When Fascism seems normal we are in Serious Trouble

[Votto]

fascism or not?
~S~

Forcing a citizen to receive a vaccination renders them a "subject" rather than a "citizen" and such a practice would be consistent in a fascist, communist, or otherwise totalitarian society.

But Leftism and socialism is all about making everyone do and think the same things.

Leftism is fasicm.

 

[K9Buck]

Nationalism means whatever the government says it means. It can be the justification for great works or atrocity. It is mostly a means of control with no inherent good or evil. Leaders who speak the language of nationalism without making it clear they are public servants are never to be trusted.

Love of country and love of independence from foreign regimes is the backbone of nationalism. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.

It's sort of like knives. Are knives "good" or are they "bad"? Well, the answer is, it depends on how they're used. The same applies to nationalism.

In any event, accusing someone of being a "fascist" because they love their country is a very flawed argument.

 

[K9Buck]

Research it then. I gave substance. Educate yourself.

I am VERY well-read on history, politics, and economic models. You will desperately cling to your erroneous beliefs because you simply want to win an argument. But that's fine. Others here will read and LEARN from what I have shared here. Thanks for providing the opportunity to do so.

 

[zaangalewa]

You really need to read a book instead of just eating the covers off the book. Here is some reading. But please, read it and don't eat your monitor or phone.

Instead of becoming angry and insulting, you should be grateful and thank me for showing you the truth.

First off, Wikipedia is an AWFUL source for anything politically related.

As for "privatization", I already advised you earlier in this thread that Hitler did NOT "nationalize" industry, as Stalin did. There was no need to do so as Hitler simply coerced and blackmailed German industry into doing his will.

Hitler did use industry. But in 1933, Industry used Hitler. They both benefited and grew stronger and richer and more powerful. That is how Fascism works.

When Hitler entered a meeting of "industrial barons" one of his men announced "The leader is coming" - and everyone started spontanous to laugh loudly about the absurde behavior of this Charly Chaplin comedian. A little while later no one laughed any longer about Hitler, but lived in fear of him.

 

[K9Buck]

But Leftism and socialism is all about making everyone do and think the same things. Leftism is fasicm.

There are varying degrees of "leftism". There ae many leftists that SUPPORT free-market capitalism. So, no, not all leftists are fascists, but ALL fascists are leftists.

Most of Europe is, politically, to the left of the U.S., although that gap is closing as the U.S. moves even further to the left.

There are a fair number of American leftists that support communism or fascism (just don't call it fascism) but the majority of leftists do NOT support going that far to the left. Generally, they SUPPORT free-market capitalism but, like many European leftists, support a highly regulated economic system, high taxes, and many government programs such as extended (and paid) maternity leave and more.

 

[occupied]

Nationalism is a requirement for Fascism but not fascist in itself. A strong national identity is good only as long as the state serves the people rather than vice-versa.

On that we agree. Although I just discredited Wikipedia, I do AGREE with this Wikipedia definition of nationalism.


Nationalism - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Nationalism

Nationalism is an idea and movement that promotes the interests of a particular nation (as in a group of people), especially with the aim of gaining and maintaining the nation's sovereignty (self-governance) over its homeland.

Nationalism means whatever the government says it means. It can be the justification for great works or atrocity. It is mostly a means of control with no inherent good or evil. Leaders who speak the language of nationalism without making it clear they are public servants are never to be trusted.

I suppose it depends what you mean by nationalism. I mean, if you run as President and swear to represent the voters above foreign interests, is that nationalism or just doing your job? Why is it necessary to condemn Trump for saying he wants to do this?

But if nationalism means taking power away from the states and increasing federal power, that is what leads to fascism.

Is any of this reaching your brain cells yet?

Nationalism is a belief that the state is justified in their actions. No need to twist the definition into something self-serving. Should Trump seize power and attempt to rule by force that would be fascism yet there are a lot of Americans that would get behind that, at least until it started to hurt them, and never even think of themselves as fascist. Fascism is in part nationalism elevated to a quasi-religious level.

 

[Papageorgio]

The first and most ardent supporters of fascism are religious people. They are already primed for it because they have willingly structured their mind to accept things without question from their leaders. I have often wondered why this fact is often ignored by those taking a look at how free countries fall to authoritarianism.

Wow, that was quick, Hunt was just talking about this form of fueling hate and you jump right in with it. You seem to support the very thing you claim to be against.

 

[K9Buck]

Nationalism is a belief that the state is justified in their actions.

I have never heard it defined in this manner. Is this your definition or another's?

 

[occupied]

Nationalism means whatever the government says it means. It can be the justification for great works or atrocity. It is mostly a means of control with no inherent good or evil. Leaders who speak the language of nationalism without making it clear they are public servants are never to be trusted.

Love of country and love of independence from foreign regimes is the backbone of nationalism. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.

It's sort of like knives. Are knives "good" or are they "bad"? Well, the answer is, it depends on how they're used. The same applies to nationalism.

In any event, accusing someone of being a "fascist" because they love their country is a very flawed argument.

