Zone1 What is the message of the parables in Matthew 25?

Yet you can't answer my questions.
I won't answer them because they are both leading and irrelevant.
In other words, you never knew and don't know what it means. What a revelation.
Where did you get your mind reading degree?
Well, everybody has an....opinion.
Including you.
That is a stupid way to find out what is really being said.
Looking for a conversation is stupid. Got it.

I am a Christian responding to your stupid requests.
Yeah....you have Christian written all over you.
You like to make requests, but you don't like to answer others questions.
I created a thread and opened it up to discussion. I clearly state my approach to the verses.

You overestimate yourself.

And, as I said, I don't answer questions, especially from idiots that call my questions stupid. Go be a Christian somewhere else.I bother replying to show the shallowness of your op
Yeah....nothing like acting superior when you aren't.

You don't care how the Scriptures are interpreted?
By who? You? Now, I could really care less.

That is my point.
Do me a favor. Stop trying.

You've failed to make a clear point and I am beyond giving you any more time.

Yet you ask, 'why is Christendom so fouled up'.
That wasn't a question.

Better stick to your emojis. Plenty of 'emoji queens' on this sight. You should feel right at home.
Telling people what to do now?

Like I said....no more time for you.
 
Matthew 25 is 3 parables.

The parable of the ten virgins
The parable of the talents
The parable of the sheeps and goats

Each of these speaks of a division of people/worshippers (whatever you want to call them) based on specific conditions and actions.

In the parable of the ten virgins, the virgins with oil went into the wedding. They COULD NOT share that oil. It had to be obtained by each of them. What does that oil represent?

In the parable of the talents, the first two servants went to work and doubled their master's money. The third, a faithless one, didn't put his master's money to use and wound up in the dark and cold.

In the parable of the sheep and goats. Division was basically based on how we treated others.

These were all works. Christian writers talk about the need to "be close to God", to "show faith through works", to constantly connect with God (i.e. pray which is as much a work as anything).

The other parables are even more clear. Use it or lose it. Visit those in prison, feed the needy......works.

Let's hear how that isn't the case.

Because you can do all of those things for Allah...or Buddha....or any made up god. You can--as the OT explains--do that outwardly to "save yourself" but have a heart far, far from God.

If, however, these acts flow from a love for and dedication to God? All the difference
 
You neglected to mention the Good Samaritan. The man who took in the stranger. Paid his medical bills. Restored his health. With no expectation of being repaid.

Samaritans were considered to be enemies of the Jews and yet the Good Samaritan helped the Jew.

Jesus said that what you have done to the least among you, you have done to Me.

You might want to rethink your treatment of refugees in the richest nation on earth.

Seriously.

Great. How many have you taken in, yourself? Short of that how many have you fed of your own effort and your own money?
 
Matthew 25 is 3 parables.

The parable of the ten virgins
The parable of the talents
The parable of the sheeps and goats

Each of these speaks of a division of people/worshippers (whatever you want to call them) based on specific conditions and actions.

In the parable of the ten virgins, the virgins with oil went into the wedding. They COULD NOT share that oil. It had to be obtained by each of them. What does that oil represent?

In the parable of the talents, the first two servants went to work and doubled their master's money. The third, a faithless one, didn't put his master's money to use and wound up in the dark and cold.

In the parable of the sheep and goats. Division was basically based on how we treated others.

These were all works. Christian writers talk about the need to "be close to God", to "show faith through works", to constantly connect with God (i.e. pray which is as much a work as anything).

The other parables are even more clear. Use it or lose it. Visit those in prison, feed the needy......works.

Let's hear how that isn't the case.
Works are a product or an artifact of grace. I don't believe we can earn God's grace because he gave it to us as a gift. I do believe we can lose God's grace by giving it away.

The parable of the ten virgins emphasizes that while all ten waited for the bridegroom, only those who were prepared for a potential delay were welcomed into the kingdom which supports my belief that we can lose God's grace.

