What is a fair tax rate?

[bripat9643]

Romney pays 14% on his taxes.

I pay 25%.

This is the real redistribution of wealth in America.....welfare for the wealthy.

You don't pay 25% on all your income you twit.

Don't you understand yet that your top marginal rate is not your effective tax rate?

The reason a scumbag can get elected is the fact that the United States is overpopulated with numskulls like Chris.

Sad, isn't it?

 

[xsited1]

What is a fair tax rate?

For federal taxes, just enough to satisfy a constitutional tax which would be much, much lower than it is today. I'm guessing it would be in the 5-10% range at most.

 

[Saigon]

You want a VAT tax on top of all the other taxes?!?!

Two words.......**** You

I agree 100%.

One thing is clear, Saigon's greed for more of the taxpayer's money is insatiable.

That may be because I understand what the words 'fiscal conservative' mean, whereas you do not.

The GOP does not pursue conservative tax policies these days, because it has become far too extreme for such mainstream conservative solutions. In this, ironically, you end up more to the left than right because your own leaders are so desperate to flee the political centre.

 

[Saigon]

Why is 30% "fair?" Why is paying more than you pay now "fair?"

Because it would allow the state to function.

Apprently you do not want sewerage, road, street lighting etc to be provided, but many people do.

A 30% flat tax rate is the lowest level that could sustain those services.

Or you could go with the more conservative model, and adopt a VAT.

 

[P@triot]

OK, we'd all like to pay 0%, but what tax rates do you think would be fair - and sustainable?

For simplicity, I've broken it down here into these main categories:

Low income 20%
Middle income 27.5%
High income 35%

Corporate tax 30%

VAT 15%

Tax on dividends & shares 25%

Any other major tax categories needed?

My plan is to raise income for the state with a VAT, which will hit the shadow economy and mean even drug dealers are paying some tax.

With that extra income I can then trim corporate taxes.

Feel free to add more details in - I did this very quickly!

The flaw in your plan is the one that the French are now facing. The wealthy are leaving in droves. They don't even have to move - they just have to buy another home elsewhere, with a lower tax rate... or, if they already own a home elsewhere, change their primary residence to that country.

I do wish Americans would engage in some critical thought before coming up with their 'ideas'. It would save you looking foolish.

Cali Girl - Saigon is NOT an American. He's a ******* idiot European (or Aussie - he changes his story a lot) that has never lived in American and has never been an American citizen (hence is extereme ignorance)

 

[Saigon]

Saigon is NOT an American. He's a ******* idiot European (or Aussie - he changes his story a lot)

I'm an Ozzie??!!

Where did I say THAT??!!

(Does that mean I have to like Fosters and say 'Fuckin arse' all the time?)

 

[P@triot]

You want a VAT tax on top of all the other taxes?!?!

Two words.......**** You

I agree 100%.

One thing is clear, Saigon's greed for more of the taxpayer's money is insatiable.

That may be because I understand what the words 'fiscal conservative' mean, whereas you do not.

The GOP does not pursue conservative tax policies these days, because it has become far too extreme for such mainstream conservative solutions. In this, ironically, you end up more to the left than right because your own leaders are so desperate to flee the political centre.

What?!?! What are you talking about? The GOP politicians would rather be LEFT than CENTER?!?! Really? My God you will make up ANY shit you can to support your position once that position has been proven WRONG.

 

[P@triot]

Saigon is NOT an American. He's a ******* idiot European (or Aussie - he changes his story a lot)

I'm an Ozzie??!!

Where did I say THAT??!!

(Does that mean I have to like Fosters and say 'Fuckin arse' all the time?)

One thing is certain - you are an IDIOT.

 

[P@triot]

Why is 30% "fair?" Why is paying more than you pay now "fair?"

Because it would allow the state to function.

Apprently you do not want sewerage, road, street lighting etc to be provided, but many people do.

A 30% flat tax rate is the lowest level that could sustain those services.

Or you could go with the more conservative model, and adopt a VAT.

More examples of how ignorant of the United States Saigon is... He has no idea that the federal government is NOT involved in any capacity with sewage, roads, street lights, etc.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Obamanation -

The only way that would in any be feasible would be if either the military, healthcare, education or welfare systems were abandoned outright. Possibly more than one of those would need to be closed, I suspect.

I can imagine how great it would look on the TV news if we had eighty-year-old Grandmas and Autistic children starving in the streets because you wanted that second home in the Hamptons.

WAit, many democrats already have that second home, I dont. FAct is you should tax every dollar the same, it's simple, easy and guess what no confilct and ways to pit classes against each other, that's why liberals dont want it. It has nothing to do with the income and neither does a graduated income tax. Do you know why we have a graduated income tax full of loopholes? hint: it's so politicians can control your behavior.

