What Constitutional Rights Apply to an Unborn Fetus: Judicial Interpretation as opposed to Legal/JudicialPhilosophy

[Dante Reawakened]

Not my argument. Nice try.

It is.

You wrote:

I guess the same way a woman is said to forced to become a mother.

but okay

 

[HeyNorm]

Not if they have the brain of an unborn fetus

So they can be killed?

 

[HeyNorm]

It is.

You wrote:


but okay

You’re second chance and you failed again.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

The argument comes down to when life begins

Fertilization. Matter of textbook scientific fact. Argument over?

and we all know that isn't declared in the Constitution, nor (as far as I know) in the US Code of Laws

Correct, it isn’t.

But is it the job of the government to establish an official Starting Time for human life?

No, that’s science’s role - it is the job of the government to define legal personhood. And a government that is just and follows principles of equality would not restrict legal personhood from any living human being.

It is a moral, ethical, and religious question, and while some religions and schools of thought believe that life starts at the instant *snap* of conception, others believe that it does not begin until the actual birth occurs,

Religion does not actually matter in this context. If your religion’s beliefs align with the reality that life begins at fertilization, great, easy. If not, oh well, you can have your beliefs, but reality and law should not respect your religion so much that we try to cater our laws to your delusion and magical thinking. Your practice of religion is your business alone until you try to use it to justify attacking others, as would be the case here.

Our government is instead charged with the responsibility of protecting everyone's ability to choose for themselves.

No, not really. Our government doesn’t protect everyone’s ability to choose for themselves if they want to steal, rape, enslave, murder, etc. Not all choices are valid, legal, and permissible. Some choices just determine criminal intent and premeditation.

 

[Dante Reawakened]

So they can be killed?

Killed? What does kill mean?
I guess in the same way taking a chicken's eggsis killing baby chicks. Can one kill an animal, a mamal that doesn't have a fully functioning brain and is not yet born?

 

[Dante Reawakened]

a government that is just and follows principles of equality would not restrict legal personhood from any living human being.

Living human being? What is considered a human being? Is a fetus considered a living human being?

and legal person-hood? Babies and young children have legal guardians, including the state. Should the state monitor sex and step in as a guardian when an egg is fertilized?

 

[HeyNorm]

Killed? What does kill mean?
I guess in the same way taking a chicken's eggsis killing baby chicks. Can one kill an animal, a mamal that doesn't have a fully functioning brain and is not yet born?

Yes.

 

[Dante Reawakened]

Fertilization. Matter of textbook scientific fact. Argument over?

I science, We speak of alien life. We speak of intelligent life. Are all fertilized eggs in a woman considered intelligent life

 

[Dante Reawakened]

Yes.

Hmm...

 

[Dante Reawakened]

Yes.

Is a woman abusing her body in any way that affects fetal development, guilty of manslaughter or child abuse?

 

[HeyNorm]

Hmm...

When does the brain become “fully functioning”. And what is the standard you use?

 

[HeyNorm]

Is a woman abusing her body in any way that affects fetal development, guilty of manslaughter or child abuse?

That would depend, wouldn’t it.

 

[HeyNorm]

I science, We speak of alien life. We speak of intelligent life. Are all fertilized eggs in a woman considered intelligent life

You are getting close to the arguments made by the Nazis in regards to those of the Jewish faith.

 

[Dante Reawakened]

When does the brain become “fully functioning”. And what is the standard you use?

I personally do not have a standard that matters. Who am I?

I'd go with the science, but I know there exist lots of people who willingly ignore science when it presents uncomfortable truths

Is the brain of a child after it is born, fully developed?

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

I science, We speak of alien life. We speak of intelligent life. Are all fertilized eggs in a woman considered intelligent life

This isn’t English.

It also isn’t relevant.

 

[Dante Reawakened]

You are getting close to the arguments made by the Nazis in regards to those of the Jewish faith.

really? The Rightwing Nazis in Germany used scientific facts to go after people of the Jewish faith? I seem to remember they called Jewsihness a race too?

 

[Dante Reawakened]

This isn’t English.

It also isn’t relevant.

relevant to what?

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Living human being? What is considered a human being? Is a fetus considered a living human being?

There are other mammals. Not all fetuses are human beings. Pigs in the fetal stage of life are pigs, not human beings.

Human beings in the fetal stage of life are certainly alive though, and they are certainly human beings, and not some other species.

and legal person-hood? Babies and young children have legal guardians, including the state. Should the state monitor sex and step in as a guardian when an egg is fertilized?

Unborn kids have a mother and a father. There is no need to step in unless there is evidence of abuse.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Killed? What does kill mean?
I guess in the same way taking a chicken's eggsis killing baby chicks. Can one kill an animal, a mamal that doesn't have a fully functioning brain and is not yet born?

Can living things be killed? Yes.
Can young living things be killed? Same answer, yes. End of question.

 

[HeyNorm]

really? The Rightwing Nazis in Germany used scientific facts to go after people of the Jewish faith? I seem to remember they called Jewsihness a race too?

They made the argument that the Jews were somehow subhuman and did not deserve protection from their government.

I thought those arguments had been defeated with that government. But we have those using the same arguments today.