The parable of the talents shows that those who produced more with what they were given received the same praise ("Well done, good and faithful servant") as those with less, showing it's not the work that earns God's grace. Whereas the servant who hid his talent out of fear is condemned shows that we can lose God's grace.

The parable of the sheeps and goats describes Jesus’ final judgment, where he separates people into two groups based on their treatment of the needy and vulnerable showing that we can lose God's grace.

But the most important thing to know about this, is that it is God's grace that produces the good works. So if anyone wants to be successful, they only need to seek God's grace and success will follow.
 
Because you can do all of those things for Allah...or Buddha....or any made up god. You can--as the OT explains--do that outwardly to "save yourself" but have a heart far, far from God.

If, however, these acts flow from a love for and dedication to God? All the difference
Regardless, there are the acts. You either did them or you didn't. I would agree that motivation is a huge part of it.

But I find the whole "saved......regardless" argument inconsistent with what the N.T. teaches.
 
I don't believe we can earn God's grace because he gave it to us as a gift.
Grace is an interesting term.

I accept the defintion that: grace is the divine help or enabling power given through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, allowing individuals to be forgiven, strengthened, and ultimately saved.....but they do have agency in the matter.

Without the Atonement of Jesus Christ, there is no hope. He did for us what we COULD NOT do for ourselves which is satisfy the laws of justice. He did that and converted our debt into one we can pay through repentance. A decision to be baptized is a committment. It is more than a sign. We covenant to obey his laws and we are expected to do so. When we fall short, he stands there ready to forgive us on conditions of repentance (which some would call a "work").

We are offered the gift. We don't have to accept and some do not. But to feel the effects of that grace we do have to accept that gift.
I do believe we can lose God's grace by giving it away.
Again, in my world we accept it through a process of drawing closer to him on a daily basis by keeping his word and feeling more of his spirit.

This is a lifelong process. Paul explains that the church (and it's elements) are given for the "perfecting of the saints". That "perfecting process is not completed in this life, but it can certainly be advanced". Our ultimate objective is to attain unto the "stature of Christ".

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

The parable of the ten virgins emphasizes that while all ten waited for the bridegroom, only those who were prepared for a potential delay were welcomed into the kingdom which supports my belief that we can lose God's grace.

I would agree.

The parable of the talents shows that those who produced more with what they were given received the same praise ("Well done, good and faithful servant") as those with less, showing it's not the work that earns God's grace.
While the amount produced isn't material to me, they both doubled their masters money. So I don't read to much into that. What I do read is that they were given opportunity and they went to work. They accepted the gift, as it were an made more of themselves in doing so. The last servant didn't lose it....he never had it. It was offered to him. He didn't accept.

There is no getting away from the fact that two of them went to work with what was given them. One didn't. That work is useless without the Atonement. By the same token, the Atonement could not have effect on the final servant (I am sure God wanted to save him, but he can't deny justice....just like I am sure he cried (as described in apocraphyl writings) when he destroyed the world with the flood
The parable of the sheeps and goats describes Jesus’ final judgment, where he separates people into two groups based on their treatment of the needy and vulnerable showing that we can lose God's grace.
Actual responses to human situations are what dictated his response to the different groups.

But the most important thing to know about this, is that it is God's grace that produces the good works.
This is the big hangup I get into with people. Those who accept God's grace (according to my Evangelical friends) are "saved". It's a digital switch. But they also admit that those good often do not show up automatically, nor does their attitude always conform with what they think it should be. They admit to "morphing" as time goes on as they do more and grow closer to God.....again understanding that works alone simply will never get the job done. The Savior is essential.

So, is accepting the gift a gradual daily process or is it a one time thing.

Is losing it a gradual process.....or is it digital also?

I would contend that is instruction to be perfect (Matthew 5:48) which some will say means be"whole" wasn't an idle commandment. And nobody I know admits to being perfect or "whole".
So if anyone wants to be successful, they only need to seek God's grace and success will follow.
You don't just seek....you have to recieve......

I think these parables teach that there are consequences for not doing so.

How you do so seems straightforward to me as I consider his commandments in the Sermon on the Mount and other teachings in the New Testament.

