Was Ukraine a threat to Russia before start of Russian military operation?

[Dissident]

gipper and alexa

For what reason do you quote posts of Oldestyle and answer to them?

It’s obvious that this person constantly lies.

When I caught him lying (e.g. here), he presented his next lie (e.g.here), and so on.

It has really no sense to discuss anything with such a person.

 

[Oldestyle]

I understand that the reason why Russia has not been issuing and using good weapons is because sanctions have stopped her being able to get material to repair them or get new ones,

Do you really think that Russia has run out of "good weapons" in this short amount of time, Alexa? Or do you think that just might be an excuse that Putin supporters have fallen back on to somehow explain why the Russian military won't fight for Putin?
Are they running low on their Cruise missiles and other long range artillery shells? Probably but that's because they've been getting their asses kicked when they fight the Ukrainians at close range. They're running low on those long range weapons because they've been forced to try and pound Ukraine from afar and make them surrender. It's a strategy that isn't working.

 

[gipper]

How did the US "destroy" Europe's natural gas, Alexa? With all due respect, Europe made the choice to put their natural gas "eggs" in Russia's "basket"! They were warned by Trump that was the wrong decision but did so anyways. Now Putin has the economic power to hurt Europe and he's employing that power. The simple truth is that you're not even close to being self sufficient with "green energy" and your leaders SHOULD have known they were putting themselves at risk!

So you think the US should control Europe’s energy needs.

You must admit to being an imperialist.

 

[gipper]

You don't have to be a genius to figure out that the Russians are taking huge losses in Ukraine, Gipper! They've made that rather obvious when they're forced to call up 300,000 conscripts. Duh?

HUGE LOSSES. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. What a dupe.

We have no way of knowing the truth of what is happening on the battlefield.

We do know the western media lies though…well maybe you dont, but informed people do.

 

[gipper]

gipper and alexa

For what reason do you quote posts of Oldestyle and answer to them?

It’s obvious that this person constantly lies.

When I caught him lying (e.g. here), he presented his next lie (e.g.here), and so on.

It has really no sense to discuss anything with such a person.

Agreed. Not only does he lie often, but he’s obviously completely uninformed.

 

[alexa]

Do you really think that Russia has run out of "good weapons" in this short amount of time, Alexa?

I was listening to something on Youtube which suggested this and rightwinger wrote something in a thread which suggested this so I asked and they confirmed that the sanctions had stopped Russia from being able to perform.

Now if you go back to my original post I said that was one possibility and I wanted to know what people thought would happen to Russia if she had to give up on Ukraine and wasn't able to protect Russia. Ukraine refuses all peace talks . However the other thing I thought was a possibility was that Russia had not as yet shown her good weapons. If she has them then I suspect we have not yet seen Russia fighting.

Or do you think that just might be an excuse that Putin supporters have fallen back on to somehow explain why the Russian military won't fight for Putin?

No they all denied it.

Are they running low on their Cruise missiles and other long range artillery shells? Probably but that's because they've been getting their asses kicked when they fight the Ukrainians at close range. They're running low on those long range weapons because they've been forced to try and pound Ukraine from afar and make them surrender. It's a strategy that isn't working.

According to what I heard they only have 20,000 Iranian drones. This idea though isn't new. Everyone is going on about Russia having no decent weapons. I just wanted to see where people thought on this one. I also wanted to know for my own thinking. If Russia does not have a major problem with weapons then we haven't seen Russia fighting yet. Ukraine should negotiate.

 

[AntonToo]

It's what I hear and if Europe's Gas was destroyed by the US I would think likely. You cannot make allies with someone who will hit you when you are down and then sell you what they have taken by something 4 times the cost on which they are making massive profits. You just do not do to allies what the US may have done.
There appears to be a lot of talk in Europe about its success being linked to Russia.
There is a talk that Germany at least is finished.

