talking about many different parishes in five different states. All the rest of the homilies have been about the love of God. So, no, I don't know what you are talking about. So, who made you so afraid of hell? And how often was the fear of hell held over you? I'm guessing often enough that you had no confidence in the love of God.

My faith isn't about selling anything, nor are consequences "trotted out". You speak more of that than anyone else I have heard or even know. You say you are no longer afraid, but from your posts it seems you are still putting up a mighty fight against hell like it is often on your mind. It is rarely on mine.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

I was not afraid of hell, and no one ever made that attempt. In all the lengthy years I've been Catholic, I've heard three homilies that mentioned hell--and I'm talking about many different parishes in five different states. All the rest of the homilies have been about the love of God. So, no, I don't know what you are talking about. So, who made you so afraid of hell? And how often was the fear of hell held over you? I'm guessing often enough that you had no confidence in the love of God.

My faith isn't about selling anything, nor are consequences "trotted out". You speak more of that than anyone else I have heard or even know. You say you are no longer afraid, but from your posts it seems you are still putting up a mighty fight against hell like it is often on your mind. It is rarely on mine.

Look, I don't care if you personally didn't need the indoctrination tactic of hell. You bought into the "Jesus/God loves you and you will be rewarded after you die" and that's all you wanted to know, which is YOU get out of here alive because you believed the story they were selling.

If you are going to assert that Catholics are not taught that hell is real, let me know.

 

[Meriweather]

Look, I don't care if you personally didn't need the indoctrination tactic of hell. You bought into the "Jesus/God loves you and you will be rewarded after you die" and that's all you wanted to know, which is YOU get out of here alive because you believed the story they were selling.

You haven't read any of my posts, have you? No often how many times I've posted this, you dismiss it and tell me what I "really bought into". I "bought into" seek and you shall find. I know the love of God, and it's beyond imaginable. The Bible can't describe the half of it.

If you are going to assert that Catholics are not taught that hell is real, let me know.

Catholicism teaches the reality of hell. Sounds like another class/Bible Study you missed. You know nothing about God and you the amount you know of Catholicism wouldn't fill a thimble.

 

[ding]

I have no clue

I know.

 

[ding]

I never said YOU personally think about the extinction of the human race. A lion doesn't think about the extinction of all lions when she protects her young and goes out and hunts for food for them. A monkey doesn't think about monkey extinction when he grooms another monkey, lovingly nurses a baby, and fights off any would-be invaders.

Over the millennia, humans have learned through trial and error, physical harm, and death the morals we have now which allow humans to exist in relative peace through cooperation and laws.

No one thinks about that ever.

So it seems that you are saying that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. That some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. And that man can't just choose any behavior and get the same results. That outcomes are independent of what man may or may not choose. Congratulations. Welcome to absolute morals.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

You haven't read any of my posts, have you? No often how many times I've posted this, you dismiss it and tell me what I "really bought into". I "bought into" seek and you shall find. I know the love of God, and it's beyond imaginable. The Bible can't describe the half of it.

Catholicism teaches the reality of hell. Sounds like another class/Bible Study you missed. You know nothing about God and you the amount you know of Catholicism wouldn't fill a thimble.

So, hell is not inducing FEAR?

 

[ding]

So, hell is not inducing FEAR?

Did you hear hell discussed a lot when you were a Catholic? Because I've never heard it discussed.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

No one thinks about that ever.

So it seems that you are saying that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. That some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. And that man can't just choose any behavior and get the same results. That outcomes are independent of man may or may not choose. Congratulations. Welcome to absolute morals.

You are a very confused individual who doesn’t understand the universal law of cause and effect. If someone builds a cave to protect himself and his family the law of cause and effect says that his chances of living are better than the caveman who prays to Jesus to keep him safe from other caveman and the cold.

 

[ding]

You are a very confused individual who doesn’t understand the universal law of cause and effect. If someone builds a cave to protect himself and his family the law of cause and effect says that his chances of living are better than the caveman who prays to Jesus to keep him safe from other caveman and the cold.

I'm a degreed engineer. I understand cause and effect very well. In fact, I know it so well that I can say that's a horrible analogy. You seem to think people of faith rely exclusively on praying to Jesus to keep us safe. I'm guessing that my faith has led to better outcomes for me than your lack of faith has done for you.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Did you hear hell discussed a lot when you were a Catholic? Because I've never heard it discussed.