And James may be summing up both our positions in his statement:

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
.
 
I won't answer them because they are both leading and irrelevant.

Where did you get your mind reading degree?

Including you.

Looking for a conversation is stupid. Got it.


Yeah....you have Christian written all over you.

I created a thread and opened it up to discussion. I clearly state my approach to the verses.

You overestimate yourself.

And, as I said, I don't answer questions, especially from idiots that call my questions stupid. Go be a Christian somewhere else.I bother replying to show the shallowness of your op
Yeah....nothing like acting superior when you aren't.


By who? You? Now, I could really care less.


Do me a favor. Stop trying.

You've failed to make a clear point and I am beyond giving you any more time.


That wasn't a question.


Telling people what to do now?

Like I said....no more time for you.

That's a lie. My questions are not irrelevant. Which is why you refuse to answer them.

Of course you don't want to give me more time. You can't answer the questions. You're a phony. Full of shit.

So typical. Keep running coward...you have been exposed.

Quantrill
 
Isolating (Matt. 25) from the rest of Scripture doesn't render a true interpretation. (Matt. 25) cannot be understood without (Matt. 24). And (Matt. 24-25) cannot be understood without knowing the whole of the Bible.

And your and others interpretations are just very 'general', something anyone could come up with. "What does this mean to you?" "What this means to me is..." Anyone's bullshit is accepted. I don't give a shit what it means to 'you'. I would want to know, 'what does it mean'?

According to the Bible. Not according to any bullshit 'apocrypha' or other writings outside of Scripture. Not according to Jews who deny Jesus Christ. They don't even know or believe their own Bible, much less the New Testament. Not according to those who recognize other writings as of God, that are outside the Bible. There are none.

(Matt. 24-25) is called the 'Olivet Discourse'. It is one discourse. To understand it you have to know both Old and New Testaments, the Word of God. And if one does not believe that, then forget it. Just accept any bullshit anyone offers. 'this is what it means to me'. 'what does it mean to you'. 'oh that is so sweet'. (vomit)

My opinion.

Quantrill
What do you believe Matthew 25 is saying in the three parables?
 
Isolating (Matt. 25) from the rest of Scripture doesn't render a true interpretation. (Matt. 25) cannot be understood without (Matt. 24). And (Matt. 24-25) cannot be understood without knowing the whole of the Bible.

And your and others interpretations are just very 'general', something anyone could come up with. "What does this mean to you?" "What this means to me is..." Anyone's bullshit is accepted. I don't give a shit what it means to 'you'. I would want to know, 'what does it mean'?

According to the Bible. Not according to any bullshit 'apocrypha' or other writings outside of Scripture. Not according to Jews who deny Jesus Christ. They don't even know or believe their own Bible, much less the New Testament. Not according to those who recognize other writings as of God, that are outside the Bible. There are none.

(Matt. 24-25) is called the 'Olivet Discourse'. It is one discourse. To understand it you have to know both Old and New Testaments, the Word of God. And if one does not believe that, then forget it. Just accept any bullshit anyone offers. 'this is what it means to me'. 'what does it mean to you'. 'oh that is so sweet'. (vomit)

My opinion.

Quantrill
Seeing as how you are an expert on how to interpret the bible, let me ask you a question. When people don't accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior, what happens to them when they die?
 
What do you believe Matthew 25 is saying in the three parables?

See post #(14). You cannot come to a correct interpretation of the parables in (Matt. 25) without having a correct understanding of (Matt. 24).

That is why (Matt. 25:1) begins by saying "Then". The Olivet Discourse is one discourse.

Quantrill
 
James chapter two addresses this subject. "Faith without works is dead, being alone."

James 2:14-24, "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? ;Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

Works are not "rituals." They are acts of charitable kindness. In some cases it may be akin to someone volunteering their time at a soup kitchen. Other times it can be more spur-of-the-moment when you see someone in immediate need (a cold person in need of a coat). It can be donating money to a cause or beneficial institution like St. Jude's Hospital or the Salvation Army or Habitat of Humanity.

