Zone1 We know Hell is painful, but what about Purgatory?

[1miseryindex]

Well, this is interesting. I was almost tempted not to give the following link, because I have already read up on this topic. But obviously, others have not necessarily done so.

So the first thing I read here confirms what I have been saying about Purgatory for decades now, namely that it is like Hell

except that it comes to an end. So I am going to finish reading this article, will comment further tomorrow, God willing

The saints tell us what Purgatory is actually like

More painful than anything on earth, and yet more peaceful than anywhere but Heaven.

aleteia.org

 

[Crepitus]

Well, this is interesting. I was almost tempted not to give the following link, because I have already read up on this topic. But obviously, others have not necessarily done so.

So the first thing I read here confirms what I have been saying about Purgatory for decades now, namely that it is like Hell

except that it comes to an end. So I am going to finish reading this article, will comment further tomorrow, God willing

The saints tell us what Purgatory is actually like

More painful than anything on earth, and yet more peaceful than anywhere but Heaven.

aleteia.org

How do you know hell is painful?

Have you spoken to someone who's been there?

 

[1miseryindex]

How do you know hell is painful?

Have you spoken to someone who's been there?

How do you know it isn't?

Have you spoken with someone who's been there?

 

[Crepitus]

How do you know it isn't?

Have you spoken with someone who's been there?

I'm not making a claim either way, kid. You are.

Can you back it up?

 

[1miseryindex]

I'm not making a claim either way, kid. You are.

Can you back it up?

all the evidence and info I contain in my brain plus all the info on the internet about it

would not convince you or even give u pause, apparently

so yeh... I don't believe in wasting time.. Do your own homework

 

[Crepitus]

all the evidence and info I contain in my brain plus all the info on the internet about it

would not convince you or even give u pause, apparently

so yeh... I don't believe in wasting time.. Do your own homework

A simple "no" would have sufficed.

 

[1miseryindex]

people who want u to do their homework

sheez

 

[Pete7469]

You sure you ain't there now?

 

[MarathonMike]

How do you know hell is painful?

Have you spoken to someone who's been there?

I had the same question. And also a related question: How would a disembodied spiritual entity feel pain at all?

 

[Crepitus]

I had the same question. And also a related question: How would a disembodied spiritual entity feel pain at all?

Good question for sure.

 

[Meriweather]

I had the same question. And also a related question: How would a disembodied spiritual entity feel pain at all?

Grief, anguish, sorrow, regret can all cause pain to us without it being physical pain.

 

[ninja007]

purgatory is a lie from the rcc to get indulgences just stop pro,oting this dangerous lie. heaven or hell that is it. Jesus said it is finished once and for all- either His sacrifice and free gift of salvation is enough or it isnt. many rc's will be in hell. not an imagined purgatory. its too bad youll have to find out the hard way unless you accept Jesus as your personal Savior.

 

[ninja007]

There is only one way to be cleansed by Christ blood this what he came for he suffered in our place. The bible teaches that in Heb.1:3 after he purged our sins he sat down at the right hand of God Heb.10:11-12 A high priest never sat down unless his task was completed. Can our own prayers and money accomplish what he supposedly failed in. Is Christ’s death insufficient or sufficient? Heb.9:22, "without the shedding of blood their is no forgiveness of sins." There is no more sacrifice for sin . It was completed, almost 2,000 years ago. 1 Jn.1:7, "The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." The O.T. sacrifices were given over and over because they could never take away our sin. This is what the mass is claimed to do. One must continually repeat it because of its temporary affect. Christ sacrifice is permanent only he as a person can bring us to God not through a wafer or any other means. Col. 1:20having made peace through the blood of the cross."vs.22 In the body of (Jesus) his flesh through death to present yourselves holy and blameless and irreproachable in is sight." Because of what he did we are accepted. The father accepted the payment… now it’s up to you to do the same.

