Zone1 What rituals are necessary for salvation?

[markef]

As Moshiach ben David I believe that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus, [Messiah the Passover Lamb], can take anybody that he wants into the highest levels of paradise or heaven no matter what ritual that person has been able to do, [or has not been able to do]. The thief on the cross, [ or massive dead fig tree beside him], was unable to perform baptism or any other ritual. The literal blood of Jesus very likely was blown by the wind onto him though.

God cannot forgive sins of sinners who do not put their faith in the shed blood of the Scrificial Lamb Jesus Christ.

 

[ding]

God eating is a very primitive concept. Its also not Kosher

Theophagy—the consumption of a god—originates from ancient ritual practices designed to internalize divine power, with roots in Greco-Roman, Egyptian, and other pagan traditions where sacrificial meals often involved eating the flesh of a god or symbolic substitutes.
Key Aspects of the Origin of God Eating:

• Ancient Roots and Theophagy: The term "theophagy" (god eating) describes the ritual consumption of a deity to absorb divine attributes. This was common in Greek rites, such as those for Dionysius, where a sacrificed animal represented the deity.
• Mythological Origins: Mythologically, early accounts like Hesiod’s Theogony (eighth century B.C.E.) feature Cronus swallowing his children to prevent them from seizing power.
• Ritual and Symbolic Meaning: In many traditions, this practice represents the fusion of sacrifice and communion, where eating the sacrificed deity or offering strengthens the connection between the human and divine.
• Eucharistic Evolution: While sometimes compared to ancient cannibalistic practices, the Christian Eucharist evolved within this context, with scholars pointing to its roots in both Jewish traditions and the wider Greco-Roman religious landscape, where eating the body/blood of a god was a practiced concept.

The way I see it is that God allowed himself to be convicted of creating an unfair world even when it was men who made the world unfair so that when people complained about the unfair world he created he would tell them he agreed and has already paid his debt. I think having to eat his flesh and drink his blood is the least we can do as everyone of us should be ashamed.

 

[ding]

God eating is a very primitive concept. Its also not Kosher

Theophagy—the consumption of a god—originates from ancient ritual practices designed to internalize divine power, with roots in Greco-Roman, Egyptian, and other pagan traditions where sacrificial meals often involved eating the flesh of a god or symbolic substitutes.
Key Aspects of the Origin of God Eating:

• Ancient Roots and Theophagy: The term "theophagy" (god eating) describes the ritual consumption of a deity to absorb divine attributes. This was common in Greek rites, such as those for Dionysius, where a sacrificed animal represented the deity.
• Mythological Origins: Mythologically, early accounts like Hesiod’s Theogony (eighth century B.C.E.) feature Cronus swallowing his children to prevent them from seizing power.
• Ritual and Symbolic Meaning: In many traditions, this practice represents the fusion of sacrifice and communion, where eating the sacrificed deity or offering strengthens the connection between the human and divine.
• Eucharistic Evolution: While sometimes compared to ancient cannibalistic practices, the Christian Eucharist evolved within this context, with scholars pointing to its roots in both Jewish traditions and the wider Greco-Roman religious landscape, where eating the body/blood of a god was a practiced concept.

You aren't the first person to be shocked by Jesus' command to eat his flesh and drink his blood. He lost a lot of disciples over that command.

1. Jesus said he was the bread of life and whoever ate this bread would have eternal life. John 6:48-51
2. The Jews quarreled and said how can this man give us his flesh to eat. John 6:52
3. So rather than softening his stance he doubled down and said very clearly, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. John 6:53
4. Afterwards his disciples said, this is hard to take. John 6:60
5. Jesus asked them, does this shock you. John 6:61
6. Then Jesus explained that it is the spirit that gives life. The flesh is of no avail. John 6:62-63
7. But they didn't believe in Jesus and they couldn't accept what he was saying because it shocked them like it is shocking you. As a result of this, many [of] his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. John 6:64-65

He let disciples walk away rather than to soften his stance and make it symbolic. He was given an opportunity to soften it and instead he reinforced what he said by saying the flesh is of no avail.

