Zone1 Where does atheist morality come from?

[ding]

Pretty much so

Invent an almighty force that you had better obey or else
Easier to control people. God is watching

And which account was the first one that you believe that occurred?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

The only thing that can be eternal into the past is no thing. God is no thing. This is a life breeding, intelligence creating universe because the constant presence of mind made it so. Rather than mind being a late outgrowth of the evolution of space and time, mind has always existed as the source or matrix of the physical world. The physical world is made up of mind stuff.

Your post is full of conjecture, suppositions, and arguments without one bit of evidence of your affirmative claims of what you think the universe is and why. I am not so bold as to make any claims about how the universe began. Nor are any atheists who debate Christians. They/we say "We don't know how the universe came about and certainly not why."

My apologies if I am wrong, but you strike me as someone who is beginning your apologetics and that's OK. We all have to start somewhere on our journey. It goes without saying that the universe is awe-inspiring and magnificent as is life. Most of us will ask why we are here at some point in our lives. This is why religions became a haven for people seeking answers. If you find yours with Catholicism, so be it. I am sure it gives you comfort and peace when you concentrate on the claims of love, peace, harmony, and eternal life where you will see parents, friends, and lovers who have passed.

When I first came here, I posted that I stopped debating religion except occasionally, but you and Meriweather have kept me busy responding to your arguments, which both of you think are evidence. One thing in debate is that arguments are not evidence of anything at all. They are maybes, possibilities, conjectures, and often hopes and dreams.

Having been raised as a Catholic, I certainly loved the notion of eternal bliss where all I had to do was believe that the bible was somehow the word of god and when I was young I just accepted that claim(s) because the claims came from elders and we always believe what they teach. When I would later question others about the claim that "God" somehow inspired the bible I would get angry replies because those I was questioning had no answer other than that is what they were told to believe. Some would say that there is evidence a town described in the bible existed as "proof" which was like saying New York exists and therefore Spiderman must be real. Others would say there was evidence of an event happening as "proof" which was like saying humans didn't know about floods, fires, or wars and therefore it must be a god who informed them.

Still others would say prophecies came true and back in my days you could not refute those claims without spending weeks of manual research. One famous one is that Jesus was pierced with a sword on the cross but that claim is unverified. The list goes on and any alleged prophecy can easily be refuted today with internet research. Centuries ago, humans could not do that and the church depended on feeding the people what they wanted to hear without question.

 

[ding]

Your post is full of conjecture, suppositions, and arguments without one bit of evidence of your affirmative claims of what you think the universe is and why. I am not so bold as to make any claims about how the universe began. Nor are any atheists who debate Christians. They/we say "We don't know how the universe came about and certainly not why."

My apologies if I am wrong, but you strike me as someone who is beginning your apologetics and that's OK. We all have to start somewhere on our journey. It goes without saying that the universe is awe-inspiring and magnificent as is life. Most of us will ask why we are here at some point in our lives. This is why religions became a haven for people seeking answers. If you find yours with Catholicism, so be it. I am sure it gives you comfort and peace when you concentrate on the claims of love, peace, harmony, and eternal life where you will see parents, friends, and lovers who have passed.

When I first came here, I posted that I stopped debating religion except occasionally, but you and Meriweather have kept me busy responding to your arguments, which both of you think are evidence. One thing in debate is that arguments are not evidence of anything at all. They are maybes, possibilities, conjectures, and often hopes and dreams.

Having been raised as a Catholic, I certainly loved the notion of eternal bliss where all I had to do was believe that the bible was somehow the word of god and when I was young I just accepted that claim(s) because the claims came from elders and we always believe what they teach. When I would later question others about the claim that "God" somehow inspired the bible I would get angry replies because those I was questioning had no answer other than that is what they were told to believe. Some would say that there is evidence a town described in the bible existed as "proof" which was like saying New York exists and therefore Spiderman must be real. Others would say there was evidence of an event happening as "proof" which was like saying humans didn't know about floods, fires, or wars and therefore it must be a god who informed them.

