We Have the Right to Assemble and Freedom of Religion - Unlawful Arrest of Preacher

OldLady

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Ya' just can't defeat the Christian church. The Soviet Union tried for decades.
There are other ways to worship right now that are safe. Most pastors have adopted them to protect their flocks. Louisiana is fixin to become another hotspot, from what I hear. Social distancing at the LEAST is a good idea right now.
True, congregations can find other ways to hold services.

My point is that the church is not easy to oppose.
Faith is hard to squash out, I agree. This is not about faith, though. This is about headlines, I think. People of faith don't need to congregate en masse to hold onto their beliefs.
 

norwegen

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Ya' just can't defeat the Christian church. The Soviet Union tried for decades.
And those on the left wrong have been trying to do so here in this country, for not quite as many decades, and without nearly as much power behind them. But they keep trying, and it's no surprise to see them exploiting this manufactured crisis for this purpose.
The best the left can do to compete is establish and feed their "liberal" churches.

The crisis is quite real, though; a lot of people are dying. But they do seem to delight in posting stories on these boards about the arrest of pastors. And I don't imagine we've seen the last such story.

Like I say, the church is not easy to oppose.
 

OldLady

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Why did they just arrest the preacher? Why not everybody?
If they gave every one of them a ticket, the town wouldn't need to put up a speed trap for WEEKS.
 

Faun

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Also, given that the church deliberately provoked this conflict, it definitely doesn't meet the definition of "persecution", and the pastor and his attendees are no kind of "heroes" or "martyrs".
It wasn't the church that tried to illegally shut down the government. It was the government that tried to illegally shut down the church, in blatant and inexcusable violation of the First Amendment. It was government that manufactured a fake crisis, and then tried to use it as an excuse to trash the Constitution.
Congregating at the church was not the only option. They could have performed their services online.
 

norwegen

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Ya' just can't defeat the Christian church. The Soviet Union tried for decades.
Nonsense – another rightwing lie.

All large venues are being restricted, all religions are being effected, keeping citizens safe and alive is in no manner ‘anti-Christian.’
When did I say that not all large venues are being restricted?

You really are not the sharpest tool in the shed. That's why I typically don't answer you.
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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All of our mega churches have chosen other ways of holding services here. Many of them are heavily involved in "charity work". You can't do that when all of the peeps that were holding down the fort are all of a sudden in desperate need.

Some people are just hard headed.
Seems he's trying to be a hero; probably imagines himself another voice in the wilderness objecting to an unfair government, like Thoreau sitting in jail.
He’s being reckless and irresponsible.

And government is not being ‘unfair’; this reprehensible conduct is in no way like Thoreau.
 

Cecilie1200

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Also, given that the church deliberately provoked this conflict, it definitely doesn't meet the definition of "persecution", and the pastor and his attendees are no kind of "heroes" or "martyrs".
It wasn't the church that tried to illegally shut down the government. It was the government that tried to illegally shut down the church, in blatant and inexcusable violation of the First Amendment. It was government that manufactured a fake crisis, and then tried to use it as an excuse to trash the Constitution.
Straw man. I never said the church tried to shut down the government, so arguing against a point I didn't make is a dodge.

I said the church deliberately provoked a conflict, and will expand that by saying it's a conflict that never needed to exist at all. Under the circumstances, I don't think the shutdown was illegal at all, although that's very obviously a question the courts will have to weigh in on.

And while it's still very much up in the air how serious this situation is, I wouldn't be expecting your assertion that the coronavirus is a whole lot of nothing to be simply accepted as a debate parameter if I were you.

The government is not "trying to trash the Constitution", so get your shorts out of the uproar they're in. I'm not impressed with anyone's fervent desire to find and decry "persecution" to the point of inventing it.
 

Polishprince

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Also, given that the church deliberately provoked this conflict, it definitely doesn't meet the definition of "persecution", and the pastor and his attendees are no kind of "heroes" or "martyrs".
It wasn't the church that tried to illegally shut down the government. It was the government that tried to illegally shut down the church, in blatant and inexcusable violation of the First Amendment. It was government that manufactured a fake crisis, and then tried to use it as an excuse to trash the Constitution.
Congregating at the church was not the only option. They could have performed their services online.

Not everyone has online access you know.

Computers are limited ,they have not yet found a way to deliver smell waves, so that the congregants can smell the incense. And how will snake handling denominations going to reproduce that experience online
 

OldLady

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All of our mega churches have chosen other ways of holding services here. Many of them are heavily involved in "charity work". You can't do that when all of the peeps that were holding down the fort are all of a sudden in desperate need.

Some people are just hard headed.
Seems he's trying to be a hero; probably imagines himself another voice in the wilderness objecting to an unfair government, like Thoreau sitting in jail.
He’s being reckless and irresponsible.

And government is not being ‘unfair’; this reprehensible conduct is in no way like Thoreau.
IF the pastor is doing this to defy the government orders, how is it different from Thoreau? I agree the government is not being unfair, but neither were the taxes Thoreau objected to. He just didn't agree with how the government was spending them.
A brief reminder from Wiki:
Thoreau was jailed for refusing to pay a poll tax on the grounds that the money might be used to pay for the Mexican–American War, which he opposed.
 