 

[ninja007]

since catholics believe in purgatory they are not trusting in Jesus to cleanse them from all sin. They are trusting in a false man made doctrine that will send them to hell.
The Catholic Church used 2nd Maccabees for validation but they excluded 4th Esdras7:105 "Speaking of death declares no one shall ever pray for another on that day." they rejected this because it went against their own new doctrine.


The Bible is even clearer Ps 49:7-9, "None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him-- For the redemption of their souls is costly, and it shall cease forever--That he should continue to live eternally, and not seethe Pit." There is no payment for sin except the blood of Gods Son on the cross this is what God the Father accepts, nothing less, nothing else.

 

[luiza]

Amazing to see the mumbo jumbo employed by Cult Christians to support their invention of the idea of Purgatory.

They would be far better off researching metempsychosis which is the period after death and before the soul's next incarnation .

Michael Newton's work is most instructive in this area and he sets up problems for the believers in mumbo jumbo that they simply have no answers for .
imho

 

[ninja007]

The False Hope of Purgatory by John MacArthur​

Let’s be clear from the outset: The Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory is taught nowhere in Scripture. It was invented to accommodate Catholicism’s denial of justification by faith alone. And it offers false hope to millions who anticipate ample time beyond the grave—perhaps eons, if necessary—to achieve their own justification.
Scripture very clearly teaches that an absolutely perfect righteousness is necessary for entry into heaven. Jesus said, “I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:20). He then added, “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48)—thus setting the standard as high as it can possibly be set.

The Only Way to Heaven
Later in His ministry, when the rich young ruler approached Jesus to ask how he might enter heaven, Jesus upheld this same standard of absolute perfection. He began by challenging the clear implication that the young man hoped he could attain a sufficient goodness of his own to merit heaven: “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good” (Matthew 19:17). Notice: Jesus did not disclaim that He Himself was sinlessly perfect (a common misinterpretation of this passage). He was simply pointing out plainly that the standard of perfection required to earn heaven is impossible for fallen creatures.
Because the young man was undeterred by this, however, Jesus told him that to obtain eternal life, he must have a track record of perfect obedience to the law (Matthew 19:17-22). Again and again, Jesus made the required standard of righteousness impossibly high for all who would seek to earn God’s favor on their own.
The young ruler clearly did not understand or acknowledge his own sinfulness. He assured Jesus that he had indeed kept the law from his youth up (v. 20).
Jesus subtly pointed out the young man’s covetousness (v. 21), which was a violation of the tenth commandment. From the outset of His conversation with the young man, the Lord was prodding him to confess that no one but God Himself is truly good. But the rich young ruler was unwilling to face his own sinfulness, and so he went away without salvation.
The disciples marveled at this. The young man was evidently—from a human perspective—one of the most righteous individuals they’d encountered. Notice that no one disputed his claim that he had obeyed the law. That suggests there were no overt sins in his life that anyone could point to. He seemed the best of men. So the disciples were floored when he walked away with no assurance of eternal life from Jesus. In fact, Jesus told them, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:23-24).
There’s no mistaking Jesus’ point. He was setting the standard at an impossible height. He was saying that the most fastidious legal observance is not enough. The most flawless external righteousness is not enough. All the worldly advantages of wealth are of no help. Only absolute perfection is acceptable to God. Our Lord kept underscoring these truths because He wanted people to see the utter futility of trying to earn righteousness by any system of works.
The disciples got the message. They asked, “Then who can be saved?” (Matthew 19:25).
And Jesus replied, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:26).
Accepted By Imputation
We know from Paul’s treatise on justification in Romans 4 that God saves believers by imputing to them the merit of Christ’s perfect righteousness—by no means because of their own righteousness. God accepts believers “in Christ.” He clothes them with the perfect righteousness of Christ. He declares them perfectly righteous because of Christ. Their sins have been imputed to Christ, who has paid the full penalty. His righteousness is now imputed to them—and through His imputed righteousness—they receive His full merit. That is what justification by faith means. The Father “made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
In other words, God does not first make us perfect, then accept us on that basis. He first legally justifies us by imputing to us an alien righteousness, then perfects us by conforming us to the image of Christ. He “justifies the ungodly” (Romans 4:5).
Paul wrote, “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). Those verses describe our justification as something already accomplished—a completed reality, not something we are striving for. Jesus Himself described justification as an immediate event when He told how the repentant publican was saved after begging God for mercy: “I tell you, this man went to his house justified” (Luke 18:14).
Scripture clearly and consistently attests to justification as a settled fact for every believer; it is not an ongoing process. We stand before God in faith right now, fully acceptable to Him because of Christ’s righteousness—not because of any doings of our own.
False Doctrine and False Hope
Roman Catholic doctrine denies all of that. Catholicism teaches that justification is an ongoing process that depends on the degree of real, personal righteousness we achieve. According to Rome, Christ’s merit imputed to us is not enough to save; we must earn more merit of our own through the sacraments and other good works. Righteousness is infused into us (rather than being imputed to us). But it is obvious that we are not perfectly righteous by any practical measure. So the righteousness we obtain by grace must be perfected by our own efforts.
According to Catholic teaching, this real, personal righteousness that resides in us is the necessary ground on which God accepts us. And our justification is not complete until we are really and completely perfect—by an inherent righteousness, not merely by a legally imputed righteousness. This actually reverses the biblical order, suggesting that we must first be perfected, and only then is our justification complete. In other words, in Roman Catholic doctrine, God does not justify the ungodly.
The Catholic view of justification poses an obvious dilemma. We know too well that even the best Christians fall far short of perfection. No one (Catholic teaching actually says almost no one) achieves absolute perfection in this life. And if our own perfection is a prerequisite for heaven, it would seem no one could enter there immediately upon dying. Any remaining imperfections would need to be worked out first.
The invention of purgatory was necessary to solve this dilemma. Deny that we are justified by faith alone, and you must devise an explanation of how we can make the transition from our imperfect state in this life to the perfect state of heaven. Purgatory is where Roman Catholics believe most people go after death to be finally purged of their remaining guilt and gain whatever merit they may be lacking to enter heaven. Catholicism teaches that this process involves intense pain and suffering.
Oddly enough, although Catholic doctrine denies that the imputed righteousness of Christ is sufficient to save sinners in this life, it does allow the imputation of righteousness from living sinners to those in purgatory. This is why masses are said for the dead. Supposedly the righteousness earned by way of the sacrament is imputed to the person in purgatory, which shortens his or her stay there.
The Catholic doctrine of purgatory offers false hope to people hoping to atone for their own sins on the other side of the grave. Rome’s warped and perverted view of justification will undoubtedly usher into eternal torment many who expected to have more time to achieve perfection.

