What do you all think of hydrogen fuel cells to power trucks and cars?

MarathonMike

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
20,343
Reaction score
13,152
Points
1,445
Location
The Southwestern Desert
I just started reading about Nikola and their use of hydrogen fuel cells in trucks. I've been interested in hydrogen as a fuel since the early 90s when I first saw a demo of it. Apparently hydrogen fuel cells were used in the Space Shuttle program for decades, something I didn't know. What do you think, is this a viable alternative to EVs? Apparently the range is 500+ miles between recharge.

 

Polishprince

Platinum Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
23,667
Reaction score
9,166
Points
910
I just started reading about Nikola and their use of hydrogen fuel cells in trucks. I've been interested in hydrogen as a fuel since the early 90s when I first saw a demo of it. Apparently hydrogen fuel cells were used in the Space Shuttle program for decades, something I didn't know. What do you think, is this a viable alternative to EVs? Apparently the range is 500+ miles between recharge.


The great thing about hydrogen is that when it burns , it produces water.

If the could be recaptured, it could be recycled and burned again and again.
 

22lcidw

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
12,897
Reaction score
3,060
Points
275
W. Bush pushed this when he was President. When the Progs took over they eliminated it.
 

Daryl Hunt

Your Worst Nightmare
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
18,807
Reaction score
2,554
Points
290
Location
O.D. (Stands for Out Dere
W. Bush pushed this when he was President. When the Progs took over they eliminated it.
The problem with Hydrogen is, it's the smallest molecule and that pesky little critter has a tendency to leak though the best of the seals. Now unless you are NASA or the equiv and have the facility to deal with it (lots of distance and lack of other things) then you may not want to be around a hydrogen powered car. One of the worst problems with them is when it leaks, it collects in places like fender wells and other places and just waits for something to set it off. If you do put it in a fuel cell, the cost of operation is so high it's not a viable alternative to anything but it's at least safer. Politics didn't kill it, common sense did.
 

Toddsterpatriot

Diamond Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
60,974
Reaction score
10,325
Points
2,030
Location
Chicago
I just started reading about Nikola and their use of hydrogen fuel cells in trucks. I've been interested in hydrogen as a fuel since the early 90s when I first saw a demo of it. Apparently hydrogen fuel cells were used in the Space Shuttle program for decades, something I didn't know. What do you think, is this a viable alternative to EVs? Apparently the range is 500+ miles between recharge.

Waste of money and energy.
 

westwall

Diamond Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
66,566
Reaction score
19,198
Points
2,180
Location
Nevada
I just started reading about Nikola and their use of hydrogen fuel cells in trucks. I've been interested in hydrogen as a fuel since the early 90s when I first saw a demo of it. Apparently hydrogen fuel cells were used in the Space Shuttle program for decades, something I didn't know. What do you think, is this a viable alternative to EVs? Apparently the range is 500+ miles between recharge.








Hydrogen fuel cells are, IMO the way to go. Recharge is just like a gasoline powered car, except you use liquid H.
 

westwall

Diamond Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
66,566
Reaction score
19,198
Points
2,180
Location
Nevada
I just started reading about Nikola and their use of hydrogen fuel cells in trucks. I've been interested in hydrogen as a fuel since the early 90s when I first saw a demo of it. Apparently hydrogen fuel cells were used in the Space Shuttle program for decades, something I didn't know. What do you think, is this a viable alternative to EVs? Apparently the range is 500+ miles between recharge.

Waste of money and energy.



I disagree. The technology development alone will be beneficial down the road.
 

Toddsterpatriot

Diamond Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
60,974
Reaction score
10,325
Points
2,030
Location
Chicago
I just started reading about Nikola and their use of hydrogen fuel cells in trucks. I've been interested in hydrogen as a fuel since the early 90s when I first saw a demo of it. Apparently hydrogen fuel cells were used in the Space Shuttle program for decades, something I didn't know. What do you think, is this a viable alternative to EVs? Apparently the range is 500+ miles between recharge.








Hydrogen fuel cells are, IMO the way to go. Recharge is just like a gasoline powered car, except you use liquid H.
How much are cryogenic fuel tanks going to cost?
Any danger of explosion in a crash?
How often do you need to refuel?
Where do you get the hydrogen?
 

Toddsterpatriot

Diamond Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
60,974
Reaction score
10,325
Points
2,030
Location
Chicago
I just started reading about Nikola and their use of hydrogen fuel cells in trucks. I've been interested in hydrogen as a fuel since the early 90s when I first saw a demo of it. Apparently hydrogen fuel cells were used in the Space Shuttle program for decades, something I didn't know. What do you think, is this a viable alternative to EVs? Apparently the range is 500+ miles between recharge.

Waste of money and energy.



I disagree. The technology development alone will be beneficial down the road.
Beneficial to what?
 

westwall

Diamond Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
66,566
Reaction score
19,198
Points
2,180
Location
Nevada
I just started reading about Nikola and their use of hydrogen fuel cells in trucks. I've been interested in hydrogen as a fuel since the early 90s when I first saw a demo of it. Apparently hydrogen fuel cells were used in the Space Shuttle program for decades, something I didn't know. What do you think, is this a viable alternative to EVs? Apparently the range is 500+ miles between recharge.

Waste of money and energy.



I disagree. The technology development alone will be beneficial down the road.
Beneficial to what?




Space travel, power generation, undersea uses, anyplace that conventional power doesn't work well.
 

Dick Foster

Platinum Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
7,269
Reaction score
3,650
Points
1,065
Location
The People's Republic of the Californicated
I just started reading about Nikola and their use of hydrogen fuel cells in trucks. I've been interested in hydrogen as a fuel since the early 90s when I first saw a demo of it. Apparently hydrogen fuel cells were used in the Space Shuttle program for decades, something I didn't know. What do you think, is this a viable alternative to EVs? Apparently the range is 500+ miles between recharge.

