Zone1 What rituals are necessary for salvation?

[Meriweather]

You dont have to be a scholar to read the OT, silly goose.

The extremely ignorant can do the same, but their conclusions are equally ignorant.

 

[MarcATL]

What rituals did the thief on the cross perform to go to Heaven?

I see what you did there...

 

[TNHarley]

No, again you are making up your own version. Jesus is living. Further back from that we have two examples of bread coming down from heaven. One was manna in the desert. The second is The Bread of the Presence. You say you know the Bible. If so, you should be able to tie all of these together and discover it has nothing to do with cannibalism.

No im not.
Jesus said eat my flesh. Thats what the ritual is about. Its symbolism. Its symbolic of his flesh and his blood. I went to church as a kid(luckily I grew out of that at a young age). I have read the bible through and through. Im not like you and make up things to justify silliness. You are a pagan like ding.
You people say the bible is so important to you, and then you rape it.

 

[TNHarley]

The extremely ignorant can do the same, but their conclusions are equally ignorant.

I know. I know. You have to make things up. I get it, pagan.

 

[Meriweather]

Its symbolism.

Only when one dismisses signs and miracles....

 

[ding]

No im not.

Yes, you are.

Jesus said eat my flesh. Thats what the ritual is about. Its symbolism. Its symbolic of his flesh and his blood.

Incorrect. He didn't say this bread represents my body and this wine represents my blood. He said take, eat, this IS my body. Take, drink, this IS my blood. He's bloody God, he can make his body and blood look and taste like anything he wants.

They were shocked just like you. So they questioned him about it and he doubled down in even more specific language. In the Greek translation he used words like chomp. So this freaks you out and you act like an ass about it in the most disrespectful way possible because this is how you deal with your inferiority complex.

You aren't the first person to be shocked by Jesus' command to eat his flesh and drink his blood. He lost a lot of disciples over that command.

1. Jesus said he was the bread of life and whoever ate this bread would have eternal life. John 6:48-51
2. The Jews quarreled and said how can this man give us his flesh to eat. John 6:52
3. So rather than softening his stance he doubled down and said very clearly, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. John 6:53
4. Afterwards his disciples said, this is hard to take. John 6:60
5. Jesus asked them, does this shock you. John 6:61
6. Then Jesus explained that it is the spirit that gives life. The flesh is of no avail. John 6:62-63
7. But they didn't believe in Jesus and they couldn't accept what he was saying because it shocked them like it is shocking you. As a result of this, many [of] his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. John 6:64-65

He let disciples walk away rather than to soften his stance and make it symbolic. He was given an opportunity to soften it and instead he reinforced what he said by saying the flesh is of no avail.

I went to church as a kid(luckily I grew out of that at a young age).

That must be why you are still talking about God.

I have read the bible through and through.

Without understanding any of it.

Im not like you and make up things to justify silliness.

You just read it literally and reject the literal reading yet expect everyone else to accept the literal reading. I've even used google AI to show how dumb your interpretations are and provided reasonable explanations that make sense. But that only ruins your gaslighting fun.

You are a pagan like ding.

I'm proud to be compared to Meriweather. And your name calling only reflects on you not us. I'm a pagan? Cool.

You people say the bible is so important to you, and then you rape it.

That would be you. You mock what you don't understand.

People mock what they don't understand primarily as a defense mechanism to manage fear, insecurity, and discomfort with the unknown. By belittling others, individuals often attempt to establish a false sense of superiority, assert dominance, or mask their own deep-seated feelings of inadequacy.

 

[ding]

I know. I know. You have to make things up. I get it, pagan.

If only you understood how badly this exchange makes you look.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Its not a strawman. Jesus supposedly said, "eat my flesh.'
I understand its spiritual "sustenance" but its still weird. He could have come up with something else besides cannibalism.
Learn the definition of a "strawman" dingus. Or read your bible. One or the other.

