Zone1 What rituals are necessary for salvation?

[ding]

We have had many conversations about God. We have been talking for over a decade.
You are the one that brought it up, pagan

Yes, I did. I want her to see your true colors. She needs to see this.

 

[Woodznutz]

According to TN you should be blaming God for that.

God's laws of health might have protected me and my children had I obeyed them.

 

[TNHarley]

You're the one making it personal. You're the one trying to gaslight. You think these behaviors don't affect you but they do. They aren't like a light switch. These are bad habits which will result in predictable surprises in your life and those in your life. m

I dont need life advice from a narcissistic liar.

 

[ding]

I broke myself over God's laws for much of my life.

What do you mean?

 

[ding]

I dont need life advice from a narcissistic liar.

You will reap what you sow.

 

[TNHarley]

According to TN you should be blaming God for that.

So now you dont believe God created everything. Right pagan?

 

[ding]

So now you dont believe God created everything. Right pagan?

That's an impressive leap in logic.

 

[Woodznutz]

I hate that for you and your family. And its good you do contribute. I make a yearly donation. Its never much but I do. Its the only thing I give donations to.
My parents give yearly as well. When my sister died, my grandmother even put them in her will.
They were so good to us.

I give annually as well. I might give more but I support other charities that deal with illness and disfigurement (Smile Train).

 

[Woodznutz]

What do you mean?

Up until I was 30 I lived a profligate lifestyle. I was either sick or hungover most of the time. Broke as well as I spent everything on wine, women, and song.

 

[Meriweather]

So you think cancer is love in gods eye? I dont see where you are going.

No, I don't think cancer is love in God's eye. Love can overcome the effects of cancer, even when that cancer results in death. God's greatest concern is for our spiritual health. We are told not to fear what kills the body, but what kills the soul. Do not think I am dismissing the powerful effects of death on those who continue living. In a brief moment of time I lost my best friend, two dearly loved aunts, my dad, and my favorite cousin. I didn't think I could ever recover. Even something such as the death of a dearly loved rodent can tear at a person's spirit.

It's not the cancer, it's the resulting death--even a death from cancer of a great-grandmother who died young. Death wounds. It takes time to recover. And, it leaves its marks. Death is a part of this life, and so is our resurrection.

 

[TNHarley]

That's an impressive leap in logic.

Do you, or dont you? Answer the question.

 

[Woodznutz]

No, I don't think cancer is love in God's eye. Love can overcome the effects of cancer, even when that cancer results in death. God's greatest concern is for our spiritual health. We are told not to fear what kills the body, but what kills the soul. Do not think I am dismissing the powerful effects of death on those who continue living. In a brief moment of time I lost my best friend, two dearly loved aunts, my dad, and my favorite cousin. I didn't think I could ever recover. Even something such as the death of a dearly loved rodent can tear at a person's spirit.

It's not the cancer, it's the resulting death--even a death from cancer of a great-grandmother who died young. Death wounds. It takes time to recover. And, it leaves its marks. Death is a part of this life, and so is our resurrection.

Death is for the aged, not for the young. Too many treat life carelessly.

 

[Meriweather]

Death is for the aged, not for the young.

Death takes both.

 

[ding]

Up until I was 30 I lived a profligate lifestyle. I was either sick or hungover most of the time. Broke as well as I spent everything on wine, women, and song.

Ok, I wasn't sure what you meant before. Thanks for explaining.

 

[ding]

Do you, or dont you? Answer the question.

I believe God created existence and it evolved. I don't believe God pushes buttons, turns knobs or pulls levers. You want to blame God for everything that is bad while ignoring everything that is good, go right ahead.

 

[onefour1]

Jesus has required certain ordinances before one can enter the kingdom of heaven.

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In this verse Jesus is referring to baptism by water and the receiving of the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. Because of this requirement to be saved, vicarious ordinances for the dead were also instituted. During the millennial reign of Christ, Jesus will complete all vicarious ordinances for all who never had the opportunity to received them. It will be up to the individual to choose to receive these ordinances or not.