Still others would say prophecies came true and back in my days you could not refute those claims without spending weeks of manual research. One famous one is that Jesus was pierced with a sword on the cross but that claim is unverified. The list goes on and any alleged prophecy can easily be refuted today with internet research. Centuries ago, humans could not do that and the church depended on feeding the people what they wanted to hear without question.

What do you believe is conjecture? That no "thing" can be eternal into the past? Because that's not conjecture at all. Or is it that mind has always existed? That's not conjecture. That's logic. But first you have to understand why no "thing" can be eternal into the past. Also it would be helpful if you understood how the universe was created from nothing.

 

[ding]

One thing in debate is that arguments are not evidence of anything at all.

Could I use something you created - even if I didn't know who created it - as evidence?

 

[ding]

Your post is full of conjecture, suppositions, and arguments without one bit of evidence of your affirmative claims of what you think the universe is and why. I am not so bold as to make any claims about how the universe began. Nor are any atheists who debate Christians. They/we say "We don't know how the universe came about and certainly not why."

My apologies if I am wrong, but you strike me as someone who is beginning your apologetics and that's OK. We all have to start somewhere on our journey. It goes without saying that the universe is awe-inspiring and magnificent as is life. Most of us will ask why we are here at some point in our lives. This is why religions became a haven for people seeking answers. If you find yours with Catholicism, so be it. I am sure it gives you comfort and peace when you concentrate on the claims of love, peace, harmony, and eternal life where you will see parents, friends, and lovers who have passed.

When I first came here, I posted that I stopped debating religion except occasionally, but you and Meriweather have kept me busy responding to your arguments, which both of you think are evidence. One thing in debate is that arguments are not evidence of anything at all. They are maybes, possibilities, conjectures, and often hopes and dreams.

Having been raised as a Catholic, I certainly loved the notion of eternal bliss where all I had to do was believe that the bible was somehow the word of god and when I was young I just accepted that claim(s) because the claims came from elders and we always believe what they teach. When I would later question others about the claim that "God" somehow inspired the bible I would get angry replies because those I was questioning had no answer other than that is what they were told to believe. Some would say that there is evidence a town described in the bible existed as "proof" which was like saying New York exists and therefore Spiderman must be real. Others would say there was evidence of an event happening as "proof" which was like saying humans didn't know about floods, fires, or wars and therefore it must be a god who informed them.

Still others would say prophecies came true and back in my days you could not refute those claims without spending weeks of manual research. One famous one is that Jesus was pierced with a sword on the cross but that claim is unverified. The list goes on and any alleged prophecy can easily be refuted today with internet research. Centuries ago, humans could not do that and the church depended on feeding the people what they wanted to hear without question.

Just so you know... none of those "reasons" apply to me. My faith, my relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are about living now in the present and how it enriches the present. I don't waste one minute of the present daydreaming about heaven or in fear of hell. And if that's what you did or thought that that was what this is all about, then that's on you. Because that's not what this is all about. It's about living life to the fullest.

 

[Meriweather]

Meriweather have kept me busy responding to your arguments, which both of you think are evidence.

How did you ever come up with this conclusion when I am constantly and consistently talking about no evidence?

 

[Mr Natural]

You’ve got yourself some big problems if you need an imaginary being to keep yourself on the straight and narrow.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

You’ve got yourself some big problems if you need an imaginary being to keep yourself on the straight and narrow.

Yes. You will get no response from those who think morals are god given when you ask them if they would be out murdering, stealing, mugging, and raping if their bible god did not exist. If they would then we should be thankful that they are controlled by faith that everything in the bible is correct.

 

[ding]

Yes. You will get no response from those who think morals are god given when you ask them if they would be out murdering, stealing, mugging, and raping if their bible god did not exist. If they would then we should be thankful that they are controlled by faith that everything in the bible is correct.

It's not our fault that you don't understand what you read. God didn't write the bible.

 

[ding]

You’ve got yourself some big problems if you need an imaginary being to keep yourself on the straight and narrow.

I agree. Just like you have a problem if you believe all behaviors lead to equal outcomes.

 

[ding]

I think this really comes down to why is there an expectation of fairness in the first place.