 

[The Irish Ram]

The Greek didn't use commas, so the placing of the comma after truth was arbitrary by the translators. It should be placed after today, thus,

"I tell you the truth today (at this time, now), you will be with me in paradise."

Did not use commas
The ancient Greeks did not use commas in the same way as modern punctuation. They utilized punctuation marks such as the colon ) and the Greek question mark (, which resemble modern punctuation but serve different functions. The Greek writing style, known as scriptio continua, was continuous without spaces or punctuation, relying on context and rhythm for clarity. While modern punctuation has evolved, the ancient Greeks' methods of reading and writing were distinct from contemporary practices.

greek-language.com+4

You also have to ask, just where did Jesus go on that day that he would have taken the thief with him, to the tomb? That's where Jesus went on that day.

But on that day, we know that Jesus went to Abraham's Bosom, and proclaimed to the fallen angels on the other side that He was victorious over them.
His body went to the tomb, He, risen from the clay body, had a destination for the following 3 days. He went to gather those waiting for Him in Abraham's Bosom, and return to earth with them according to Matthew:

Matthew 27:51-53 “At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people.”
Fallen asleep means died. Those souls who Christ brought back with Him were reunited with their renewed, but same bodies they left behind.

Jesus didn't do any of that from the tomb. He went somewhere. He continued to live as soon as He shed the clay exterior that encased His Spirit.

1 Peter 3:19 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit, in whom He also went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago.....

 

[Woodznutz]

But on that day, we know that Jesus went to Abraham's Bosom, and proclaimed to the fallen angels on the other side that He was victorious over them.
His body went to the tomb, He, risen from the clay body, had a destination for the following 3 days. He went to gather those waiting for Him in Abraham's Bosom, and return to earth with them according to Matthew. Jesus did none of that from the tomb. He continued to live as soon as He shed the clay exterior that encased His Spirit.

1 Peter 3:19 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit, in whom He also went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago.....

I wouldn't consider the place where the imprisoned spirits were to be paradise.

 

[Hafar1014]

You aren't the first person to be shocked by Jesus' command to eat his flesh and drink his blood. He lost a lot of disciples over that command.

1. Jesus said he was the bread of life and whoever ate this bread would have eternal life. John 6:48-51
2. The Jews quarreled and said how can this man give us his flesh to eat. John 6:52
3. So rather than softening his stance he doubled down and said very clearly, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. John 6:53
4. Afterwards his disciples said, this is hard to take. John 6:60
5. Jesus asked them, does this shock you. John 6:61
6. Then Jesus explained that it is the spirit that gives life. The flesh is of no avail. John 6:62-63
7. But they didn't believe in Jesus and they couldn't accept what he was saying because it shocked them like it is shocking you. As a result of this, many [of] his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. John 6:64-65

He let disciples walk away rather than to soften his stance and make it symbolic. He was given an opportunity to soften it and instead he reinforced what he said by saying the flesh is of no avail.

Im not shocked at all

 

[Hafar1014]

The way I see it is that God allowed himself to be convicted of creating an unfair world even when it was men who made the world unfair so that when people complained about the unfair world he created he would tell them he agreed and has already paid his debt. I think having to eat his flesh and drink his blood is the least we can do as everyone of us should be ashamed.

Life is neither fair or unfair. Humans create that. For you people its all about sin and suffering for the sake of suffering. Thats a mental disorder

 

[The Irish Ram]

I wouldn't consider the place where the imprisoned spirits were to be paradise.

It wasn't. Even though in a broader sense, the people in Abraham's Bosom were also detained until Christ came for them. There are 2 places described. They were separated by a deep chasm. One side comfort, one side agony. The souls in Abraham's Bosom were those who belong to God, but could not go to Him until their sins were paid for by Christ. As soon as Christ did that, He went to retrieve them. Those on the other side of the chasm will remain there until the White Thrown Judgment.

Luke 16: 25-26 But Abraham answered, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted here, while you are in agony. And besides all this, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that even those who wish cannot cross from here to you, nor can anyone cross from there to us.’