What would you do?

[Gunny]

I agree with you. If a people's freedoms and liberties would be taken away, it would be gradual and convincing and reasonable. It won't be sudden and shocking.

But what if it happens? And later, all the lies become exposed, all the people become aware of what is going on. What would happen then? What shall they do? Is it too late? Is it over?!

SO let's fast forward to the end ... are you going to point a finger at the US, or at Israel?

 

[TAS]

You're welcome. Which of the films did you see? Was it the one with John Hurt? That was closest to the dystopia that Orwell was portraying, the earlier one with Edmund O'Brien was a disgusting piece of 1950s anti-Communist propaganda that missed the whole point.

Your point about foreign authors. I'm shockingly Anglo-centric when it comes to literature, but that's what I get for being mono-lingual. Reading translations is good but I know I will always be limited because I don't have a second language in which I can read the originals.

We have, for a example, a lot of posters here who flog France and the French. But while they might have visited France they - like me - will never understand France or the French (I'm using them as an example, any other non-Anglophone country will do) and simply can't put themselves in the shoes of a French person to see the world through another culture's eyes.

Hi Diuretic
I saw the one with John Hurt. I watched it because I read that it was the best adaptation of the novel.

Regarding the French. It's ok. I don't understand them either

But seriously. I see that the internet is great tool for people to know more about the world that we are living in. One is not limited to his geography anymore. While I am here in the Middle East, I am able to access American message boards, read newspapers from all over the world that I don't have access to physically and for free, and know about almost anything else I like to know.
It's a shame that most of us only visit websites that are mimicking our physical presence. Some people I know only visit Arabic websites (news, music, entertainment, message boards, etc) rather than visiting foreign and different ones. I think that this is very limiting for our personal growth.

 

[TAS]

TAS, why do I get the feeling this is going to be about the Palestinians and Israelis?

Hi Kathianne
Not precisely. It's more about what a person shall do if he finds that he is not free. I was thinking about dictatorships more than an occupation by a different country.

Here in the Middle East, we are dealing with the issue in mostly 4 ways.
Some fight. They create secret organizations to inform and stir things up; others resort to terrorism. They get to be jailed, tortured and killed. Their power is no match to the government's power.
Some flee. Mostly they immigrate to the West.
The majority submit. They can't/don't want to fight and can't flee.
Some deny. They don't want to believe that they are living under a corrupt dictatorship with no rights, or they get monetary benefits for saying so.

So what is the right answer?
Any of them? none of them?

 

[TAS]

hi muslim-arab guy. Depends on the situation. Where do you live, and who's taking away your freedom?.

To make the best possible decision in any situation, one must have all the facts, as well as all the possible outcomes, good and bad, to any decisions ones makes.

does that make sense?

Hi actsnoblemartin
I understand what you are saying but I am talking more of an abstract situation than a specific one. You, living in country x, where you are not free. What would you do?

 

[TAS]

SO let's fast forward to the end ... are you going to point a finger at the US, or at Israel?

None. Not planning to blame the US or Israel in this thread. Maybe in a different one.

 

[Gunny]

None. Not planning to blame the US or Israel in this thread. Maybe in a different one.

I, for one, am tired of playing 20 questions. We're on Page 2. I'd like to hear your point.

 

[Annie]

Hi Kathianne
Not precisely. It's more about what a person shall do if he finds that he is not free. I was thinking about dictatorships more than an occupation by a different country.

Here in the Middle East, we are dealing with the issue in mostly 4 ways.
Some fight. They create secret organizations to inform and stir things up; others resort to terrorism. They get to be jailed, tortured and killed. Their power is no match to the government's power.
Some flee. Mostly they immigrate to the West.
The majority submit. They can't/don't want to fight and can't flee.
Some deny. They don't want to believe that they are living under a corrupt dictatorship with no rights, or they get monetary benefits for saying so.

So what is the right answer?
Any of them? none of them?

While I tend to play alot with historical 'what ifs' I don't think I'm so good at unlikely hypotheticals. As for those in the ME, I am very curious who's had their 'freedoms' taken and by whom. I am coming at this with American eyes, I'm stuck with that.

It seems to me, that there is no where in the ME, sans Israel, where the people had many 'freedoms' as we know them. Thus how could they 'suddenly' taken away?

 

[mattskramer]

The question is far too vague for a brief and adequate reply.

How and to what extent am I not free?
Am I in a cage? Are there hidden cameras in my house?
Who has removed my freedom? Has freedom been removed from all over the world?

Please provide more specific detail and I can provide a clear and concise reply.

 

[no1tovote4]

Hi or Salam
What would you do if you woke-up one morning and found that your freedom and liberty were taken away from you? That you are not free anymore? What would you do?

Go camping with my family.

 

[mattskramer]

Go camping with my family.

What if the freedom and liberty that was removed from you included the freedom and liberty to go camping with your family? As I said, the question is too vague without there being more detail.

 

[Shattered]

What if the freedom and liberty that was removed from you included the freedom and liberty to go camping with your family? As I said, the question is too vague without there being more detail.

*poke* It's a bullshit question. The fact that there's probably close to 50 posts in this thread, and it still has no point should have told you that.

 

[no1tovote4]

What if the freedom and liberty that was removed from you included the freedom and liberty to go camping with your family? As I said, the question is too vague without there being more detail.

Hence my equally vague answer that really had no meaning.

