Zone1 Was Eve expelled from Eden, or did she leave with Adam?

[ding]

They are model for us to control our behavior. Freedom is the state of nature for humanity. You believe in cruel punitive authority. Thats not religion you were raised by poor parents.

So what? There are no consequences. Jews claim God gave them laws to follow that have no consequences. Is that how Moses taught it? Hey, here are some laws our God gave us but it's ok if you shit all over them because God won't do anything about it. He's going to judge us but that judgment won't result in any punishment. Feel free to do whatever you want.

That's some brilliant theology right there.

 

[ding]

I never said that. We arent talking about crimes. We have moral values. Yours ate damaged by poor parenting. You believe humans are inherently bad and must be controlled. We have the ability top control ourselves. You believe in imposing an authority that you believe in on humanity. Thats not God thats your damaged personality caused by your parents.

Great theology you have there. Do whatever you want. God won't do anything about it.

 

[ding]

Quiet the opposite - the number one problem is lack of gratitude,

and that includes dogmatic little men accusing Eve -

for the very opportunity to be righteous.

I'd rather someone not be grateful than to deny that they did wrong when they did wrong. And note, it was ADAM that first denied his accountability, not Eve.

 

[rylah]

I'd rather someone not be grateful than to deny that they did wrong when they did wrong.

Perhaps God should've followed your dogma
when creating His world and us.

Who called it "wrong"?

 

[ding]

Perhaps God should've followed your dogma

when creating the world.

I'm pretty sure God was aware that man would know right from wrong and when he violated it rather than abandoning the concept he would rationalize he didn't violate it.

It's literally the point of that account.

 

[ding]

You must believe you are superior to humanity to impose an authoritarian believe system based on threats and punishment. Your have a damaged personality and are reenacting your parents abuse.
Aside from crimes we have the ability to judge and modify our own behavior with some know it all like you who believes in a primitive authoritarian God juding and punishing. Thats your personality not gods not religion.

I believe your theology that God gave man commandments and will judge man but not do anything about it is illogical.

 

[Hafar1014]

Great theology you have there. Do whatever you want. God won't do anything about it.

I Never said that but I understand why you think every person needs to be controlled by a primitive belief system.
Humans are inherently evil. They must be controlled by threats and punishment. Your parents damaged you and you will damage your children. Your beliefs are against the nature of humanity which is freedom.

These are Christians who unsestand humaniuty
The state of nature is a philosophical concept in political theory describing the hypothetical, pre-social condition of humanity without government, law, or sovereignty. It serves as a foundation for social contract theories, utilized by Hobbes (chaotic "war"), Locke (inconvenient freedom), and Rousseau ("noble savage") to justify the creation of political authority.
Britannica +5
Key Interpretations & Philosophers


Thomas Hobbes (Leviathan): A state of "war of all against all," where life is "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short," driven by competition, fear, and lack of security.
Université Saint-Joseph de Beyrouth +2

John Locke (Two Treatises): A state of perfect freedom governed by natural law (reason), where individuals possess natural rights (life, liberty, property) but face "inconvenience" due to the lack of an impartial judge.

planksip +1

Jean-Jacques Rousseau: Pre-socialization humans are solitary, peaceful, compassionate ("noble savages"), and guided by self-preservation and pity, with corruption arising only through society.

planksip

Mozi: An early Eastern perspective where natural disorganization and lack of a central ruler lead to wasted resources and moral confusion.

Wikipedia
Purpose and Limitations

• Purpose: To explain the rational basis for forming organized society and government (social contract), determining the legitimacy of state authority.
• Limitations: Critiqued for its lack of historical accuracy, as empirical anthropology suggests early humans were cooperative, and for presenting potentially ethnocentric views of "human nature".
  
  
  planksip +4

Benefits of the State of Nature

• Total Liberty: Without laws, humans possess absolute freedom.
• Equality: In the Hobbesian view, no individual is so strong they cannot be killed by another, creating an equalizing fear.
  
