Zone1 What About Those In Non-Christian Lands Who Have Never Heard The Gospel?

[JAG]

Question: How is God good or just to abandon to Hell those who have never even heard the gospel?

JAG Writes:

Consider the following:

First, we Bible believing Christians start with the true proclamation that
God always does that which is right.

This means that the God who always does what is right, world-wide
and history-wide, is never going to abandon one of His elect to Gehenna,
but will find a way to save them and give them the gift of eternal life as
per John 3:16's "shall not perish but have eternal life."

Second, we Bible believing Christians MUST stay within the confines
of doctrinal orthodoxy and so we hold solid and fast to John 14:6
that correctly teaches: no man can come to the Father except through
believing in the Lord Jesus as his Savior.

Third, none of the above prevents us from considering the following:

Eternal Now. With regard to God's knowledge there is no past. present and future.
God sees everything in the Eternal NOW. God's Omniscience demands this position.
God now knows all that can be known, God does not learn new information and new truths.


So?

So the Eternal NOW knowledge is God's reality. And God's reality IS REALITY.

What YOU (we) can see is very limited and what YOU (we) can see IS NOT REALITY.

God has Middle Knowledge -- what that means is that God sees and knows fully
what every human being would choose to do under all possible sets of different
circumstances.


Let us take for an example a man named Akua Adisa, born in Africa in the year 1600 A.D.

Akua lived and died never knowing a single word of the gospel message.

God's Middle Knowledge knows precisely what Akua Adisa will choose to do in all possible
sets of circumstances --

-- for example if Akua Adisa had been born in, say, South Carolina in the year 1990 A.D.
and had traveled to hear Franklin Graham preach the gospel.


How is this ↓ conclusion NOT compelling?
If the Sovereign God knows that Akua Adisa would have accepted the Lord Jesus as his
Savior if he had been born in the year 1990 A.D. in South Carolina when he heard Franklin
Graham preach the gospel then in God's reality Akua Adisa has accepted the Lord Jesus as
his Savior and has therefore fulfilled the requirements of John 14:6 no man can come to the
Father except through faith in the Lord Jesus.

Are we not compelled to reach this conclusion?

Thoughts?

__________________________

PS
God's Omniscience demands we hold that God has what the philosophers call
Middle Knowledge.


JAG

[]

 

[Woodznutz]

We are in the 'church age', the metaphoric early/spring harvest, in which the church will rise to eternal life in the first resurrection. The greater latter/fall harvest of souls, those called "the rest of the dead", who may never have heard the gospel, will occur during the second resurrection and judgment period that takes place during the millennial rule of Christ on earth. This pattern is clearly shown through the annual holy days commanded by God in the OT.

 

[JGalt]

Question: How is God good or just to abandon to Hell those who have never even heard the gospel?

Well there's a good job for you, prospective evangelist. Go there and give them God's word yourself.

 

[jwoodie]

This is how the rigid application of doctrine gets you in trouble.

 

[Arlette]

Question: How is God good or just to abandon to Hell those who have never even heard the gospel?

JAG Writes:

Consider the following:

First, we Bible believing Christians start with the true proclamation that
God always does that which is right.

This means that the God who always does what is right, world-wide
and history-wide, is never going to abandon one of His elect to Gehenna,
but will find a way to save them and give them the gift of eternal life as
per John 3:16's "shall not perish but have eternal life."

Second, we Bible believing Christians MUST stay within the confines
of doctrinal orthodoxy and so we hold solid and fast to John 14:6
that correctly teaches: no man can come to the Father except through
believing in the Lord Jesus as his Savior.

Third, none of the above prevents us from considering the following:

Eternal Now. With regard to God's knowledge there is no past. present and future.
God sees everything in the Eternal NOW. God's Omniscience demands this position.
God now knows all that can be known, God does not learn new information and new truths.


So?

So the Eternal NOW knowledge is God's reality. And God's reality IS REALITY.

What YOU (we) can see is very limited and what YOU (we) can see IS NOT REALITY.

God has Middle Knowledge -- what that means is that God sees and knows fully
what every human being would choose to do under all possible sets of different
circumstances.


Let us take for an example a man named Akua Adisa, born in Africa in the year 1600 A.D.

Akua lived and died never knowing a single word of the gospel message.

God's Middle Knowledge knows precisely what Akua Adisa will choose to do in all possible
sets of circumstances --

-- for example if Akua Adisa had been born in, say, South Carolina in the year 1990 A.D.
and had traveled to hear Franklin Graham preach the gospel.


How is this ↓ conclusion NOT compelling?
If the Sovereign God knows that Akua Adisa would have accepted the Lord Jesus as his
Savior if he had been born in the year 1990 A.D. in South Carolina when he heard Franklin
Graham preach the gospel then in God's reality Akua Adisa has accepted the Lord Jesus as
his Savior and has therefore fulfilled the requirements of John 14:6 no man can come to the
Father except through faith in the Lord Jesus.

Are we not compelled to reach this conclusion?

Thoughts?

__________________________

PS
God's Omniscience demands we hold that God has what the philosophers call
Middle Knowledge.


JAG

[]

I'm just grateful that I don't waste any gray matter thinking about stuff like that.

 

[JAG]

We are in the 'church age', the metaphoric early/spring harvest, in which the church will rise to eternal life in the first resurrection. The greater latter/fall harvest of souls, those called "the rest of the dead", who may never have heard the gospel, will occur during the second resurrection and judgment period that takes place during the millennial rule of Christ on earth. This pattern is clearly shown through the annual holy days commanded by God in the OT.

Thank you for your insights.

Best

JAG

[]

 

[JAG]

Well there's a good job for you, prospective evangelist. Go there and give them God's word yourself.