Because you don’t know Catholicism very well.

 

[ding]

Because you don’t know Catholicism very well.

I disagree. It's you who does not know Catholicism very well. Have you ever read the Catechism of the Catholic Church? I have.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

I'm a degreed engineer. I understand cause and effect very well. In fact, I know it so well that I can say that's a horrible analogy. You seem to think people of faith rely exclusively on praying to Jesus to keep us safe. I'm guessing that my faith has led to better outcomes for me than your lack of faith has done for you.

You guess wrong Mr. Engineer. Faith in Jesus does nothing. Studies have shown those prayed for fare worse than not being prayed for. Try faith to solve an equation.

“Oh, boss. I wasn’t sure if my calculations were accurate on that bridge design but I have faith Jesus will intervene if they are not.”

 

[ding]

You guess wrong Mr. Engineer. Faith in Jesus does nothing. Studies have shown those prayed for fare worse than not being prayed for. Try faith to solve an equation.

“Oh, boss. I wasn’t sure if my calculations were accurate on that bridge design but I have faith Jesus will intervene if they are not.”

Faith is everything. It's what gives me peace through the storm. Your perception of faith, God and religion is so biased that you have poisoned yourself against objectivity.

 

[ding]

Try faith to solve an equation.

Faith, like prayer, alters the fabric of our identity such that we seek truth in all things. As such people of faith will tend to be more humble and objective than people - like you - who lack faith. Faith leads to peace, harmony and happiness. And it has been shown that happiness turns on all the learning centers in the brain. So, yeah, my faith does solve problems. My faith has led to success. I've been extremely successful. How about you? Because you strike me as someone who hasn't had a lot of success and is bitter and cynical towards life in general. I'm willing to bet you have an external locus of control and have experienced many predictable surprises because of your lack of objectivity.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Faith is everything. It's what gives me peace through the storm. Your perception of faith, God and religion is so biased that you have poisoned yourself against objectivity.

Sorry but faith is for suckers as is prayer.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

As such people of faith will tend to be more humble and objective than people - like you - who lack faith. Faith leads to peace, harmony and happiness. And it has been shown that happiness turns on all the learning centers in the brain. So, yeah, my faith does solve problems. My faith has led to success. I've been extremely successful. How about you? Because you strike me as someone who hasn't had a lot of success and is bitter and cynical towards life in general. I'm willing to bet you have an external locus of control and have experienced many predictable surprises because of your lack of objectivity.

LOL. In between these posts I am working on rutting in sprinklers and walkways in my garden which is bigger than the trailer you live in.

You just make claims such as "Faith, like prayer, alters the fabric of our identity such that we seek truth in all things." You have zero proof of that. It is a claim only. This is what believers do. They pretend they are know it alls and have the truth and to prove it they make CLAIMS. Often they use the bible to back up their claims as if the bible isn't also a book of CLAIMS by ignorant moronic tribal warriors who imagined God loved THEM but not the other guys. Kinda like Christians, who imagine Jesus loves them cause they are special; cause they believe and have faith.

 

[Meriweather]

So, hell is not inducing FEAR?

What is there to fear? The Church teaches that hell is eternal separation from God. And, the Church teaches how to remain close to God. Each person has a choice and freely makes a choice. We were taught God sends no one to hell--people choose hell (complete separation from God). You appear to have chosen complete separation from God many years ago. You say you are happy with this choice, and you appear to want people to join you in your choice.

 

[Meriweather]

Faith in Jesus does nothing. Studies have shown those prayed for fare worse than not being prayed for. Try faith to solve an equation.

Already solved. God is not a genii granting wishes, but works according to his will. We pray, Your will be done, not My will be done. Abraham Lincoln said it well when he answered the question, "Do you believe God is on your side (when it came to the Union). President Lincoln replied, "It is better that I am on God's side."

Before entering into prayer, my best prayer experiences come when I am first centered on Your will be done. It is also useful to have in mind, that we are not to use the Lord's name in vain. Praying My will be done is a really great example of using the Lord's name in vain. He is God, not my genii. Remove the genii from prayer life, and the change is great.