Now I told you it was not impossible that Europewould be integrated with China and Russia in the future and you are asking me for a date. Who would give a date for something which may or may not happen but
without energy at a decent price Europe will have to deindustrialise. People are saying it will be like 3rd world land. Do you really think they would choose that if they had an alternative. This would be to Putin's liking. He went with Dugin's plan which was to take all of Europe except the UK and to give Germany and France special powers within. Who knows.

Alternatively Europe will have sufficient green energy and be able to be independent of both yourselves and Russia.

Russia and China have their money now on the Gold Standard and will announce moving away from the dollar soon. The US days are over. I

These things may make sense to you, but to me they read like ignorant stream of mind ramblings.

Just cut the shit and make a TESTABLE PREDICTION, which will show you and me how connected to reality whats going on in your head is.

By 2025 "it all falls apart for the west" - yes or no?

 

[alexa]

These things may make sense to you, but to me they read like ignorant stream of mind ramblings.

[/QUOTE]

I get that you must know nothing about this as with other things. No surprise there but you should learn to look in the mirror.

Just cut the shit and make a TESTABLE PREDICTION, which will show you and me how connected to reality whats going on in your head is.

By 2025 "it all falls apart for the west" - yes or no?

You do not control me. I said possibility not definite. You need to learn to read.

 

[Oldestyle]

So you think the US should control Europe’s energy needs.

You must admit to being an imperialist.

I think Europe had a choice between relying on the US for its natural gas or relying on Vladimir Putin for its natural gas. They chose Putin. So how is that working out for them? Duh?

 

[AntonToo]

It depends on what you personally understand under a “Nazi”.

If, in your opinion, a Nazi is a person who has a swastika tattoo on his forehead, I must admit that I personally have not seen persons with such tattoos in Ukrainian government or Ukrainian parliament.

But I haven’t seen persons with such tattoos in government of Nazi Germany too.

But if we understand under Nazis persons who - through legislation – divide ethnic minorities of their country in first-grade people, second-grade people and third-grade, the majority of Ukrainian parliament are Nazis in this case (please see Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones?)

And in this case, the Ukrainian President Zelensky - whose Jewish origin has constantly been repeated in this thread - is a Nazi too. Since he, for example, signed Ukrainian Law on Secondary Education in 2020 and this Law divides Ukrainian ethnic minorities in the above-mentioned way.

Is that what Nazis were known for? Mandating use of national language in education and other public institutions? Is this some sort of a fucking joke?

Nazis are AN ULTRA-NATIONALIST TOTALITARIAN REGIME LED BY A CHARISMATIC LEADER THAT INVADES OTHER COUNTRIES because they belive themselves to be superior people with superior culture, who's destiny is to either rule or exterminate other peoples. This ideology is maintained by a hardcore nationalist propaganda machine and brutal supression of any sort of opposition.

Who in this conflict are most Nazi-like? Russians under Putin's regime of course.

Putin is a repressive autocrat who kills or jails any real political opposition, who has shut down any sembalance of freedom of speech and media, who rejects there is any such thing as a Ukranian state and belives it to be Russian property to be reclaimed by a brutal invasion.

 

[Oldestyle]

I was listening to something on Youtube which suggested this and rightwinger wrote something in a thread which suggested this so I asked and they confirmed that the sanctions had stopped Russia from being able to perform.

Now if you go back to my original post I said that was one possibility and I wanted to know what people thought would happen to Russia if she had to give up on Ukraine and wasn't able to protect Russia. Ukraine refuses all peace talks . However the other thing I thought was a possibility was that Russia had not as yet shown her good weapons. If she has them then I suspect we have not yet seen Russia fighting.



No they all denied it.


According to what I heard they only have 20,000 Iranian drones. This idea though isn't new. Everyone is going on about Russia having no decent weapons. I just wanted to see where people thought on this one. I also wanted to know for my own thinking. If Russia does not have a major problem with weapons then we haven't seen Russia fighting yet. Ukraine should negotiate.

