We are the 99%

[bripat9643]

Bill Ayers certainly IS involved, his own words.

What evidence do you have to support that, other than that he copied the manifesto and published it on his own website, something many others have also done?

Secondly, even if he was, in what way does that discredit OWS?

It shows the kind of people who support OWS: known terrorists and Communist thugs.

 

[boedicca]

OWS: Anarchists for Big Government

 

[bripat9643]

OWS: Anarchists for Big Government

OWS: Communists for slavery.

 

[Si modo]

Yes, his site. He supports OWS, obviously.

In other words, aside from that, you have no evidence that he is in any way involved with OWS or vice-versa.
....

"Aside from" him publishing that on HIS site?

So, should we conclude that he is against this because he published it on HIS site?

Really.

You think that makes sense?

I'm pretty confident in concluding, because of that, that Bill Ayers, the terrorist pig and piece of shit, supports OWS.

Your mileage may vary.

And, Bill Ayers is a terrorist pig and a piece of shit, and so is his wife. He was, and is, an enemy of the USA and of our Constitution. He is an admitted murderer.

In other words, you have no answer to my second question, and are simply foaming at the mouth.

Did Ayers rape you years ago or something? Or are you a former Weatherman who thinks he sold the movement out? Your feelings about him seem awfully personal.

Nothing personal about them. These are factual words: Bill Ayers was a terrorist. His wife is as well. He is an admitted murderer. He was and enemy of the USA and our Constitution.

Now, my opinion based on those facts: Terrorists, former terrorists, are pigs and pieces of shit.

 

[francoHFW]

Bill Ayers certainly IS involved, his own words.

What evidence do you have to support that, other than that he copied the manifesto and published it on his own website, something many others have also done?

Secondly, even if he was, in what way does that discredit OWS?

It shows the kind of people who support OWS: known terrorists and Communist thugs.

You're a brainwashed hater moron. Change the channel. Hoping for your recovery.

 

[Dragon]

So, should we conclude that he is against this because he published it on HIS site?

No. Should we conclude that OWS is a bad thing unless he's against it?

If he came out in support of breathing, would you hold your breath?

Nothing personal about them.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you, although I don't understand this. If it were just an expression of opinion about a former 1960s radical, you might mention it in passing ONCE. But you go on and on and on and on, repeating the same thing over and over and over and over . . . and you do this whenever his name comes up. You did the same thing on the USPoliticsOnLine board during the flap over Ayers in 2008.

This is obsession. And I don't understand why you are so obsessed.

In any case, you still haven't answered my question. If Ayers supports this cause, as he supports many other progressive causes, in what way does that say anything about OWS except that it IS a progressive cause?

 

[yidnar]

Bill Ayers certainly IS involved, his own words.

What evidence do you have to support that, other than that he copied the manifesto and published it on his own website, something many others have also done?

Secondly, even if he was, in what way does that discredit OWS?

why do you care ??the fact that bill ayers supports the left does not in anyway make a leftist stop and think !!! nothing can induce rational thought in a left wing traitor !!!

 

[bripat9643]

It shows the kind of people who support OWS: known terrorists and Communist thugs.

You're a brainwashed hater moron. Change the channel. Hoping for your recovery.

That really struck a nerve, eh?

 

[Againsheila]

Long live the 'Republic'? Which one? The People's Republic of China?

Get a ******* job, asshole.

You mean you forgot we're a republic? Or did you never learn that, what with our crummy public schools and all.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and to the republic for which it stands
one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for ALL.

 

[Againsheila]

Bill Ayers certainly IS involved, his own words.

What evidence do you have to support that, other than that he copied the manifesto and published it on his own website, something many others have also done?

Secondly, even if he was, in what way does that discredit OWS?

It shows the kind of people who support OWS: known terrorists and Communist thugs.

I haven't paid much attention to this subject, but now, I'm thinking I should join them. I am part of the 99%. So are you, if you'd admit it to yourself.

BTW, I'm not a known terrorist and I'm not a communist thug, but feel free to call me one, this is still America after all.

 

[flacaltenn]

There is plenty of thought out there -- there are voices in academia, in economics, in politics on how to reverse the trend of the last thirty years. One of the better ones is Paul Krugman. There are plenty of others, too.

But they aren't being listened to by those in government, because the voice of corporate contributions drowns out the sound of the people's pain.

Noise is exactly what is needed.

So you skipped all the meaty stuff about how world wide redistribution of economic power and wealth is a proximate cause to all this. And how Socialists should be HAILING the fact that the USA is getting deflated back to "it's fair share".. And instead of being part of the solution to this problem -- you're encouraging "noise".. Goin all vulture on the carcass of what's left. INSTEAD of leadership to change the composition and skills of our workforce. Instead of policies that allow NEW vibrant "people-responsive" companies to knock off the ossified old corporate ones.