Cecilie1200

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Also, given that the church deliberately provoked this conflict, it definitely doesn't meet the definition of "persecution", and the pastor and his attendees are no kind of "heroes" or "martyrs".
It wasn't the church that tried to illegally shut down the government. It was the government that tried to illegally shut down the church, in blatant and inexcusable violation of the First Amendment. It was government that manufactured a fake crisis, and then tried to use it as an excuse to trash the Constitution.
Congregating at the church was not the only option. They could have performed their services online.
Other churches have found a lot of ways to maintain the fellowship and community that is the purpose of attending church, many of them quite creative.

I think anyone who believes that physical presence in a building with other people once a week (or more) regardless of any other considerations is what worshipping God is all about is doing it wrong and missing the entire point of the exercise.
 

Syriusly

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You keep going on about Democrats, but a Republican governor issued the stay at home order that the police enforced. :dunno:
The OP raised an issue worth discussing but has shot his own thread in the foot by making stupid partisan attacks- such as blaming Democrats for what a Republican has done.
 

Polishprince

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The problem right now is the "open-ended" nature of this Coronavirus bullshit. Will it be essentially over by 1 May? Or are the people in Indianapolis on target by delaying the 500 in May and the Wimbleton folks for canceling their July event?

The pastors can have the patience of Job I guess, but some may have doubts this will ever end
 

WEATHER53

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Looks like some of our government officials haven't read the Constitution.

---Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne was charged with misdemeanor counts of unlawful assembly---

I'll be looking forward to the preacher's parishoners dropping dead over the next few weeks. The laying on of hands -- how did that work out? Morons
Or your worst fear that none of them are sickened
 

Vandalshandle

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You all think this is cute to limit Christians' rights to assemble now, but realize when the immune suppressed get together in the next regular flu season, when 60K people die anyway, and say ALL big gathering should be limited because they spread germs, you have less and less of a leg to stand on.

I mean I know these things like individual rights and freedoms are sooooo 18th century. But you might want to free your mind a little bit.
Well, by god, Sue, you should immediately file a lawsuit in Federal Court about this...if you can find a court that is still in session.
 

Syriusly

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Ya' just can't defeat the Christian church. The Soviet Union tried for decades.
Not even sure what your point is.

Closing churches to prevent the spread of disease is not about defeating 'the Christian church'- since the rules apply to everyone, and plenty of churches, synogogues and mosques are finding ways to share community through other means- hell televangelists have been broadcasting services for decades- there are plaenty of ways that the faithful can honor their faith without endangering their fellow church members grandparents and kids.
 

White 6

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Ya' just can't defeat the Christian church. The Soviet Union tried for decades.
Nobody trying to defeat the churches in Louisianan. Just hoping they do not have to re-open the leper colonies to deal with religious fanatics with no concerns about public health. Packed church pews, the evening after being issued misdemeanor citation in the nation's newest hot spot is beyond the pale.
 

Faun

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Also, given that the church deliberately provoked this conflict, it definitely doesn't meet the definition of "persecution", and the pastor and his attendees are no kind of "heroes" or "martyrs".
It wasn't the church that tried to illegally shut down the government. It was the government that tried to illegally shut down the church, in blatant and inexcusable violation of the First Amendment. It was government that manufactured a fake crisis, and then tried to use it as an excuse to trash the Constitution.
Congregating at the church was not the only option. They could have performed their services online.

Not everyone has online access you know.

Computers are limited ,they have not yet found a way to deliver smell waves, so that the congregants can smell the incense. And how will snake handling denominations going to reproduce that experience online
People can burn their own incense and handle their own snakes.
 

Syriusly

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Ya' just can't defeat the Christian church. The Soviet Union tried for decades.
And those on the left wrong have been trying to do so here in this country, for not quite as many decades, and without nearly as much power behind them. But they keep trying, and it's no surprise to see them exploiting this manufactured crisis for this purpose.
The best the left can do to compete is establish and feed their "liberal" churches.

The crisis is quite real, though; a lot of people are dying. But they do seem to delight in posting stories on these boards about the arrest of pastors. And I don't imagine we've seen the last such story.

Like I say, the church is not easy to oppose.
A) There are lots of 'liberal' churches- including Episcopalians, Universalists and AME
B) The thread was not started by a liberal- it was one of your fellow conservatives who started this thread.
C) This is not about 'opposing' 'the church'- the same rules apply to every faith and every public gathering.

Why do you seem to think that Christians should be exempt from the rules that apply to everyone else?
 

Pogo

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Also, given that the church deliberately provoked this conflict, it definitely doesn't meet the definition of "persecution", and the pastor and his attendees are no kind of "heroes" or "martyrs".
It wasn't the church that tried to illegally shut down the government. It was the government that tried to illegally shut down the church, in blatant and inexcusable violation of the First Amendment. It was government that manufactured a fake crisis, and then tried to use it as an excuse to trash the Constitution.
Congregating at the church was not the only option. They could have performed their services online.
Other churches have found a lot of ways to maintain the fellowship and community that is the purpose of attending church, many of them quite creative.

I think anyone who believes that physical presence in a building with other people once a week (or more) regardless of any other considerations is what worshipping God is all about is doing it wrong and missing the entire point of the exercise.
EXACTLY --- you can't profess that "God is everywhere" and then whine that "but he's only in here".
 

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