Did you just say you relied on something Winger posted, Alexa? With all due respect...WHY? In case you haven't figured it out...Winger posts just to post posts! He loves the fact that he's posted more than anyone else on the board. HE LIVES FOR THAT! Never mind that he hasn't posted an intelligent thought in years...HE'S NUMBER ONE!!!

As for your question about who would attack Russia? In my opinion Putin has never been worried about Russia being attacked...his concern is losing further control over the former Soviet satellite nations that he covets. Ukraine is simply one on a list of former Soviet "republics" that Putin has designs on! If Ukraine goes...it's just a matter of time before Georgia and Chechnya go. If the Russian military won't fight for Putin in Ukraine...do you think they'll be willing to fight in Chechnya? I guarantee you that leaders throughout that region are reassessing their relationship with Russia.

 

[AntonToo]

I get that you must know nothing about this as with other things. No surprise there but you should learn to look in the mirror.

You do not control me. I said possibility not definite. You need to learn to read.

See thats what I thought.

 

[Oldestyle]

I was listening to something on Youtube which suggested this and rightwinger wrote something in a thread which suggested this so I asked and they confirmed that the sanctions had stopped Russia from being able to perform.

Now if you go back to my original post I said that was one possibility and I wanted to know what people thought would happen to Russia if she had to give up on Ukraine and wasn't able to protect Russia. Ukraine refuses all peace talks . However the other thing I thought was a possibility was that Russia had not as yet shown her good weapons. If she has them then I suspect we have not yet seen Russia fighting.



No they all denied it.


According to what I heard they only have 20,000 Iranian drones. This idea though isn't new. Everyone is going on about Russia having no decent weapons. I just wanted to see where people thought on this one. I also wanted to know for my own thinking. If Russia does not have a major problem with weapons then we haven't seen Russia fighting yet. Ukraine should negotiate.

You don't really understand warfare, Alexa. You can invade a country and take wide swaths of land but if your ground troops aren't willing to go street to street in big cities and dislodge dug in and determined defenders then you can't subdue the country you've invaded. Hitler invaded Russia and ROLLED through miles of Russian territory! He couldn't make Russia surrender though because he couldn't take cities like Stalingrad. Taking cities is the dirty part of waging war. If your troops don't want to be there and are just trying to survive the war? They aren't going to beat a cornered patriot that is willing to die to defend his nation!

 

[gipper]

I think Europe had a choice between relying on the US for its natural gas or relying on Vladimir Putin for its natural gas. They chose Putin. So how is that working out for them? Duh?

What?

 

[Oldestyle]

What?

Do you really not understand the question?
Or do you not have an intelligent reply to it?

 

[gipper]

Do you really not understand the question?
Or do you not have an intelligent reply to it?

I don’t think we can communicate. You know so little that it’s impossible.

 

[Oldestyle]

I don’t think we can communicate. You know so little that it’s impossible.

"I think Europe had a choice between relying on the US for its natural gas or relying on Vladimir Putin for its natural gas. They chose Putin. So how is that working out for them?"

That was my question to you, Gipper. What's so hard to grasp?
I don't think we can "communicate" because you're struggling to come up with a response to a rather straight forward question.

 

[alexa]

Did you just say you relied on something Winger posted, Alexa? With all due respect...WHY? In case you haven't figured it out...Winger posts just to post posts! He loves the fact that he's posted more than anyone else on the board. HE LIVES FOR THAT! Never mind that he hasn't posted an intelligent thought in years...HE'S NUMBER ONE!!!

As for your question about who would attack Russia? In my opinion Putin has never been worried about Russia being attacked...his concern is losing further control over the former Soviet satellite nations that he covets. Ukraine is simply one on a list of former Soviet "republics" that Putin has designs on! If Ukraine goes...it's just a matter of time before Georgia and Chechnya go. If the Russian military won't fight for Putin in Ukraine...do you think they'll be willing to fight in Chechnya? I guarantee you that leaders throughout that region are reassessing their relationship with Russia.

