What the heck is the story

[The VOR]

What elites and what piece of corruption are you talking about?

You think Marc Rich deserved a pardon?

I didn't say anything about Marc Rich one way or the other. I was answering your question asking why the American people put up with presidential pardons.

Even forest gump has more integrity that you.

That's just fucking sad, you pathological lying psycho.....

LOL. You are certifiably insane.

 

[The VOR]

What elites and what piece of corruption are you talking about?

You think Marc Rich deserved a pardon?

I didn't say anything about Marc Rich one way or the other. I was answering your question asking why the American people put up with presidential pardons.

IMO it is a form of corruption. Think not? Okay, why should a person close to the president get a presidential pardon but Joe Blow doesn't?

What can I tell you, take it up with the Senate and have them amend the Constitution.

All I did was answer your question, SMH.

 

[Juicin]

Hillary wanted to be president so she could pardon Epstein. That's how sick liberals are, instead he got Clintonsuicided.

What?

Trump was gonna pardon him everyone knows that

Melania said it on twitter

 

[DOTR]

with Presidential pardons? I think I made a thread on this on this board when Obama was first elected. I still can't get my head around why the American people allow this to happen.

I thought you were all citizens as opposed to subjects. Aren't the people running your country held to the same standard as normal folk in your country, or do the rich get a free pass?

And no, this isn't a partisan thread. The first time I heard of these presidential pardons was when Clinton pardoned Marcell Reich. Thought it was outrageous (still do). Then I heard about Ford and Nixon, too.

Executive pardon is a sanctified bulwark of liberty in all Anglo-Saxon countries. Your head of state, Queen Elizabeth, exercises the same power in New Zealand through her Governor General.

 

[jknowgood]

Hillary wanted to be president so she could pardon Epstein. That's how sick liberals are, instead he got Clintonsuicided.

What?

Trump was gonna pardon him everyone knows that

Melania said it on twitter

Yeah pardon someone who you banned from your resort. But hey Clinton went to the island ditching his guard detail.

 

[flacaltenn]

Trump isn't the guilty one, Obama is. We all know it.

But I support the President pardoning the fucking traitor Obama.

For shits and giggles I'll play the game. Let's pretend for a second that Obama has done something wrong. Why should he be pardoned?
I lift a sprite from the local 7-11 and get sprung and found guilty of theft. Can I get a pardon, too? First offence and everything?

People are ABUSED by criminal justice in large numbers for one thing.. Like folks who go to jail on the evidence of a "snitch" who's been offered a "plea deal" to lie about someone or something.. Prosecutors withhold evidence (on purpose) and coroners' are sometimes corrupt...

It's a realization that our system is flawed fundamentally... And that people who have been convicted can HONESTLY atone for their crimes while incarcerated.

Political pardons are even more important -- because political trials and convictions are even MORE notoriously rigged in some way... Look at the fight right NOW over extraditing Jullian Assange.. There's really not a lot of "justice" going on there, but the guy is DOOMED to be incarcerated and kept SILENT for the rest of his life, because POWER is afraid of what he might disclose..

Or even stickier cases like Edward Snowden.., WARNED the public about the dangers of abuse of the NSA "big brother" Domestic Surveillance system and NOW this country's spent 3 or 4 YEARS waking up to find out that THAT SYSTEM has been abused for political reasons..

When Trump can find some Dear old lady who's serving WAAY too much time for a non-violent drug offense -- WTFuck is wrong with that??? Makes her a pointer to BROADER justice reforms...

 

[Dr Grump]

What can I tell you, take it up with the Senate and have them amend the Constitution.

All I did was answer your question, SMH.

Not interested in literal answers. And if you don't want to debate the issue, then I don't see the point of answering. You've told me nothing I don't know already.

 

[Dr Grump]

Trump isn't the guilty one, Obama is. We all know it.

But I support the President pardoning the fucking traitor Obama.

For shits and giggles I'll play the game. Let's pretend for a second that Obama has done something wrong. Why should he be pardoned?
I lift a sprite from the local 7-11 and get sprung and found guilty of theft. Can I get a pardon, too? First offence and everything?

People are ABUSED by criminal justice in large numbers for one thing.. Like folks who go to jail on the evidence of a "snitch" who's been offered a "plea deal" to lie about someone or something.. Prosecutors withhold evidence (on purpose) and coroners' are sometimes corrupt...

