When the Collapse Comes...

[Wildman]

yeah , my DAD was like that RANDALL and he and my MOM taught me to cook at 7 - 8 , mostly showed how simple cooking was like frying eggs , cooking meat . I also learned sewing and other girly arts which really aren't just for girls . Complacent and fat to some extent but also engineered in my opinion . Where did shop class and home economics go and why did they go ?? I think home economics went so as to drive people to restraunts and the eating business [economy] with its high fat and sugar content which then is said to make kids fat so then healthcare gets more customers and gov agents [another industry] gets to step in and tell people how to feed their kids . [whew , farfetched ehh ?]

my Mother taught me to sew on her pedal sewing machine when i was about 8 or 9, she had run a needle all the way thru her left index finger and couldn't finish a shirt i needed for skool [SIC] so she showed me how to pedal and feed the material at the same time on practice material, if you think pedaling and feeding material at the same time is easy, try riding a bicycle and writing a note at the same time.

 

[pismoe]

I only know enough sewing to stich up a hole or tear , fix a leather wallet with dental floss . I can do better and would like to buy a sewing machine to make a or some synthetic camping quilts / sleeping bags of my own design , maybe some day . --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Incident COMMANDER ' tada ' [funny] sounds like an important guy Candy and I suppose that he is wearing a special shiny hat !!

 

[pismoe]

and the hat says INCIDENT COMMANDER !!

 

[pismoe]

wot was the deal at Katrina Candy , why'd that work out the way that it did and I'm not being critical , I'm just asking . Was BROWNIE [think it was] the Incident Commander or was it Nagin or the lady governor of Louisiana [forgot her name] ?? All I remember with Katrina is guys from all over the USA coming into New Orleans and disarming little old ladies and others that rode out the storm .

 

[pismoe]

yeah, the lady governor of Louisiana was governor blanco I believe .

 

[candycorn]

FEMA teaches good bureaucracy. No wonder you're so clueless about neighborhoods taking care of themselves effectively. When Cletus decides to take over he'll be quickly judged on how good he is. If he's good, that frees someone else up for other needed tasks. If he sucks, he'll quickly learn that nobody wants to do what he tells them to do and will be replaced.

You've never done this for real so you can be excused for having the elitist view you have, but that doesn't make your analysis accurate.

You certainly have zero idea about what FEMA teaches if that is your view.

Just a quick question...those without weapons are "useless"....right? That would mean that Cletus has guns. What if Cletus doesn't feel like being replaced just yet.

----

Every successful response (including the real world ones I have taken part in) has had an incident commander directing the effort. Can you do it with several centers of power wasting resources and duplicating effort? No. Because both are in short supply during an emergency.

Anyway, the question was what would you do if faced with someone knocking on the door after a collapse. Can we assume we can put you in the "I've got mine, you get yours" column?

"Can you do it with several centers of power wasting resources and duplicating effort? No. Because both are in short supply during an emergency."

I think a few families can manage to survive without "wasting resources". Perhaps the smaller scale defies you? I doubt we need an incident commander to handle the resources we have. Each family group has their stores. We cooperate on what needs to be done as a group.

Sure...and when there is a disagreement?

Lets call them option "A" and "B". Those in the Option "A" camp think there should be action taken and those in the Option "B" camp feel that no action should be taken to let the woman and her 10 year old daughter into the compound.

Here is what happens. Those in the "A" camp open their doors to the girl, those in the "B" camp begin to shun the other group. This is the seeds of the breakdown. Lets say they were sharing fuel...oh oh. Suddenly the "B" group thinks that the woman and daughter are using too much fuel. So the supply line to "A" is cut. Or they were sharing patrolling duties (you can't your guard down for a second I tells ya!!!)...the "B" group patroller begins to explain the crazy math that these two extra mouths will doom them all. You think the "A" group dude is going to sit there and listen to it?

The idea of cooperation is fine as long as there are no variables and nothing unexpected happens.

Guess what...

The unexpected always happens.

Just an anecdote; during TS Allison in Houston in 2003 I think it was, the authorities relied on a media helicopter to take a transplanted organ to the Texas Medical Center because their air wing was over-run with rescues and search duties.

I'm sure if the preppers had the chopper the response would have been that the patient should have taken better care of their kidneys or something as equally compassionate.