He said remember me.....when you do this. The bread is representative of the flesh about to be torn off of Christ's body. The wine, the blood He was about to shed. The wine replaced His blood.
Not one of those men thought Christ meant to bring their knives up and start wacking off squares of His arm and chowing down, or munching on a finger or two. Or puncturing a vein and filling their cups. He wasn't promoting cannibalism, He was using something the men did every day as a method for remembering. It was imperative for the disciples to remember His sacrifice considering the job they were about to undertake.

e.g.
This is my cake. When you eat it, remember the one who baked it. They aren't eating me, they are remembering me
and the work I did.

I think sometimes you play the devil's advocate.

 

[ding]

He said remember me.....when you do this. The bread is representative of the flesh about to be torn off of Christ's body. The wine, the blood He was about to shed. The wine replaced His blood.
Not one of those men thought Christ meant to bring their knives up and start wacking off squares of His arm and chowing down, or munching on a finger or two. Or puncturing a vein and filling their cups. He wasn't promoting cannibalism, He was using something the men did every day as a method for remembering. It was imperative for the disciples to remember His sacrifice considering the job they were about to undertake.

e.g.
This is my cake. When you eat it, remember the one who baked it. They aren't eating me, they are remembering me
and the work I did.

I think sometimes you play the devil's advocate.

I doubt he would say you have no life in you for not eating bread and drinking wine. Nor would he have said the flesh is of no avail unless the flesh is truly of no avail.

And as far as TN playing devil's advocate, I suggest you open your eyes. He hates the God of Abraham as much as he hates Abraham Lincoln. When TN says God is a homicidal, genocidal maniac, he truly means that. So just because he might be an ally in other forums, don't expect the same guy here. Or maybe he is the same guy here. Maybe he's that guy everywhere and you just look the other way because it is convenient.

 

[TNHarley]

He said remember me.....when you do this. The bread is representative of the flesh about to be torn off of Christ's body. The wine, the blood He was about to shed. The wine replaced His blood.
Not one of those men thought Christ meant to bring their knives up and start wacking off squares of His arm and chowing down, or munching on a finger or two. Or puncturing a vein and filling their cups. He wasn't promoting cannibalism, He was using something the men did every day as a method for remembering. It was imperative for the disciples to remember His sacrifice considering the job they were about to undertake.

e.g.
This is my cake. When you eat it, remember the one who baked it. They aren't eating me, they are remembering me
and the work I did.

I think sometimes you play the devil's advocate.

Well, of course, cannibalism is my word. And I understand its just symbolism but its still weird to me.
I love you ram, lol

 

[The Irish Ram]

Well, of course, cannibalism is my word. And I understand its just symbolism but its still weird to me.
I love you ram, lol

I love you too.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

No, again you are making up your own version. Jesus is living. Further back from that we have two examples of bread coming down from heaven. One was manna in the desert. The second is The Bread of the Presence. You say you know the Bible. If so, you should be able to tie all of these together and discover it has nothing to do with cannibalism.

.

What did the trick for me when I was converting, and thinking a lot about communion, Father Chris Alar explained it very succinctly, that what we are doing is consuming Christ's GLORIFIED body and blood. No sweat! I can eat God, for sure.

.

 

[Meriweather]

.

What did the trick for me when I was converting, and thinking a lot about communion, Father Chris Alar explained it very succinctly, that what we are doing is consuming Christ's GLORIFIED body and blood. No sweat! I can eat God, for sure.

.

Excellent!

 

[The Irish Ram]

I doubt he would say you have no life in you for not eating bread and drinking wine. Nor would he have said the flesh is of no avail unless the flesh is truly of no avail.

And as far as TN playing devil's advocate, I suggest you open your eyes. He hates the God of Abraham as much as he hates Abraham Lincoln. When TN says God is a homicidal, genocidal maniac, he truly means that. So just because he might be an ally in other forums, don't expect the same guy here. Or maybe he is the same guy here. Maybe he's that guy everywhere and you just look the other way because it is convenient.

Thing is, if you are correct, then TN is our brother whom the Holy Spirit hasn't convicted.
I want him sitting at the same royal table you and I will be sitting at for eternity. I want Him to know Christ on a personal level, not because of some dogmatic ritual, which maybe right or not.