 

[Saigon]

Rottweiler -

It's actually quite simple, although BriPat won't understand it and neither will you.

The US is now the only western democracy without VAT.

In almot everyone of the 20-30 countries where it has been introduced during the past 30 years, it ha been introduced by conservatives.

It is considered a hallmark of modern conservative thinking, primarily because it is regressive, and because it targets groups like drug dealers, hookers, and illegal immigrants.

Hence those arguing against VAT end up inadvertently taking a left wing position against conservative orthodoxy, largely without realising that the GOP is no longer conservative in terms of tax law.

 

[Saigon]

More examples of how ignorant of the United States Saigon is... He has no idea that the federal government is NOT involved in any capacity with sewage, roads, street lights, etc.

And again, you do not understand the point.

It does not matter whether you pay taxe to the city, state or federal government, or even who provides them.

The fact is you pay taxes, and those services are provided.

The system Bripat and yourself advocate would create a shortfall of tax revenues of $1 trillion or so per year, which would cripple both local, state and fedeal government.

 

[Erand7899]

You want a VAT tax on top of all the other taxes?!?!

Two words.......**** You

I agree 100%.

One thing is clear, Saigon's greed for more of the taxpayer's money is insatiable.

That may be because I understand what the words 'fiscal conservative' mean, whereas you do not.

The GOP does not pursue conservative tax policies these days, because it has become far too extreme for such mainstream conservative solutions. In this, ironically, you end up more to the left than right because your own leaders are so desperate to flee the political centre.

You have a point there. One of the main problems with socialism, is that it is virtually impossible to reverse. Too many people become dependent upon those programs, and eliminating one or more of them causes serious harm to some of those people. Hopefully, we can kill Obamacare before people rearrange their lives around it.

However, there is a solution, and I believe that Mitt Romney understands it. Send these programs back to the states, where they rightly belong. The states can handle them much more efficiently that the federal government can, and it cuts out the middle man.

 

[P@triot]

Rottweiler -

It's actually quite simple, although BriPat won't understand it and neither will you.

The US is now the only western democracy without VAT.

In almot everyone of the 20-30 countries where it has been introduced during the past 30 years, it ha been introduced by conservatives.

It is considered a hallmark of modern conservative thinking, primarily because it is regressive, and because it targets groups like drug dealers, hookers, and illegal immigrants.

Hence those arguing against VAT end up inadvertently taking a left wing position against conservative orthodoxy, largely without realising that the GOP is no longer conservative in terms of tax law.

VAT is fine - but that's not the issue. You said you wanted VAT on TOP of existing taxes - which is where they said "**** you" to you, and your response was that your more conservative and that GOP would rather be left than center.

There is nothing dumber than every single one of you idiot liberal dumbocrats pretending your conservative because you think it will give you credibility. Making sensible posts gets you credibility - pretending to be a conservative while spouting communist non-sense gets you a reputation as an idiot and an asshole.

 

[P@triot]

I agree 100%.

One thing is clear, Saigon's greed for more of the taxpayer's money is insatiable.

That may be because I understand what the words 'fiscal conservative' mean, whereas you do not.

The GOP does not pursue conservative tax policies these days, because it has become far too extreme for such mainstream conservative solutions. In this, ironically, you end up more to the left than right because your own leaders are so desperate to flee the political centre.

You have a point there. One of the main problems with socialism, is that it is virtually impossible to reverse. Too many people become dependent upon those programs, and eliminating one or more of them causes serious harm to some of those people. Hopefully, we can kill Obamacare before people rearrange their lives around it.

However, there is a solution, and I believe that Mitt Romney understands it. Send these programs back to the states, where they rightly belong. The states can handle them much more efficiently that the federal government can, and it cuts out the middle man.

 

[Saigon]

VAT is fine - but that's not the issue. You said you wanted VAT on TOP of existing taxes - which is where they said "**** you" to you, and your response was that your more conservative and that GOP would rather be left than center.

There is nothing dumber than every single one of you idiot liberal dumbocrats pretending your conservative because you think it will give you credibility. Making sensible posts gets you credibility - pretending to be a conservative while spouting communist non-sense gets you a reputation as an idiot and an asshole.

I'm not sure if you have studied VAT in other countries, but I am guessing not.

In EVERY country where VAT is instituted it works the same way.

Existing taxes remain, but are reduced by an amount which should mean that you pay a similar level of tax during the course of a year. You do NOT pay more tax.