Are you sure. A lot of what he says sounds very good. I agree with a fair bit of what he says. He was also supported by someone else. They were both laying out the sort of things he would need bits of from abroad and the sort of no good things they could manage with the sanctions. I do remember a Polish man on a forum I was on being scared Russia would come and take them back. That was years ago. I am really not bothered what Putin is like. That is not my business and I have no contact with him but on the reason for the war I disagree with you. Why would Russia have given them their freedom as Sovereign States if that was not the intent - of course under a different person than Putin and I am aware he says the end of the soviet Era was the worst thing that ever happened.
Thig is we do know that the US promised Gorbachev that there would be no enlargement of NATO beyond Germany if they allowed Germany to Unify. There are records of this. The US gave up on this promise pretty much immediately. Russia was warning the US from time to time that they had promised not to take these states into NATO. I saw a newspaper article from 2008 where Lavrov was complaining about the US saying Georgia and Ukraine would soon be in NATO. He said if they went that far Russia would have to intervene. Russia is pretty much surrounded with NATO states. I can see them being not too happy. What was the US doing telling Ukrainians who they should have in what position Politically. At this time the US was helping them to oust a President. The US should not be involved in doing that in any country apart from the US. During the next 8 years they were busy training them how to use British and US military equipment. Ukraine had been getting trained in this almost from when she got her Independence. She had fought in Iraq and I think Afghanistan along with NATO troops.

To me the argument that it was the US going against its promise not to bring in countries further east to Germany into NATO is the better one. That the US wanted to can be seen by their contact with Ukraine from the beginning. Likewise Moscow reminding them goes on all the way through. and so I do not agree with what you believe. It is nothing to do with anything else except not wanting the US to fight Russia and bring us to Nuclear war. I worry that they have decided to destroy Russia just to get rid of a Rival. I do not consider all Putin's murmurings to be the reason. Indeed I see them as being his wrong position he presented to his people as the reason for war, probably making them think of the Ukrainians as brothers more than they did before.

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[alexa]

You don't really understand warfare, Alexa. You can invade a country and take wide swaths of land but if your ground troops aren't willing to go street to street in big cities and dislodge dug in and determined defenders then you can't subdue the country you've invaded. Hitler invaded Russia and ROLLED through miles of Russian territory! He couldn't make Russia surrender though because he couldn't take cities like Stalingrad. Taking cities is the dirty part of waging war. If your troops don't want to be there and are just trying to survive the war? They aren't going to beat a cornered patriot that is willing to die to defend his nation!

I am not sure what I said that made you think it matters whether I understand war. However it is clear that Putin did not want that for Ukraine. War should only be fought when there is no alternative and the US has no legal right to be involved here. How much is even the desire of the people of Ukraine and how much the US I do not know. Rumour says you with Boris stopped an acceptable agreement between Zelensky and Putin , . I hear Azov refused to stop fighting when asked by Zelensky - I actually saw that on video. The sort of fighting you are talking about is simply kill the other or you are killed. It has nothing to do with what you think about them.

 

[Oldestyle]

I am not sure what I said that made you think it matters whether I understood war. However it is clear that Putin did not want that for Ukraine. War should only be fought when there is no alternative and the US has no legal right to be involved here. How much is even the desire of the people of Ukraine and how much the US I do not know. Rumour says you with Boris stopped an acceptable agreement to end fighting, agreed between Zelensky and Putin. I hear Azov refused to stop fighting when asked by Zelensky - I actually saw that on video. The sort of fighting you are talking about is simply kill the other or you are killed. It has nothing to do with what you think about them.

The US has no control over any agreements between Zelensky and Putin. There was supposedly an offer from the Russians to stop attacking if they were given the Donbas region but Zelensky wasn't going to give up more Ukrainian territory after already having Russia seize Crimea by force.
You do realize, Alexa that both sides are using platforms like You Tube to foment propaganda...right? To be honest with you I'd take anything you see there with a grain of salt.