Zone1 Was Eve expelled from Eden, or did she leave with Adam?

[Hafar1014]

According to you, Orthodox Jews are misogynists, right?

Orthodox Judaism faces criticism regarding misogyny due to strict patriarchal structures, gender segregation (mechitza), and laws limiting women's public roles, such as exclusion from leading prayer or serving as rabbis. Critics point to modesty rules (tzniut) and gender separation in public spaces as tools of oppression, though some proponents argue these are distinct, equally valued roles rather than sexist inequality.
The Forward +5
Key issues regarding Orthodoxy and gender include:

• Public Sphere Exclusion: Women are often removed from public imagery in ultra-Orthodox communities, and in some, women are expected to sit at the back of buses.
• Marriage and Divorce Law: Under Rabbinical court control, women can become agunot ("chained women"), unable to remarry if their husbands refuse to grant a religious divorce (get).
• Modesty Requirements: Strict dress codes and segregation rules, such as separating seating in synagogues, are described by critics as perpetuating inequality.
• Internal Debates: While some see traditional roles as inherently discriminatory, others within the community argue that Orthodox Judaism provides, or is evolving to provide, spiritual fulfillment and empowerment for women, distinguishing between religious obligations and sexism.
  Reddit +6

Opinions on the degree of misogyny within the community

 

[Hafar1014]

Why does Judaism teach that God will judge them? What is the purpose of said judgement?

Judaism teaches that God is a righteous judge who judges individuals based on their actions, obedience to commandments and treatment of others.

Judaism reaches to judge ourselves. Christianity judges others in the name of God but its really in the name of their distorteted beliefs

 

[ding]

Orthodox Judaism faces criticism regarding misogyny due to strict patriarchal structures, gender segregation (mechitza), and laws limiting women's public roles, such as exclusion from leading prayer or serving as rabbis. Critics point to modesty rules (tzniut) and gender separation in public spaces as tools of oppression, though some proponents argue these are distinct, equally valued roles rather than sexist inequality.
The Forward +5
Key issues regarding Orthodoxy and gender include:

• Public Sphere Exclusion: Women are often removed from public imagery in ultra-Orthodox communities, and in some, women are expected to sit at the back of buses.
• Marriage and Divorce Law: Under Rabbinical court control, women can become agunot ("chained women"), unable to remarry if their husbands refuse to grant a religious divorce (get).
• Modesty Requirements: Strict dress codes and segregation rules, such as separating seating in synagogues, are described by critics as perpetuating inequality.
• Internal Debates: While some see traditional roles as inherently discriminatory, others within the community argue that Orthodox Judaism provides, or is evolving to provide, spiritual fulfillment and empowerment for women, distinguishing between religious obligations and sexism.
  Reddit +6

Opinions on the degree of misogyny within the community

I'm not seeing the connection from "Orthodox Judaism faces criticism regarding misogyny" to Orthodox Jews are misogynists. It seems you want to demonize Orthodox Jews because you don't agree with their religious practices.

 

[ding]

Judaism reaches to judge ourselves.

So Judaism does not teach that God will judge you? What is the purpose of following rules if there are no consequences?

 

[rylah]

I don't. It's self evident that people will make mistakes. It's self evident that if everyone were voluntarily accountable for their mistakes the world would change overnight.

No so when accusing Eve for that very choice,
and calling accountability "the fall of man".

Completely the opposite.

 

[BothWings]

I cant believe you actually got something correct. Its an allegory that contradicts the Christian interpretation. Soimply put Eden is childhood and man outgrows it and leaves it behind.

With moral awareness came moral responsibility.

 

[ding]

No so when accusing Eve for that very choice,
and calling accountability "the fall of man".

It wasn't her choice. It was her answer to God when asked if she ate from the tree.

 

[ding]

With moral awareness came moral responsibility.

And if there are no consequences, what is the point of being responsible?

 

[Hafar1014]

With moral awareness came moral responsibility.

And then freedom to create civilization

 

[rylah]

It wasn't her choice. It was her answer to God when asked if she ate from the tree.

She didn't choose to eat from the fruit?

In fact she's the first creature to choose anything.

 

[ding]

I cant believe you actually got something correct. Its an allegory that contradicts the Christian interpretation. Soimply put Eden is childhood and man outgrows it and leaves it behind.

Or man is born with an inclination for evil which is a Jewish belief. Way to make God look like a dick.

 

[Hafar1014]

So Judaism does not teach that God will judge you? What is the purpose of following rules if there are no consequences?

You need some education in child development. Even some of my own published work. Punishment creates damaged children, punitive parenting also creates anger and defensiveness. You clearly. the product of that kind of dysfunctional parenting. You believe h9inans are inherently bad and need to be punished to be good. That creates damaged people and you likely a perfect example. Do unto others as was done to you even if its damaging

 

[BothWings]

And then freedom to create civilization

And freedom to learn from the Karma created in doing so. Humans still endeavor to build mighty empires, only to see them crumble in the end. The price is not always swift and immediate.

 

[ding]

She didn't choose to eat from the fruit?

Actually she's the first creature to choose anything.

She did what she did and when God asked her if she did it she said the serpent deceived her.

Today we call that an external locus of control. Which is transferring one's control to an external source. It's not her fault. The serpent deceived her. Blaming others and failing to take accountability is the number one problem in the world.

 

[ding]

And freedom to learn from the Karma created in doing so. Humans still endeavor to build mighty empires, only to see them crumble in the end. The price is not always swift and immediate.

The poster you are responding to doesn't believe in consequences.

 

[Hafar1014]

And freedom to learn from the Karma created in doing so. Humans still endeavor to build mighty empires, only to see them crumble in the end. The price is not always swift and immediate.

Evolution we learn and grow except for socialists and communists who repeat the same dumb mistakes

 

[ding]

You need some education in child development. Even some of my own published work. Punishment creates damaged children, punitive parenting also creates anger and defensiveness. You clearly. the product of that kind of dysfunctional parenting. You believe h9inans are inherently bad and need to be punished to be good. That creates damaged people and you likely a perfect example. Do unto others as was done to you even if its damaging

What I need is for you to stop being evasive and answer the question. If there are no consequences to following the commandments what is the purpose of having commandments in the first place?

 

[ding]

Evolution we learn and grow except for socialists and communists who repeat the same dumb mistakes

Only if there are consequences. But according to you, there are no consequences. You can do anything you want.

 

[Hafar1014]

What I need is for you to stop being evasive and answer the question. If there are no consequences to following the commandments what is the purpose of having commandments in the first place?

They are model for us to control our behavior. Freedom is the state of nature for humanity. You believe in cruel punitive authority. Thats not religion you were raised by poor parents.

 

[Hafar1014]

Only if there are consequences. But according to you, there are no consequences. You can do anything you want.

I never said that. We arent talking about crimes. We have moral values. Yours ate damaged by poor parenting. You believe humans are inherently bad and must be controlled. We have the ability top control ourselves. You believe in imposing an authority that you believe in on humanity. Thats not God thats your damaged personality caused by your parents.