It's a realization that our system is flawed fundamentally... And that people who have been convicted can HONESTLY atone for their crimes while incarcerated.

Political pardons are even more important -- because political trials and convictions are even MORE notoriously rigged in some way... Look at the fight right NOW over extraditing Jullian Assange.. There's really not a lot of "justice" going on there, but the guy is DOOMED to be incarcerated and kept SILENT for the rest of his life, because POWER is afraid of what he might disclose..

Or even stickier cases like Edward Snowden.., WARNED the public about the dangers of abuse of the NSA "big brother" Domestic Surveillance system and NOW this country's spent 3 or 4 YEARS waking up to find out that THAT SYSTEM has been abused for political reasons..

When Trump can find some Dear old lady who's serving WAAY too much time for a non-violent drug offense -- WTFuck is wrong with that??? Makes her a pointer to BROADER justice reforms...

I agree with most of that...to a degree.

In saying that I would hate to be left to the machinations of the US justice system.

 

[Dr Grump]

Executive pardon is a sanctified bulwark of liberty in all Anglo-Saxon countries. Your head of state, Queen Elizabeth, exercises the same power in New Zealand through her Governor General.

True. However, "....the grant of a pardon is extremely rare..."

The Royal prerogative of mercy

Important notice regarding the Royal prerogative of mercy From 1 July 2020, there are going to be changes to the Royal prerogative of mercy that will affect people who want to apply to re-open a criminal case.

gg.govt.nz

And I doubt you can find one example where the Queen or GG has pardoned somebody like Mark Rich who was 100 per cent guilty of pretty serious crimes. In fact, I can't remember a case where the GG has pardoned anybody. I am sure there is a an example. Certainly not 330 people in one day. Lucky to get one a decade I reckon. Then it would be soundly based on law, not who my friends are.

 

[OldLady]

You ever known a divorcing couple so full of toxic, blinding hate for each other that both of them were totally off their rockers? That's where the US was when Nixon left office. Kind of like we are now. Once Trump is gone, shut up about him. He's that toxic to us. And the whole Nixon thing was the same way. Flush. Gone.

So if Trump is guilty of crimes he should get a pardon?
Don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less, just wondering if people are as forgiving.

This has nothing to do with forgiving. It's about trying to put this country back together. We WILL vote him out of office and have a nice boring four years with an appropriate president. I don't want to hear about TRUMP nonstop for another two or three years while his trial is pending. Nuh uh. Putting the guy in jail might be justice, but too high a price, if you ask me. I doubt if I'm in the majority, though.

 

[flacaltenn]

Trump isn't the guilty one, Obama is. We all know it.

But I support the President pardoning the fucking traitor Obama.

For shits and giggles I'll play the game. Let's pretend for a second that Obama has done something wrong. Why should he be pardoned?
I lift a sprite from the local 7-11 and get sprung and found guilty of theft. Can I get a pardon, too? First offence and everything?

People are ABUSED by criminal justice in large numbers for one thing.. Like folks who go to jail on the evidence of a "snitch" who's been offered a "plea deal" to lie about someone or something.. Prosecutors withhold evidence (on purpose) and coroners' are sometimes corrupt...

It's a realization that our system is flawed fundamentally... And that people who have been convicted can HONESTLY atone for their crimes while incarcerated.

Political pardons are even more important -- because political trials and convictions are even MORE notoriously rigged in some way... Look at the fight right NOW over extraditing Jullian Assange.. There's really not a lot of "justice" going on there, but the guy is DOOMED to be incarcerated and kept SILENT for the rest of his life, because POWER is afraid of what he might disclose..

Or even stickier cases like Edward Snowden.., WARNED the public about the dangers of abuse of the NSA "big brother" Domestic Surveillance system and NOW this country's spent 3 or 4 YEARS waking up to find out that THAT SYSTEM has been abused for political reasons..

When Trump can find some Dear old lady who's serving WAAY too much time for a non-violent drug offense -- WTFuck is wrong with that??? Makes her a pointer to BROADER justice reforms...

I agree with most of that...to a degree.

In saying that I would hate to be left to the machinations of the US justice system.