And you DON'T do any of that useful stuff because you mistakenly believe that corporations are ALL to blame for Govt/Corp collusion... Now there's the prob Dragon. You got that ass-backwards. The Power and Money would STILL go out without political contributions. We KNOW THAT FOR A FACT. Because that's how business got conducted even in Communist countries with a ONE party monopoly. It's the unaccountable scope of handouts and the DEALERS. Who GAVE GE those "Jollly Green" Tax Credits? And why aren't you mobilizing on THEIR front lawn in Georgetown?

You want to go after the H.S. kids buying the weed instead of the PUSHER!!

Does "work for the people" imply MORE POWER to be doled out? Of course it does in the leftist lexicon. And that's EXACTLY the WRONG direction to head if you're trying to stop a corporatist takeover.

 

[Si modo]

So, should we conclude that he is against this because he published it on HIS site?

No. Should we conclude that OWS is a bad thing unless he's against it?

If he came out in support of breathing, would you hold your breath?

....

Asked and answered. You should pay attention to what I write.

For your review from my previous post: Nope.

....

Nothing personal about them.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you, although I don't understand this.

Then you need to review your history. Bill Ayers was a terrorist and so was his wife. Bill Ayers is an admitted murderer. He was listed as an enemy of the USA, thus of our Constitution.

Those are facts. Unfortunately, facts are sometimes not fun.

.... If it were just an expression of opinion about a former 1960s radical, you might mention it in passing ONCE. But you go on and on and on and on, repeating the same thing over and over and over and over . . . and you do this whenever his name comes up. You did the same thing on the USPoliticsOnLine board during the flap over Ayers in 2008.

This is obsession. And I don't understand why you are so obsessed.

....

If stating facts is an obsession, then yes, I am obsessed.

....

In any case, you still haven't answered my question. If Ayers supports this cause, as he supports many other progressive causes, in what way does that say anything about OWS except that it IS a progressive cause?

It says that Bill Ayers, a terrorist pig and piece of shit, an admitted murderer, and an enemy of the USA, is a supporter of OWS.

Folks need facts in order to make informed decisions.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I probably will get flamed for this, but I am begging everyone of this board to at least consider the merits of OWS (Occupy Wall Street). What we have seen for quite some time now is the purposeful division of our society along very few issues. (Gun control, gay marriage, abortion, etc.) At the same time, we have seen the Treasury gutted, our Civil Liberties curtailed, and the normalization of a permanent state of war.

It doesn't matter which vetted politician is in charge, (Obama, Bush, Clinton) we get tossed to the side all the same. Both Bush and Obama bailed out the banks. Obama continues to throw the Bill of Rights out the window.

I am sure everyone knows that the laundry list of problems looks endless, but we must recognize that a many faced monster turns us against each other while reaching into our pocketbooks. These few that attempt to steer hatred of our fellow citizens into our lives have no political agenda, they are only concerned about their own gain, and they win every time a liberal calls a conservative a fascist or a tea bagger, or a conservative calls a liberal a hippie or a commie. These people that we are dealing with at the top are political chameleons who have no interest in the survival of the nation, only the endurance of their egos and pride.

Long live the Republic.

Occupy Wall Street | NYC Protest for American Revolution

OK,

I agree they have merit. Hey, wHat can I say, I am a 99%er

They are not the 99%. And if you support them - nor are you.

In overly simplistic terms the Democrats, as a political organization, have needed a kick in the pants same as the Republican machine has for more than the last 3 decades.

The fact that the Republican admonishment came first and in the form of a TEA party, complete with blue-haired church groupies, and the Democratic correction is a couple years late and in the form of a street party, complete with college students and the unemployed smoking weed and getting laid doesn't surprise me. Should it?

 

[AVG-JOE]

OK,

I agree they have merit. Hey, wHat can I say, I am a 99%er

They are not the 99%. And if you support them - nor are you.

In overly simplistic terms the Democrats, as a political organization, have needed a kick in the pants same as the Republican machine has for more than the last 3 decades.

The fact that the Republican admonishment came first and in the form of a TEA party, complete with blue-haired church groupies, and the Democratic correction is a couple years late and in the form of a street party, complete with college students and the unemployed smoking weed and getting laid doesn't surprise me. Should it?

It'll be the moderates and grown-ups of both ideologies that work things out going forward, into the future.

 

[AVG-JOE]

They are not the 99%. And if you support them - nor are you.

In overly simplistic terms the Democrats, as a political organization, have needed a kick in the pants same as the Republican machine has for more than the last 3 decades.

The fact that the Republican admonishment came first and in the form of a TEA party, complete with blue-haired church groupies, and the Democratic correction is a couple years late and in the form of a street party complete with college students and the unemployed smoking weed and getting laid doesn't surprise me. Should it?