’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

Best

JAG

[]

 

[JAG]

I'm just grateful that I don't waste any gray matter thinking about stuff like that.

Keep everything simple, eh?

Best

JAG

[]

 

[JGalt]

’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

Best

JAG

[]

Speaking in tongues already? Congratulations on your conversion to Christianity, bro.

 

[Dekster]

Question: How is God good or just to abandon to Hell those who have never even heard the gospel?

JAG Writes:

Consider the following:

First, we Bible believing Christians start with the true proclamation that
God always does that which is right.

This means that the God who always does what is right, world-wide
and history-wide, is never going to abandon one of His elect to Gehenna,
but will find a way to save them and give them the gift of eternal life as
per John 3:16's "shall not perish but have eternal life."

Second, we Bible believing Christians MUST stay within the confines
of doctrinal orthodoxy and so we hold solid and fast to John 14:6
that correctly teaches: no man can come to the Father except through
believing in the Lord Jesus as his Savior.

Third, none of the above prevents us from considering the following:

Eternal Now. With regard to God's knowledge there is no past. present and future.
God sees everything in the Eternal NOW. God's Omniscience demands this position.
God now knows all that can be known, God does not learn new information and new truths.


So?

So the Eternal NOW knowledge is God's reality. And God's reality IS REALITY.

What YOU (we) can see is very limited and what YOU (we) can see IS NOT REALITY.

God has Middle Knowledge -- what that means is that God sees and knows fully
what every human being would choose to do under all possible sets of different
circumstances.


Let us take for an example a man named Akua Adisa, born in Africa in the year 1600 A.D.

Akua lived and died never knowing a single word of the gospel message.

God's Middle Knowledge knows precisely what Akua Adisa will choose to do in all possible
sets of circumstances --

-- for example if Akua Adisa had been born in, say, South Carolina in the year 1990 A.D.
and had traveled to hear Franklin Graham preach the gospel.


How is this ↓ conclusion NOT compelling?
If the Sovereign God knows that Akua Adisa would have accepted the Lord Jesus as his
Savior if he had been born in the year 1990 A.D. in South Carolina when he heard Franklin
Graham preach the gospel then in God's reality Akua Adisa has accepted the Lord Jesus as
his Savior and has therefore fulfilled the requirements of John 14:6 no man can come to the
Father except through faith in the Lord Jesus.

Are we not compelled to reach this conclusion?

Thoughts?

__________________________

PS
God's Omniscience demands we hold that God has what the philosophers call
Middle Knowledge.


JAG

[]

I suppose that would depend on whether or not there will be 1,000 years after all are risen from the grave in which to receive the gospel or have a do-over.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Thoughts?

"Traditional Christians" who came out of Catholicism/Protestantism don't understand God's Plan or His timeline.

ALL will have their opportunity. A person only needs to focus on THEIR relationship with God.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

We are in the 'church age', the metaphoric early/spring harvest, in which the church will rise to eternal life in the first resurrection. The greater latter/fall harvest of souls, those called "the rest of the dead", who may never have heard the gospel, will occur during the second resurrection and judgment period that takes place during the millennial rule of Christ on earth. This pattern is clearly shown through the annual holy days commanded by God in the OT.

You know what you're talking about.

I don't know your history, or your story, but you are my Christian brother

 

[Zebra]

’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

Best

JAG

[]

Long live Lewis Carroll!

 

[BreezeWood]

We are in the 'church age', the metaphoric early/spring harvest, in which the church will rise to eternal life in the first resurrection. The greater latter/fall harvest of souls, those called "the rest of the dead", who may never have heard the gospel, will occur during the second resurrection and judgment period that takes place during the millennial rule of Christ on earth. This pattern is clearly shown through the annual holy days commanded by God in the OT.

- all know not to sin and those who live what they know will be the heavenly bound for all time to come.

 

[JAG]

Supplement to the article:

What about those in non-Christian lands in say 1600 A.D. who died
having never heard a single world of the gospel message? Is God
good and just to abandon such persons to Gehenna? And does He
actually do that?

It is important to find a reasonable solution to the problems raised
by these three questions because the notion that God consigns to Gehenna
for all eternity all people (past, present, and future) who lived and died
without ever hearing the gospel, characterizes God as unreasonable,
mean-spirited and cruel (which He most certainly is not).

Many who hold the view that God does do exactly that, have not paused
to seriously consider what they so readily believe about the character of
God.

Akua Adisa was born in 1600 A.D. in Africa and he lived to an old age and
died without ever hearing a single word of the gospel.

Are you going to proclaim that God will consign Akua to sternal Hell and
at the same time tell everybody that "God is love?"

Remember, on the traditional view of Hell, when Akua has suffered in agony
in Hell for 999 trillion (to the power of 500) years, he is no nearer to the end
than when he first entered Hell. It is not possible to reconcile such as this
with 1 John 4:8 "God is love."

Thought Experiment:
How long is an Eternity of agony in Hell? Let us say a sparrow is magically
assigned the task of cutting the Earth in half and the sparrow is to fly by
the Earth every 100 years and brush one of its wings against the ground
surface of the Earth. How many years would it take the sparrow to cut the
Earth in half? For argument's sake let us say it took in years 999 trillion to
the power of 999 trillion. So? So Akua Adisa, after being in agony in
Hell for as long as it took that sparrow to cut the Earth in half, would be no
closer to the end of his agony than when he first entered Hell.

Such as this is not possible to reconcile with 1 John 4:8 "God is love"
or with the general character of God as presented in the Bible.

We need a solution to this problem and a good start in finding one is God's
Middle Knowledge as presented in this article.

JAG

[]