There's a lot of work to be done to make it fair and just.. But the MAJORITY of that work is LOCAL, not Federal.. And it's based on local politicians looking the other way... Because of "mob infiltration" or other organized crime that has ENOUGH political influence to CORRUPT the police dept as well...

 

[OldLady]

Trump is the best president we ever had, and the cleanest. Mueller made that a fact.

I think he's been involved in serious money laundering with the Russians. Manhattan is overrun with Russian mob, and Trump was a real estate tycoon in Manhattan. After his bankruptcies, Deutsch Bank gave him the name of Russians who might be willing to give him some financial help. It's clear from Trump's words and actions that he hasn't a moral scruple to his name, so what's to wonder at? There was the very strange reversal of approach in one of those Russian money laundering cases a few months after Trump was inaugurated, put in Sessions and fired Preet Bharara. Suddenly we settled for chump change instead of the Russians being prosecuted full bore, as Bharara had planned.

I think Trump's dirty. Mueller never looked at any of that. That's someone else's job, and the US Attorney, Southern District of New York is no doubt ready willing and able, once Trump can no longer hide behind the Presidency in keeping his records secret. But like I said, I'd prefer we let him slink off into the sunset, leaving a slime trail behind him that we can scrub from the floor.

 

[jknowgood]

Trump is the best president we ever had, and the cleanest. Mueller made that a fact.

I think he's been involved in serious money laundering with the Russians. Manhattan is overrun with Russian mob, and Trump was a real estate tycoon in Manhattan. After his bankruptcy's, Deutsch Bank gave him the name of Russians who might be willing to give him some financial help. It's clear from Trump's words and actions that he hasn't a moral scruple to his name, so what's to wonder at? There was the very strange reversal of approach in one of those Russian money laundering cases a few months after Trump was inaugurated, put in Sessions and fired Preet Bharara. Suddenly we settled for chump change instead of the Russians being prosecuted full bore, as Bharara had planned.

I think Trump's dirty. Mueller never looked at any of that. That's someone else's job, and the US Attorney, Southern District of New York is no doubt ready willing and able, once Trump can no longer hide behind the Presidency in keeping his records secret. But like I said, I'd prefer we let him slink off into the sunset, leaving a slime trail behind him that we can scrub from the floor.

If you don't think mueller and his big team of TRUMP hating prosecutors didn't look at everything. I got land on the moon i'll sell ya!. He ruined his reputation not being able to get Trump on anything, anything at all.

 

[Dr Grump]

If you don't think mueller and his big team of TRUMP hating prosecutors didn't look at everything. I got land on the moon i'll sell ya!. He ruined his reputation not being able to get Trump on anything, anything at all.

Only true-blue Trump acolytes believe Mueller had nothing. The rest of us, know he had something. Don't take Barr's partisan hackery as a get out of jail free card for the Orange Buffoon. Not everybody drinks Kool-Aid.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

with Presidential pardons? I think I made a thread on this on this board when Obama was first elected. I still can't get my head around why the American people allow this to happen.

I thought you were all citizens as opposed to subjects. Aren't the people running your country held to the same standard as normal folk in your country, or do the rich get a free pass?

And no, this isn't a partisan thread. The first time I heard of these presidential pardons was when Clinton pardoned Marcell Reich. Thought it was outrageous (still do). Then I heard about Ford and Nixon, too.

The issue isn’t the authority to pardon per se, but the abuse thereof.

That someone may be able to do something doesn’t necessarily mean that he should.

The original intent was that pardons be rare and used to address cases where a sentence may have been too harsh, where there may have been mitigating circumstances concerning the conviction, where new evidence has come to light, or where the person pardoned has indeed reformed himself, has led an exemplary life, and given back to society.

The authority to pardon was meant to be an instrument of compassion, forgiveness, and reconciliation.

 

[OldLady]

Trump is the best president we ever had, and the cleanest. Mueller made that a fact.

I think he's been involved in serious money laundering with the Russians. Manhattan is overrun with Russian mob, and Trump was a real estate tycoon in Manhattan. After his bankruptcy's, Deutsch Bank gave him the name of Russians who might be willing to give him some financial help. It's clear from Trump's words and actions that he hasn't a moral scruple to his name, so what's to wonder at? There was the very strange reversal of approach in one of those Russian money laundering cases a few months after Trump was inaugurated, put in Sessions and fired Preet Bharara. Suddenly we settled for chump change instead of the Russians being prosecuted full bore, as Bharara had planned.