That's not what I said at all.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Nationalism is a requirement for Fascism but not fascist in itself. A strong national identity is good only as long as the state serves the people rather than vice-versa.

On that we agree. Although I just discredited Wikipedia, I do AGREE with this Wikipedia definition of nationalism.


Nationalism - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Nationalism

Nationalism is an idea and movement that promotes the interests of a particular nation (as in a group of people), especially with the aim of gaining and maintaining the nation's sovereignty (self-governance) over its homeland.

Nationalism means whatever the government says it means. It can be the justification for great works or atrocity. It is mostly a means of control with no inherent good or evil. Leaders who speak the language of nationalism without making it clear they are public servants are never to be trusted.

Here goes again.

Some things MUST be nationalized. Some things can't be.

You can't nationalize everything. Once a country reaches a certain point, it needs Private Businesses or Corporations to make money to pay for the social programs it needs to exist. Someone has to pay for those roads, water works, and such. Are you aware that even the Electric Lines aren't owned by the Power Companies, they are leased. But the Power Company is privately owned and operated. The Power Company could NOT afford to string all those lines. But they can afford to maintain and operate them. As I stated, some things can be privately owned while others must be nationalized.

In a Socialist Country, almost all major Industry is Nationalized. And that is why they fail sooner or later because things are just too complicated for the government to run things. Private Industry can do a better, more efficient job. A Socialist Country slowly slips into chaos and the next strongman that comes along plunges it into a dictatorship because the population will be primed for a revolution.

The other side of the coing, A Capitalist Country has the other side of the problem. The only roads or power it will have is only that that supports the Corporation. Sooner or a strongman comes by because the workers will be primed for a revolution. There can only be one. Not sustainable.

The answer is a mix of both. The two best government models is the Federal Republic and the Democratic Socialist. One has just a bit more social government programs than the other one but both have a mixture of Private Corporate and Social Programs.

 

[K9Buck]

Fascism is in part nationalism elevated to a quasi-religious level.

True, but communists could be described as being equally as zealous as fascists as evidenced by their over-the-top worship of government leaders, large military parades, and so forth.

 

[occupied]

Nationalism is a belief that the state is justified in their actions.

I have never heard it defined in this manner. Is this your definition or another's?

Do you disagree?

 

[Mac1958]

A lot of ugly things have been normalized over the past four years, but the VERY good news is that we recognized our mistake quickly.

It would have been a much different story if we had kept the ugliness going by re-electing it.

 

[K9Buck]

Hunt was just talking about this form of fueling hate...

Yea, and when I politely contradicted him and explained why he was mistaken, he resorted to personal attacks upon me.

 

[sparky]

Nationalism is a belief that the state is justified in their actions.

I have never heard it defined in this manner. Is this your definition or another's?

lotta semantics , what defines 'gub'mit control freaks' here.....?

~S~

 

[K9Buck]

Do you disagree?

I shared a definition of nationalism that I support so, yes, I DISAGREE with the definition that you provided.

 

[K9Buck]

lotta semantics , what defines 'gub'mit control freaks' here.....?

You quoted me, although I am not the poster that used those words.

 

[zaangalewa]

Nationalism means whatever the government says it means. It can be the justification for great works or atrocity. It is mostly a means of control with no inherent good or evil. Leaders who speak the language of nationalism without making it clear they are public servants are never to be trusted.

Love of country and love of independence from foreign regimes is the backbone of nationalism.

Patriotism. A patriot loves his country and understands everyone else who also loves his country. A nationalist thinks the own country is the only good country in the world and all others are evil rivals, which have to be eliminated. Nationalists love their country as long as the country is the best - and so it is per definitionem always the best. Patriots live with a bleeding heart, if their country is not really well. And patriots are also able to love other countries - what a nationalist is not able to do.

 

[K9Buck]

A lot of ugly things have been normalized over the past four years...

Did Trump use the IRS to prevent his political opponents from participating in the election process as President Obama did?

Did Trump spy on journalists, as President Obama did?

Did Trump coordinate a DOJ/FBI coup against his successor, as President Obama did?

Did Trump take steps to make sure that his uber-corrupt Secretary of State skate for her innumerable felonies, as President Obama did?

Did Trump set up a private, anonymous, email account to communicate to his corrupt SOS on his private, email server and then LIE and claim that he only heard of the private server after it "came out in the news" as President Obama did?

You're good for two things on this forum, a good laugh and for being a dedicated parrot.

 

[Mac1958]

A lot of ugly things have been normalized over the past four years...

Did Trump use the IRS to prevent his political opponents from participating in the election process as President Obama did?

Did Trump spy on journalists, as President Obama did?

Did Trump coordinate a DOJ/FBI coup against his successor, as President Obama did?

Did Trump take steps to make sure that his uber-corrupt Secretary of State skate for her innumerable felonies, as President Obama did?

Did Trump set up a private, anonymous, email account to communicate to his corrupt SOS on his private, email server and then LIE and claim that he only heard of the private server after it "came out in the news" as President Obama did?

You're good for two things on this forum, a good laugh and for being a dedicated parrot.

Clumsy deflection noted.