 

[TAS]

First, I want to say that the point of this thread is "what-if". We here in the Middle East are living under dictatorships with very limited freedoms and rights. We were led to believe that giving up rights for security ("the enemies are planning against us) and economic development ("to attract foreign investments, we need security) is crucial. After discovering the lies, people became confused, and started asking themselves "What is to be done?"
With the confusion and chaos, our societies started producing perverted reasoning, like suicide bombings ("killing civilians is ok if it leads for freedom"), corruption ("Everyone steals, why not me?"), submission and resignation ("I don't want any trouble"), etc

To make the what-if scenario more clear:
- The country is ruled by one party (or precisely one family or one clan) for decades and next generation is being groomed to be future rulers
- Police state: Checkpoints, phone tapping, etc
- No elections or fake ones
- Talking politics is not a good idea. Becoming a member of a political or a religious group is really not a very good idea.
- Systematic torture. The police can abuse you and you can't do anything about it. You can be imprisoned for a long time without a trial and with no one knowing anything about you
- Corruption:
o The ruling family and its people are the richest people in the country.
o Small gov employees must be paid in order for them to finish your papers (establishing a business, construction permit, etc)
o You can import expired products, build a weak building, and do whatever as long as you pay the right people
o If you do good in business and start becoming rich, you will find someone from the top coming to you and "asking" that he become a partner with you or else

If anyone interested in having an open discussion about this issue, please do. I don't see myself as having a right point of view in this matter that I have to convince you with. Just a topic that we are struggling with her in the Middle East and I was interested in hearing other's opinions about it especially from people who believe in the rights of Freedom & Liberty.

 

[Paul Revere]

You know, I'd like to think that I would seek out like minded people and form an organized resistance, attempt to regain what we had lost. This would be most effective if the freedoms and liberties are taken away suddenly, all at once. The shock of this loss would, I believe, stir people to action

The truth is, if we were to lose freedoms and liberties, our rights in the U.S., it would be so gradual few would notice, and those who spoke out would be ignored as crackpots. By the time people started to pay attention, it would be too late.

FOR A MESSAGE FROM

And Now Der Führer

 

[Shattered]

Dude.. You seriously need to stop the shit. If you don't know how to use Photoshop to edit your ridiculous ******* pictures down to something normal, don't ******* post them.

And, you're wrong.. It's not a "moderators problem" - it's your ******* problem.

Stop the shit.

 

[Gunny]

Dude.. You seriously need to stop the shit. If you don't know how to use Photoshop to edit your ridiculous ******* pictures down to something normal, don't ******* post them.

And, you're wrong.. It's not a "moderators problem" - it's your ******* problem.

Stop the shit.

Where does he say it's a moderator's problem? I got a real quick solution of he wants ME to fix it.

 

[Shattered]

Where does he say it's a moderator's problem? I got a real quick solution of he wants ME to fix it.

In whatever thread the delapitated trailer was posted.. You told him to resize it, or you'd delete it.. He said he can't, and that's a moderators problem...

...stir..stir..stir...

 

[roomy]

(removed pics to save space, if you want to see them scroll up)

WHOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH YOU ******* THICK BASTARD IDIOT........why should we have to put up with this bullshit?

 

[mattskramer]

You know, I'd like to think that I would seek out like minded people and form an organized resistance, attempt to regain what we had lost. This would be most effective if the freedoms and liberties are taken away suddenly, all at once. The shock of this loss would, I believe, stir people to action

The truth is, if we were to lose freedoms and liberties, our rights in the U.S., it would be so gradual few would notice, and those who spoke out would be ignored as crackpots. By the time people started to pay attention, it would be too late.

I agree with your first paragraph as a reply to the question.

I disagree with your second paragraph. I give people more credit. They understand our political process and at some point while our freedoms are slowly being removed, they would say that enough is enough, and would vote in people who would restore our freedoms.

Sometimes we become too conservative and we vote in liberals. Sometimes we become to liberal and we vote in a conservative. The same applies to issues of freedom and security. While Ben Franklin may have said many popular and insightful things, I disagree with his statement on liberty and security. There should be a balance. The question becomes where to draw the line – and that is what the people will decide on.

 

[Diuretic]

First, I want to say that the point of this thread is "what-if". We here in the Middle East are living under dictatorships with very limited freedoms and rights. We were led to believe that giving up rights for security ("the enemies are planning against us) and economic development ("to attract foreign investments, we need security) is crucial. After discovering the lies, people became confused, and started asking themselves "What is to be done?"
With the confusion and chaos, our societies started producing perverted reasoning, like suicide bombings ("killing civilians is ok if it leads for freedom"), corruption ("Everyone steals, why not me?"), submission and resignation ("I don't want any trouble"), etc

To make the what-if scenario more clear:
- The country is ruled by one party (or precisely one family or one clan) for decades and next generation is being groomed to be future rulers
- Police state: Checkpoints, phone tapping, etc
- No elections or fake ones
- Talking politics is not a good idea. Becoming a member of a political or a religious group is really not a very good idea.
- Systematic torture. The police can abuse you and you can't do anything about it. You can be imprisoned for a long time without a trial and with no one knowing anything about you
- Corruption:
o The ruling family and its people are the richest people in the country.
o Small gov employees must be paid in order for them to finish your papers (establishing a business, construction permit, etc)
o You can import expired products, build a weak building, and do whatever as long as you pay the right people
o If you do good in business and start becoming rich, you will find someone from the top coming to you and "asking" that he become a partner with you or else

If anyone interested in having an open discussion about this issue, please do. I don't see myself as having a right point of view in this matter that I have to convince you with. Just a topic that we are struggling with her in the Middle East and I was interested in hearing other's opinions about it especially from people who believe in the rights of Freedom & Liberty.

That's a fascinating, if un-nerving insight into your situation TAS. I would assume you've kept your location very general to protect yourself. Just my assumption, as I said. I'd warrant though that our governments tell us that your country is a democracy.