I think Trump's dirty. Mueller never looked at any of that. That's someone else's job, and the US Attorney, Southern District of New York is no doubt ready willing and able, once Trump can no longer hide behind the Presidency in keeping his records secret. But like I said, I'd prefer we let him slink off into the sunset, leaving a slime trail behind him that we can scrub from the floor.

If you don't think mueller and his big team of TRUMP hating prosecutors didn't look at everything. I got land on the moon i'll sell ya!. He ruined his reputation not being able to get Trump on anything, anything at all.

Here's one article on it. I've heard several say the same.

SPECIAL COUNSEL Robert Mueller's sweeping report into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election does not appear to tap into President Donald Trump's personal finances – a vein of inquiry the president had said would constitute crossing a red line.
[ READ: The Mueller Report Findings in Full ]
The 400-page report, some of which is redacted and unreadable, details various attempts by heads of Russian banks to ingratiate themselves with individuals associated with the Trump campaign in an effort to head off anticipated sanctions from the U.S. and also describes the particulars of proposed real estate business deals to develop a Trump skyscraper in Moscow.
But the two-volume report does not appear to assess the president's personal finances or those of the Trump Organization, including past business deals with Deutsche Bank.

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2019-04-18/mueller-report-doesnt-cross-red-line-into-trumps-finances

 

[jknowgood]

If you don't think mueller and his big team of TRUMP hating prosecutors didn't look at everything. I got land on the moon i'll sell ya!. He ruined his reputation not being able to get Trump on anything, anything at all.

Only true-blue Trump acolytes believe Mueller had nothing. The rest of us, know he had something. Don't take Barr's partisan hackery as a get out of jail free card for the Orange Buffoon. Not everybody drinks Kool-Aid.

If he had something he would've used it.

 

[jknowgood]

Trump is the best president we ever had, and the cleanest. Mueller made that a fact.

I think he's been involved in serious money laundering with the Russians. Manhattan is overrun with Russian mob, and Trump was a real estate tycoon in Manhattan. After his bankruptcy's, Deutsch Bank gave him the name of Russians who might be willing to give him some financial help. It's clear from Trump's words and actions that he hasn't a moral scruple to his name, so what's to wonder at? There was the very strange reversal of approach in one of those Russian money laundering cases a few months after Trump was inaugurated, put in Sessions and fired Preet Bharara. Suddenly we settled for chump change instead of the Russians being prosecuted full bore, as Bharara had planned.

I think Trump's dirty. Mueller never looked at any of that. That's someone else's job, and the US Attorney, Southern District of New York is no doubt ready willing and able, once Trump can no longer hide behind the Presidency in keeping his records secret. But like I said, I'd prefer we let him slink off into the sunset, leaving a slime trail behind him that we can scrub from the floor.

If you don't think mueller and his big team of TRUMP hating prosecutors didn't look at everything. I got land on the moon i'll sell ya!. He ruined his reputation not being able to get Trump on anything, anything at all.

Here's one article on it. I've heard several say the same.

SPECIAL COUNSEL Robert Mueller's sweeping report into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election does not appear to tap into President Donald Trump's personal finances – a vein of inquiry the president had said would constitute crossing a red line.
[ READ: The Mueller Report Findings in Full ]
The 400-page report, some of which is redacted and unreadable, details various attempts by heads of Russian banks to ingratiate themselves with individuals associated with the Trump campaign in an effort to head off anticipated sanctions from the U.S. and also describes the particulars of proposed real estate business deals to develop a Trump skyscraper in Moscow.
But the two-volume report does not appear to assess the president's personal finances or those of the Trump Organization, including past business deals with Deutsche Bank.

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2019-04-18/mueller-report-doesnt-cross-red-line-into-trumps-finances

If Muller found anything, he would've used it.

 

[Dr Grump]

If he had something he would've used it.

He did. But Barr stopped him. Do you even read the news?

 

[jknowgood]

If he had something he would've used it.

He did. But Barr stopped him. Do you even read the news?

Yes I heard Mueller said himself he doesn't have anything.