The govt gains because of the money earned from the shadow economy.

This is conservative policy.

It's funny - here I am explaining tax policy to you, and all I get back is this mindless abuse. Do you think it might be worth saving the abuse for a topic you understand?

 

[P@triot]

The US is now the only western democracy without VAT.

What exactly is your obsession with making the US just like every other country? The only thing you ever say is "the US doesn't have <insert issue here> like Europe does".

When I thoroughly schooled you on the gun debate, all you would do is compare UK homicides by gun to US homicides by gun, and then conclude that we need to implement UK gun policy in the US.

When I thoroughly schooled you on the auto industry, all you could say is how the UK had different laws and how the US needs to implement them.

Why are you so distrubed that the US is unique? Why are you so distrubed that the US has not conformed to the Europe? Are you a Nazi who feels that everyone must dress alike, goose step alike, and march in perfect timing?

Considering that before Obama - who is implementing European socialism - we were light years ahead of Spain (economic collapse), Greece (economic collapse), England (economic collapse), and the rest, I'd say it's pretty clear you're the ******* idiots and we're the ******* geniuses.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Rottweiler -

It's actually quite simple, although BriPat won't understand it and neither will you.

The US is now the only western democracy without VAT.

In almot everyone of the 20-30 countries where it has been introduced during the past 30 years, it ha been introduced by conservatives.

It is considered a hallmark of modern conservative thinking, primarily because it is regressive, and because it targets groups like drug dealers, hookers, and illegal immigrants.

Hence those arguing against VAT end up inadvertently taking a left wing position against conservative orthodoxy, largely without realising that the GOP is no longer conservative in terms of tax law.

Wait a sec, so your saying conservatives want a progressive tax or wanted want previously?

Conservatives have never liked the progressive income tax, the republicans that promoted that are progressives or what we like to call RINOS.

And yeah a VAT is a much better way to go than income, if you dont want to pay the vat then dont buy shit, save it and invest it, and hey make money....what a concept.
You will have to stop buying crap like cds, porn, whatever, but it's a price you pay to become rich.

 

[Charles_Main]

OK, we'd all like to pay 0%, but what tax rates do you think would be fair - and sustainable?

For simplicity, I've broken it down here into these main categories:

Low income 20%
Middle income 27.5%
High income 35%

Corporate tax 30%

VAT 15%

Tax on dividends & shares 25%

Any other major tax categories needed?

My plan is to raise income for the state with a VAT, which will hit the shadow economy and mean even drug dealers are paying some tax.

With that extra income I can then trim corporate taxes.

Feel free to add more details in - I did this very quickly!

We need to look at the total people pay, Not just Federal. Federal, SS/MC, State, Local, Not just the Income taxes, things like Gas taxes, Taxes on utilities etc etc.

add it all up and some pay well over half their income in taxes

Then Despite all that, If they manage to do well, and save enough when they die, the government Rapes anything they may have left to leave for the next Generation to the Tune of 55%.

yippe.

 

[Saigon]

The US is now the only western democracy without VAT.

What exactly is your obsession with making the US just like every other country? The only thing you ever say is "the US doesn't have <insert issue here> like Europe does".

When I thoroughly schooled you on the gun debate, all you would do is compare UK homicides by gun to US homicides by gun, and then conclude that we need to implement UK gun policy in the US.

When I thoroughly schooled you on the auto industry, all you could say is how the UK had different laws and how the US needs to implement them.

Why are you so distrubed that the US is unique? Why are you so distrubed that the US has not conformed to the Europe? Are you a Nazi who feels that everyone must dress alike, goose step alike, and march in perfect timing?

Considering that before Obama - who is implementing European socialism - we were light years ahead of Spain (economic collapse), Greece (economic collapse), England (economic collapse), and the rest, I'd say it's pretty clear you're the ******* idiots and we're the ******* geniuses.

Rottie -

In no case have I ever said the US should adopt anyone else's laws, and certainly not the UK's.

What I have said is that the US should be willing to look at policies from around the globe. It is the best way of getting a handle on what has worked in the past, and what might work well in US conditions. All countries should be doing this - and I think most are.

Given the US has 5 times as many homocides as any other developed country, this is one area where any sensible person is going to want to find solutions which saves lives.

Likewise with tax law, CONSERVATIVE posters here will be well aware of what conservatives have tried in other countries, and will know how effecitve VAT has been in increasing savings and actually lowering real taxes.

btw. You will likely never "school" any poster on this forum. You simply are not well enough informed, you are not fast enough, and you are not particularly literate. Just saying "I skooled Uo" everytime you feel you may be looking silly only confirms that you are looking silly.