Pretty niffty idea once you solve the problem of where all the hydrogen is going to come from. Currently it's from oil which doesn't really get us anywhere. Its like electric cars in that respect as the vast majority of electic cars end up as just a grossly inefficient way to use fossil fuel to power a car indirectly. Every time energy is converted from one form to another you suffer whats known as conversion loss, typically in the form of heat. Put you hand on an electibc motor, the heat you feel is basically conversion loss. When you charge a battery and both the battery and the charger heat up, thats more conversion loss, then there's the transmission loss incurred just from getting the electricity from the fossil fueled generating station to your wall socket, where you plug in the charger that's gonna get hot charging up the batteries which in turn heat up, etc and that's before the car moves an inch down the road.
However as far as fuel cells are concerned you might be better off just burning the hydrogen and skipping all of the inbetween steps and sidestepping all the conversion loss along the way in the process. The exhaust is still only pure water.
 
Last edited:

Grumblenuts

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2017
Messages
4,492
Reaction score
839
Points
140
The technology development alone will be beneficial down the road.
That's possible. Then again, it's actually far from being anything new. Much better investments likely at this point.
 

westwall

Diamond Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
66,566
Reaction score
19,198
Points
2,180
Location
Nevada
I just started reading about Nikola and their use of hydrogen fuel cells in trucks. I've been interested in hydrogen as a fuel since the early 90s when I first saw a demo of it. Apparently hydrogen fuel cells were used in the Space Shuttle program for decades, something I didn't know. What do you think, is this a viable alternative to EVs? Apparently the range is 500+ miles between recharge.








Hydrogen fuel cells are, IMO the way to go. Recharge is just like a gasoline powered car, except you use liquid H.
How much are cryogenic fuel tanks going to cost?
Any danger of explosion in a crash?
How often do you need to refuel?
Where do you get the hydrogen?





Cost has already been lowered by half. After just a couple of years of research. No real danger with liquid H if it is stored properly. Same as a car. Hydrogen extraction is THE big cost now. Tech research will lower that.
 

Toddsterpatriot

Diamond Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
60,974
Reaction score
10,325
Points
2,030
Location
Chicago
I just started reading about Nikola and their use of hydrogen fuel cells in trucks. I've been interested in hydrogen as a fuel since the early 90s when I first saw a demo of it. Apparently hydrogen fuel cells were used in the Space Shuttle program for decades, something I didn't know. What do you think, is this a viable alternative to EVs? Apparently the range is 500+ miles between recharge.

Waste of money and energy.



I disagree. The technology development alone will be beneficial down the road.
Beneficial to what?




Space travel, power generation, undersea uses, anyplace that conventional power doesn't work well.
Space travel, power generation,

We have plenty of experience with fuel cells in space.
Why would you want to "generate power" with liquid H2?

anyplace that conventional power doesn't work well.

So that leaves out automobiles.
 
OP
MarathonMike

MarathonMike

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
20,343
Reaction score
13,152
Points
1,445
Location
The Southwestern Desert
W. Bush pushed this when he was President. When the Progs took over they eliminated it.
The problem with Hydrogen is, it's the smallest molecule and that pesky little critter has a tendency to leak though the best of the seals. Now unless you are NASA or the equiv and have the facility to deal with it (lots of distance and lack of other things) then you may not want to be around a hydrogen powered car. One of the worst problems with them is when it leaks, it collects in places like fender wells and other places and just waits for something to set it off. If you do put it in a fuel cell, the cost of operation is so high it's not a viable alternative to anything but it's at least safer. Politics didn't kill it, common sense did.
Those are reasonable points. But it would seem that decades of experience with the Space Shuttle program the safety and leaking problems would have been solved.
 

Toddsterpatriot

Diamond Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
60,974
Reaction score
10,325
Points
2,030
Location
Chicago
I just started reading about Nikola and their use of hydrogen fuel cells in trucks. I've been interested in hydrogen as a fuel since the early 90s when I first saw a demo of it. Apparently hydrogen fuel cells were used in the Space Shuttle program for decades, something I didn't know. What do you think, is this a viable alternative to EVs? Apparently the range is 500+ miles between recharge.








Hydrogen fuel cells are, IMO the way to go. Recharge is just like a gasoline powered car, except you use liquid H.
How much are cryogenic fuel tanks going to cost?
Any danger of explosion in a crash?
How often do you need to refuel?
Where do you get the hydrogen?





Cost has already been lowered by half. After just a couple of years of research. No real danger with liquid H if it is stored properly. Same as a car. Hydrogen extraction is THE big cost now. Tech research will lower that.
Cost has already been lowered by half.

So now it's only 3 times the cost and half the energy?

No real danger with liquid H if it is stored properly.

And if it's not or it's in a crash?????

Hydrogen extraction is THE big cost now.

And the big energy waste. I don't see the attraction.
Is it fear of CO2?
 

harmonica

Platinum Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
30,987
Reaction score
7,438
Points
1,140
I just started reading about Nikola and their use of hydrogen fuel cells in trucks. I've been interested in hydrogen as a fuel since the early 90s when I first saw a demo of it. Apparently hydrogen fuel cells were used in the Space Shuttle program for decades, something I didn't know. What do you think, is this a viable alternative to EVs? Apparently the range is 500+ miles between recharge.

Waste of money and energy.



I disagree. The technology development alone will be beneficial down the road.
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! WRONG and stupid !!!!
much better to go FARRRRRRRR away in space to get the stuff we need
that's what you guys say
 

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top