Why not pray for TN. If prayer is a good thing, and God doesn't keep good things from us, then why not intercede on TN's behalf, and let God take care of TN.

Besides, if he loves me, he can't be all bad...

 

[ding]

Thing is, if you are correct, then TN is our brother whom the Holy Spirit hasn't convicted.
I want him sitting at the same royal table you and I will be sitting at for eternity. I want Him to know Christ on a personal level, not because of some dogmatic ritual, which maybe right or not.

Why not pray for TN. If prayer is a good thing, and God doesn't keep good things from us, then why not intercede on TN's behalf, and let God take care of TN.

Besides, if he loves me, he can't be all bad...

Whether I am right or wrong, TN is my brother just like everyone else is. The Holy Spirit convicts individuals by illuminating truth, bringing an awareness of sin, and drawing hearts toward God's righteousness and grace, often acting as a "light" that exposes sin. Based on John 16:8, this conviction focuses on sin (specifically unbelief), the righteousness of Jesus, and coming judgment, aiming for repentance and restoration rather than mere condemnation. I'm pretty sure TN is already well aware of his unbelief and doesn't care. Here's what he said in another thread:

Even if he showed himself to me right now, I wouldn't follow him.

So tell me, is this the Holy Spirit's fault? Or is this TN exercising his free will to not believe in God? Because this has nothing to do with Jesus' command to eat his flesh and drink his blood. This is about TN's deep hatred for God.

This isn't me trying to take care of TN. God will do what God will do. But in my opinion, TN will never change until he hits rock bottom and loses everything. This is about keeping his disease from infecting others. He's on a mission to subvert faith in God and you need to figure out which side you will stand with.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I get it, Ding, but is he worse than Paul? Paul killed Christians for a living, before he ran smack into Jesus. TN may never accept Christ, and that is on him. But we shouldn't be lax in our duty to pray on his behalf. I'm reminded of the woman on Duck Dynasty, whose prayers ended up creating an entire family of Evangelicals, and her efforts were generational.
The Bible tells us that one's prayers can save a household.
This is our house. These are the people we know.

1 Timothy 2:1 I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them.​

I'm thankful for you and all of your work here.

 

[ding]

I get it, Ding, but Is he worse than Paul? Paul killed Christians for a living, before he ran smack into Jesus. TN may never accept Christ, and that is on him. But we shouldn't be lax in our duty to pray on his behalf. I'm reminded of the woman on Duck Dynasty, whose prayers ended up creating an entire family of Evangelicals, and her efforts were generational.
The Bible tells us that one woman's prayers can save her house.
This is our house. These are the people we know.

1 Timothy 2:1 I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them.​

I try not to judge the person, just the behaviors. Not saying I'm perfect at that at all times. And whether TN ever accepts Christ isn't my concern. That's between God and TN, not me. My concern is what TN is trying to spread. As far as praying for TN, sometimes the best prayer is to pray for rock bottom as fast as possible. But here's an important thing to consider... not believing in Jesus doesn't mean TN is condemned. It means he will be judged (John 5:24). Being judged does not necessarily mean condemnation. But if Paul is right in 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 then if TN is using deception to deceive others in not believing in Christ, then he will be condemned. So if you are worried about TN's eternal soul, you might want to start there. Because as near as I can tell, that is exactly what he is doing now.

 

[ding]

Well, of course, cannibalism is my word. And I understand its just symbolism but its still weird to me.

It's not cannibalism and it's not symbolic. It's literally how we share in Christ's suffering. It is the most important command he gave because it brings us closer to him. That's why he literally said we have no life in us unless we eat his flesh and drink his blood (John 6:53).

It is the spirit that gives life. The flesh is of no avail. ~Jesus (John 6:62-63)

I love you ram, lol

You treat people how you see them.

 

[ding]

You dont have to be a scholar to read the OT, silly goose.

Actually it's incredibly difficult.

 

[BreezeWood]

What rituals are necessary for salvation?​

the heavenly goal granted a&e for their choice of self determination than servitude and denial - the triumph of good vs evil - to attain judgement and admission to the everlasting.