 

[crossbody]

I don't believe in purgatory as something we pitstop at any more in this dispensation era for today's Church, but I will respect others who do believe in it.

Jesus told the thief on the cross, today you will be with me in paradise-not in purgatory, but in paradise.

 

[Meriweather]

Jesus told the thief on the cross, today you will be with me in paradise-not in purgatory, but in paradise.

How do you picture paradise? In ancient Greece it was an enclosed park or garden; in ancient Hebrew it was the Garden of Eden. Paradise has also been associated with a garden/park outside the gates of heaven.

We also know that after his death Jesus did not immediately ascend into heaven, but to the dead; he ascended into heaven after his resurrection.

 

[crossbody]

How do you picture paradise? In ancient Greece it was an enclosed park or garden; in ancient Hebrew it was the Garden of Eden. Paradise has also been associated with a garden/park outside the gates of heaven.

We also know that after his death Jesus did not immediately ascend into heaven, but to the dead; he ascended into heaven after his resurrection.

It's a mystery that no one can explain because they cannot say that God told them this.. nor that Jesus told them that... concerning the paradise Jesus was speaking of, nor do they have any proof that Jesus did not go to paradise like he said. I trust that Jesus would not lie.

 

[crossbody]

Could it be that Jesus got the thief to paradise first, then he descended to hell to get that group out, then he rose from the dead, then ascended into the clouds???