Acts 8:17
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:18
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

1 Corinthians 15:29
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

 

[SaxonJackson]

Growing up, I attended Catholic school and heard stories such as St. Monica's prayers for her son, St. Augustine; of how it was revealed to one wife whose atheist husband committed suicide in the last moment before his death saw the picture of the Sacred Heart of Jesus his wife had hung over their bed, reached out, and was with Christ; the story of how a tear for Christ, at the moment of death, saved another. A favorite parable of mine is the workers in the vineyard--that the ones who were there all day received the same wage as those who only worked those final minutes. As a young child, I wanted to be one of the people who worked all day. First of all, I enjoyed grapes, and second of all I was already in God's vineyard for the entire day, not just the final minutes. A whole day without the worry of having to look for another job, of knowing I would have enough to feed my family at the end of it.

God offers/extends his salvation to all of us at the beginning of our 'day'. The question is when do we wish to accept this salvation and begin celebrating? Do we want to be a part of salvation and its celebrations throughout our lives? Or, do we want it at the last minute, even the last second of this life where grieving family and friends still live?

Rituals are part and parcel of living our physical lives, and we take part in them, and we enjoy them (mostly). Why deprive our spiritual lives of the connections derived from ritual? The more who take part in these rituals, the greater the celebrations for all. And, the greater our connections. Rituals should be be easily dismissed. Recall the parable of those who were first called, but refused the invitation to the King's banquet because they had other responsibilities, the door that was locked against the virgins who were late to celebrating the arrival of the groom.

Again ... not saying that anyone should "deprive" themselves of anything. Simply saying that Christ has saved millions who may or may not have taken part in rituals. And there are likely millions of Christians who participate in rituals that are completely different than another denomination's set of rituals.

As for me, I pray when I feel called to. I thank God for my daily sustenance. I have been water baptized (full immersion in a natural river). I have taken communion on several occasions. But most importantly, I believe that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and that He is literally God in the flesh.

 

[The Irish Ram]

He didn't go to heaven; he went to his grave with the promise of being resurrected into the "paradise" of the restored millennial earth in his next conscious moment.

But Woodz, Jesus gave us the timeline. He said that very day.

Luke 23:43 "Jesus answered him, 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'"

Only their bodies went to the tombs. Their souls went to Paradise/Abraham's Bosom. Jesus confirmed that is where He was headed. None of those people's souls were sleeping. Matthew said Jesus brought all the souls in Abraham's Bosom back with Him. They retrieved their former bodies that we in the tombs and were now glorified. Those tombs are the ones that opened during the earthquake while Christ was on the cross.

I'm sorry to be so contrary, but you aren't going to sleep. You are going to Heaven to have a Coronation, and receive your crowns and robe because you are royalty. Your Father is the Most High. And you also will be reunited with your upgraded body, when it is time to return to Earth with Christ to rule and reign with our brother. We have work to do.

 

[SweetSue92]

So you dont argue against democrats? Or islamists?

Yes of course...but I have an eternity after this life. What do you have? Why aren't you making the very most?

 

[ding]

But Woodz, Jesus gave us the timeline. He said that very day.

Luke 23:43 "Jesus answered him, 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'"

Only their bodies went to the tombs. Their souls went to Paradise/Abraham's Bosom. Jesus confirmed that is where He was headed. None of those people's souls were sleeping. Matthew said Jesus brought all the souls in Abraham's Bosom back with Him. They retrieved their former bodies that we in the tombs and were now glorified. Those tombs are the ones that opened during the earthquake while Christ was on the cross.

I'm sorry to be so contrary, but you aren't going to sleep. You are going to Heaven to have a Coronation, and receive your crowns and robe because you are royalty. Your Father is the Most High. And you also will be reunited with your upgraded body, to rule and reign with our brother, Jesus. We have work to do.

Jesus said, "Take, eat; this is my body" (Matthew 26:26, Mark 14:22, Luke 22:19) and you do not read that literally, right?