 

[candycorn]

I am a lifelong southerner, and proud of it. Funny that you try to demean the redencks, and claim to know them. They can't be organized? Southern rednecks (I add "southern" because I have seen redneck almost every where) are very likely to also be veterans. I think they managed to accept leadership while serving. But since you choose to specifically demean Cletus, I will have to ask you which one he is, as far as our group goes. Is Cletus the plant worker? If so, Cletus did 2 tours in the US Marine Corp, reads science fiction like it's going out of style, plays mandolin in 2 blue grass bands, and was a foreman at a local cabinet manufacturing plant. Or is Cletus the fire fighter? If so, he has worked summers out west for the last 5 or 6 years fighting wild fires, has a wife and 3 kids (kids are honor roll students), owns a significant chunk of land he paid for with the wages of a fireman. Or is Cletus the farmer? If so, Cletus is retired from the US Navy (submarine service, like me), grew up in the area but joined the Navy at 18, took over his father's farm when his dad died in the mid-90s which he turned into a moderately successful organic farm. Or is Cletus the mechanic? If so, he learned his craft from his dad, has been known to fix cars for nothing, so people can have a way to & from work, is a deacon in his church, has a wife and 2 little girls that he adores, and raises quarter horses. Or is Cletus the grouchy old fart that retired from the US Postal service, has published 4 novels, 1 collection of poems, and repairs guitars and other stringed instruments as a hobby?


You see, you like to make judgements about people without knowing them. These are the guys I met when I moved to the rural area in east central Alabama back in 2001. None of them look like anything remarkable. All of them deer hunt, farm and like to sit around a campfire drinking a beer. All of them own a pickup truck or a Jeep. And every one of them would be the people who stopped on the side of the road to help you if your car broke down or you had an accident. All of them are will be right up front when there are calls for donations to help people they don't know who suffered a tornado, hurricane or earthquake's wrath.

You think you know "rednecks"? I think you simply like to look down your nose at people, without actually knowing them at all.

Touch a nerve?

Its probably a good idea to stop when you have to enumerate the ways some one has contributed to society. Whenever some redneck talks that way about blacks or women, I do the same thing and, inevitably, the come-back is...there are X million in the country...you named 10 who made a contribution!!!!

Besides...the fiercely independent types are the ones I speaking of. Don't pretend you didn't know that. Pfft.

Oh, so you only meant a small subset of them? But I am remiss for pointing out that the majority that I know don't fit your profile? lol

You were the one claiming we would not survive because of what you know about rednecks. I thought, perhaps, you might understand better if I gave you details.

And I think that when people base their view of an entire portion of society on stereotypes, it is the perfect time to enumerate the ways in which they are wrong. Any time you use a stereotype like that to demean an entire group, you are obviously showing ignorance. Were I to do the same concerning blacks, hispanics or women, you would have no problem calling me on it.

Fair enough.

Which ties back to my thesis that I think 8 out of 10 preppers would render some sort of meaningful aid to the woman and her child and not use them as fertilizer or for sexual pleasure as some here have said.

 

[Againsheila]

You certainly have zero idea about what FEMA teaches if that is your view.

Just a quick question...those without weapons are "useless"....right? That would mean that Cletus has guns. What if Cletus doesn't feel like being replaced just yet.

----

Every successful response (including the real world ones I have taken part in) has had an incident commander directing the effort. Can you do it with several centers of power wasting resources and duplicating effort? No. Because both are in short supply during an emergency.

Anyway, the question was what would you do if faced with someone knocking on the door after a collapse. Can we assume we can put you in the "I've got mine, you get yours" column?

"Can you do it with several centers of power wasting resources and duplicating effort? No. Because both are in short supply during an emergency."

I think a few families can manage to survive without "wasting resources". Perhaps the smaller scale defies you? I doubt we need an incident commander to handle the resources we have. Each family group has their stores. We cooperate on what needs to be done as a group.

Sure...and when there is a disagreement?

Lets call them option "A" and "B". Those in the Option "A" camp think there should be action taken and those in the Option "B" camp feel that no action should be taken to let the woman and her 10 year old daughter into the compound.

Here is what happens. Those in the "A" camp open their doors to the girl, those in the "B" camp begin to shun the other group. This is the seeds of the breakdown. Lets say they were sharing fuel...oh oh. Suddenly the "B" group thinks that the woman and daughter are using too much fuel. So the supply line to "A" is cut. Or they were sharing patrolling duties (you can't your guard down for a second I tells ya!!!)...the "B" group patroller begins to explain the crazy math that these two extra mouths will doom them all. You think the "A" group dude is going to sit there and listen to it?

The idea of cooperation is fine as long as there are no variables and nothing unexpected happens.

Guess what...

The unexpected always happens.

Just an anecdote; during TS Allison in Houston in 2003 I think it was, the authorities relied on a media helicopter to take a transplanted organ to the Texas Medical Center because their air wing was over-run with rescues and search duties.

I'm sure if the preppers had the chopper the response would have been that the patient should have taken better care of their kidneys or something as equally compassionate.

I think you've watched too many prepper shows. Most preppers are like me, they are just trying to have enough in case of emergency. Like I said, one year of supplies for everyone. Three months is usually sufficient but there are idiots like the person who started this thread who will have nothing, so those of us who are prepared are going to have to share. This will only work if there are enough people like me, otherwise we will all die, and the insane people from those prepper shows will take over the world.

So what do you say? Gather your own year's supply of food? Save the world?

 

[Old Rocks]

I think that all who are prepping for the collapse should read Jared Diamond's "Collapse", historical accounts of what happened in real societal collapses. Seldom with a bang, mostly with a whimper.