The topic is related to "the Golden Rule" by which we treat others as we prefer to be treated.

Matthew 7:12, "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Works also include spreading the Gospel message of Jesus Christ. Sharing the message of man's fallen state and the only solution for payment of that sinful state which is the undeserved, shed blood of Jesus Christ and the grace by which He sacrificed Himself for our sake.

Mark 16:15-16, "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
John 15:13, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
 
Seeing as how you are an expert on how to interpret the bible, let me ask you a question. When people don't accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior, what happens to them when they die?
John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
 
Don't need any new Amendments; the Founders deported a lot of problems, and Lincoln liked deporting people as well, including Congressmen.

The alleged founder of the Democratic Party:

Every society has a right to fix the fundamental principles of its association, and to say to all individuals, that if they contemplate pursuits beyond the limits of these principles and involving dangers which the society chooses to avoid, they must go somewhere else for their exercise; that we want no citizens, and still less ephemeral and pseudo-citizens, on such terms. We may exclude them from our territory, as we do persons infected with disease.


Thomas Jefferson to William H. Crawford, 1816

Former Congressman deported by Lincoln:


Bobby Kennedy also liked using deportation as way to get rid of scum. The leftist own heroes were fine with deporting commies and deviants.
 
See post #(14). You cannot come to a correct interpretation of the parables in (Matt. 25) without having a correct understanding of (Matt. 24).

That is why (Matt. 25:1) begins by saying "Then". The Olivet Discourse is one discourse.

Quantrill
I've seen your post. It doesn't answer my question.
 
John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
John 5:24

Not believing in Jesus is not condemnation it means standing under existing judgment. It's not a sin to reject Jesus.
 
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John 5:24

Not believing in Jesus is not condemnation it means standing under existing judgment. It's not a sin to reject Jesus.
From a biblical and Christian it IS a sin to reject God.

1st Commandment: Exodus 20:3, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
 
15th post
From a biblical and Christian it IS a sin to reject God.
It appears atheism can be forgiven - God as Father/Creator.
It appears rejecting Jesus can be forgiven - God as Word.

What cannot be forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. What this means is that anyone who stands before God refusing forgiveness of his/her sins and salvation cannot be forgiven. In other words, God cannot go against one's free will when one rejects forgiveness and salvation.
 
It appears atheism can be forgiven - God as Father/Creator.
It appears rejecting Jesus can be forgiven - God as Word.

What cannot be forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. What this means is that anyone who stands before God refusing forgiveness of his/her sins and salvation cannot be forgiven. In other words, God cannot go against one's free will when one rejects forgiveness and salvation.
All sins mentioned "can" be forgiven (save blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) but not all sin WILL be forgiven without the repentance of sin. We can't just trip through life willfully sinning with the idea that we can just tell Jesus to forgive us. He's really not a doormat in that regard. In fact, He promises to return to earth; gather up the tares (the earth's weeds); and cast them all into a fiery furnace.

In other words, forgiveness of sin isn't a foregone conclusion. We have to recognize our sins and not only ask for forgiveness but make a real effort to overcome our sins.
 
All sins mentioned "can" be forgiven (save blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) but not all sin WILL be forgiven without the repentance of sin. We can't just trip through life willfully sinning with the idea that we can just tell Jesus to forgive us. He's really not a doormat in that regard. In fact, He promises to return to earth; gather up the tares (the earth's weeds); and cast them all into a fiery furnace.

In other words, forgiveness of sin isn't a foregone conclusion. We have to recognize our sins and not only ask for forgiveness but make a real effort to overcome our sins.
Correct. Jesus taught repentance for (turning away from sin) for the forgiveness of sins. In other words without the agreement to repent/turn away from sin, one is, in fact, rejecting the forgiveness of that sin and therefore also rejecting salvation. They prefer to embrace the sin instead of God and his ways.

Apparently there is at least one denomination that insists that all sins, past-present-future, were forgiven the moment Jesus gave up his life on the cross. Personally, I don't see forgiveness or salvation in that light.
 

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