It'll be the moderates and grown-ups of both ideologies that work things out going forward, into the future.

Just as soon as we give our kids fair taxes and a budget balanced by law.

 

[flacaltenn]

Bill Ayers:::

Too bad we didn't have an anonymous "shoot to kill" panel authorized back then. A $10Mill missile strike could have gotten 2 "enemies of the state" for the price of 1....

Glad we're making progress.....

 

[Si modo]

Bill Ayers:::

Too bad we didn't have an anonymous "shoot to kill" panel authorized back then. A $10Mill missile strike could have gotten 2 "enemies of the state" for the price of 1....

Glad we're making progress.....

Exactly. Send in the drones. Hey, Ayers is still a citizen, and he actually has admitted to murder.

He's an all-around piece of shit and terrorist. He hates the USA.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Just tell us what you plan to replace capitalism with.

You've asked that before and in a couple different threads now.

Who said anything about replacing capitalism?

The protestors.

How often does the squeaky wheel sing a proper diagnosis of the problem?

Exactly what the demands of the first group to sign up the url 'Occupy Wall Street' are is irrelevant compared with the number of Americans suddenly willing to get off their chanel-surfing backsides and go down-town with poster-board and a fat marker.

 

[Dragon]

So you skipped all the meaty stuff about how world wide redistribution of economic power and wealth is a proximate cause to all this.

Well, I wanted to address the core subject which involved tactics of OWS. If you want to get into an economics discussion, I disagree with you. There is no "worldwide redistribution of economic power and wealth" as that phrase is normally used, no transfer of wealth from the rich nations to the poor ones. Rather, there is a transfer of wealth from most of the people living in rich nations, mostly to the very richest people living in such nations. It could be argued successfully that all of the increased wealth in third-world countries arises from wealth produced in those countries, and is not a transfer.

And you DON'T do any of that useful stuff because you mistakenly believe that corporations are ALL to blame for Govt/Corp collusion

That's a terribly simplistic statement and not true at all. The problem is excessive influence of corporations on the government, so that a distinction drawn between them becomes almost meaningless. It's not a question of targeting business or targeting the government, rather, it's a matter of targeting the collusion between them. Government should be regulating business, not serving its narrow interests. It isn't doing that because of the influence of campaign financing and lobbyists.

The Power and Money would STILL go out without political contributions. We KNOW THAT FOR A FACT. Because that's how business got conducted even in Communist countries with a ONE party monopoly.

You can't make simple comparisons between countries with such radically different systems, but I will say that the failure of socialism in the Soviet Union came about because they tried to have socialism without democracy, just as the failure of democracy in the U.S. has come about because we've tried to have democracy without socialism. Democracy, an egalitarian political philosophy, is political socialism. Socialism, an egalitarian economic philosophy, is economic democracy. They have to work together.

In the Soviet Union, the system was supposed to make a worker's paradise, with a more or less equal standard of living and prosperity for all. But because they had no democracy, political power concentrated in the hands of a privileged elite (the Communist Party), and this oligarchy served its own needs at the expense of the people. So you got Communist bigwigs living luxurious lifestyles and pouring money into a huge military force to aggrandize their power, while the people's living standards stagnated and declined. Lack of democracy corrupted the socialist ideals the country was founded on.

In the U.S., we have a mirror-image problem. We are supposed to be a democracy "with liberty and justice for all," but because we allow/encourage too much wealth to concentrate in too few hands, and wealth translates into political power, the government serves at the beck and call of the corporate interests rather than answering to the will of the people. Lack of socialism (note that I'm defining socialism by ends rather than means; I don't mean lack of government ownership of the means of production but rather lack of economic equality, regardless of what method is used to bring that about) has undermined our democracy, just as lack of democracy undermined Soviet socialism. I really don't think you can have either one of those successfully without the other.

Does "work for the people" imply MORE POWER to be doled out?

Not really, just a change of direction. The government MUST set policies in regard to enforcement of labor law, trade agreements, tax policy, and other things affecting the economy, the price of labor, and the distribution of wealth. It doesn't have to do these things any MORE than it does now in order to change our circumstances. It just needs to do them differently.

 

[flacaltenn]

Bill Ayers:::

Too bad we didn't have an anonymous "shoot to kill" panel authorized back then. A $10Mill missile strike could have gotten 2 "enemies of the state" for the price of 1....

Glad we're making progress.....

Exactly. Send in the drones. Hey, Ayers is still a citizen, and he actually has admitted to murder.

He's an all-around piece of shit and terrorist. He hates the USA.

Don't go getting all horny about this.. We gotta wait til he goes to Yemen or Libya or someplace relatively lawless before we can (in the words of Ravi) "put a missile up his ass". Or at least to the Nevada desert.

Or do we....????????