Really, it is a natural disaster that poses the most challenge for most of us. From a strong hurricane, extroidinery flood, to a multi-state earthquake, thing West Coast or Central USA, Subduction zone, or New Madrid fault. Had the Fort Peck dam let go in 2011, much of the central US would have been flooded. And that was a very close thing. In cases like flooding or earthquakes, much of what is stored is ruined. From water or fire, read the accounts of the San Francisco 1906 quake.

 

[pismoe]

think that Candy is just part of the system , its where she makes her money , its her job and her first priority is the system where she and her Incident Commanders are the bosses as they command regular common people to Shelter in Place .

 

[pismoe]

think you make sense if the event is a local event Old Rocks . San Francisco fire or the big quake in California might ruin stuff in those areas but the prepared person in the U.P. of Michigan will be good as he stays prepared for the [fantastically] imagined EMP or societal collapse in Detroit .

 

[pismoe]

TS ALLISON is Tropical Storm Allison for anyone like me that didn't know . It happened in June of 2001 .

 

[Againsheila]

I think that all who are prepping for the collapse should read Jared Diamond's "Collapse", historical accounts of what happened in real societal collapses. Seldom with a bang, mostly with a whimper.

Really, it is a natural disaster that poses the most challenge for most of us. From a strong hurricane, extroidinery flood, to a multi-state earthquake, thing West Coast or Central USA, Subduction zone, or New Madrid fault. Had the Fort Peck dam let go in 2011, much of the central US would have been flooded. And that was a very close thing. In cases like flooding or earthquakes, much of what is stored is ruined. From water or fire, read the accounts of the San Francisco 1906 quake.

Fire is a fear, but most of my stuff is water proof. I also, keep some small amount of supplies away from my house, just in case of fire.

 

[candycorn]

think you make sense if the event is a local event Old Rocks . San Francisco fire or the big quake in California might ruin stuff in those areas but the prepared person in the U.P. of Michigan will be good as he stays prepared for the [fantastically] imagined EMP or societal collapse in Detroit .

SF72

Hence my 72 hour go-bag.

 

[pismoe]

you have your shiny hat in your go bag Candy ??

 

[candycorn]

think that Candy is just part of the system , its where she makes her money , its her job and her first priority is the system where she and her Incident Commanders are the bosses as they command regular common people to Shelter in Place .

My actual job involves credentialing and quality management for a large regional healthcare system. I'm also the traffic manager who makes sure you are moved through the system as fast as possible. ER wait time is up across the country. In my system, it's actually down. ER nose counts are growing across the country. In my system, we've seen nearly as many people already this CY as we did the entire last CY. More people seen daily, less wait time.

You're welcome.

As for disaster preparedness goes, I was named Logistics Section Chief by our incident commander. This does not mean I'm going to be at the JIC or Command Post for the overall event taking orders from someone like Thad Allen or Paul Musser. We have a command center set up at our admin office and our job is to be totally self-sufficient and be near total operating capacity for 72 hours maximum. We'll still be dong surgeries and treating patients

I have a deputy that would work 10 hours of the 24 hour day and I would work the other 14.

There is zero obligation for you to follow the advice of the incident commander, elected officials, or anyone else with enough good sense and is willing to share it with you. I will say that the best idea, most times, is to shelter in place. But feel free to do what you want to do.

I tend to think that the hundreds of millions (if not billions) of dollars spent on cities and counties being ready will kick in during a disaster. If you want to rely on what you can carry with you...be my guest.

 

[pismoe]

I don't use emergency rooms and when I did in the past for a broken bone or 2 I moved into and through the ER very nicely . As far as the gobag , most prepared people , preppers , survivalists have gobags .

 

[pismoe]

as far as the shelter in place concept , the phrase started , I don't know , think it was around the time of 9-11 [about] and I told the guy that told me the procedure that I was going to do what best suited ME and my family as we had already planned for emergency . Point is that the concept of Shelter in Place is fairly new and probably easily fed to the young , the naïve and those that have no experience . Course there are exceptions and at times there may be reasons to shelter in place but the point is that I'm the guy that makes the decisions .

 

[pismoe]

[just some comments even though no one asked] first responders , another fairly new name after 9-11 for what we always called firemen and cops , ambulance drivers and we paid them to do their jobs just like we paid the taxi driver . Thing is that these firemen , cops , first responders , incident commanders , logistics chiefs and deputies are paid by taxpayers and are just regular commoners , uh , doing the jobs that most begged for and are not Special classes of people . I thank them for their good work and tell them to pick up their check on Friday . As to authorities having no authority to boss regular people around that's not true but I have no examples to prove my point at the moment . Just some comments on some fairly new terms like shelter in place and first responders .

 

[pismoe]

no obligation to follow an incident commanders ADVICE until he starts issuing ORDERS and has the orders backed up by armed personal . See Katrina when that little old lady was slammed to her kitchen floor because she wouldn't hand over her .32 revolver Candy .