  
  1000-Word Philosophy +2

While a philosophical thought experiment, the concept remains relevant in analyzing international relations (anarchical states) and the fundamental reasons for creating social order.

planksip

 

[Hafar1014]

I believe your theology that God gave man commandments and will judge man but not do anything about it is illogical.

You had an abusive father didnt you

 

[Hafar1014]

I'm pretty sure God was aware that man would know right from wrong and when he violated it rather than abandoning the concept he would rationalize he didn't violate it.

It's literally the point of that account.

Before Adam ate the fruit he had no knowledge of right and wrong.

 

[ding]

I Never said that but I understand why you think every person needs to be controlled by a primitive belief system.
Humans are inherently evil. They must be controlled by threats and punishment. Your parents damaged you and you will damage your children. Your beliefs are against the nature of humanity which is freedom.

These are Christians who unsestand humaniuty
The state of nature is a philosophical concept in political theory describing the hypothetical, pre-social condition of humanity without government, law, or sovereignty. It serves as a foundation for social contract theories, utilized by Hobbes (chaotic "war"), Locke (inconvenient freedom), and Rousseau ("noble savage") to justify the creation of political authority.
Britannica +5
Key Interpretations & Philosophers


Thomas Hobbes (Leviathan): A state of "war of all against all," where life is "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short," driven by competition, fear, and lack of security.
Université Saint-Joseph de Beyrouth +2

John Locke (Two Treatises): A state of perfect freedom governed by natural law (reason), where individuals possess natural rights (life, liberty, property) but face "inconvenience" due to the lack of an impartial judge.

planksip +1

Jean-Jacques Rousseau: Pre-socialization humans are solitary, peaceful, compassionate ("noble savages"), and guided by self-preservation and pity, with corruption arising only through society.

planksip

Mozi: An early Eastern perspective where natural disorganization and lack of a central ruler lead to wasted resources and moral confusion.

Wikipedia
Purpose and Limitations

• Purpose: To explain the rational basis for forming organized society and government (social contract), determining the legitimacy of state authority.
• Limitations: Critiqued for its lack of historical accuracy, as empirical anthropology suggests early humans were cooperative, and for presenting potentially ethnocentric views of "human nature".
  
  
  planksip +4

Benefits of the State of Nature

• Total Liberty: Without laws, humans possess absolute freedom.
• Equality: In the Hobbesian view, no individual is so strong they cannot be killed by another, creating an equalizing fear.
  
  
  1000-Word Philosophy +2

While a philosophical thought experiment, the concept remains relevant in analyzing international relations (anarchical states) and the fundamental reasons for creating social order.

planksip

Great theology you have there. Do whatever you want. God won't do anything about it.

 

[Hafar1014]

Great theology you have there. Do whatever you want. God won't do anything about it.

I control my behavior not god or some religious fanatic like you who was damaged by poor parenting

 

[rylah]

I'm pretty sure God was aware that man would know right from wrong and when he violated it rather than abandoning the concept he would rationalize he didn't violate it.

It's literally the point of that account.

And what was the prerequisite to knowing right from wrong?

See, you claim God knew, but then you blame Eve
for something God didn't call "wrong".

Little men can't bear to thank Eve.

 

[ding]

You had an abusive father didnt you

No. He was a war hero. You should be ashamed of yourself. Of course you're just following your illogical theology of behaving anyway you want because there are no consequences.

 

[ding]

I control my behavior not god or some religious fanatic like you who was damaged by poor parenting

You are doing a very poor job of it. But then again, you don't believe there are any consequences to your poor behaviors.

 

[rylah]

The story of Adam & Eve in the Bible

​

 

[ding]

And what was the prerequisite to knowing right from wrong?

We are born with that ability. When they heard God coming, they hid. They knew they had done wrong.

See, you claim God knew, but then you blame Eve

I don't blame anyone. I'm stating what happened. It's literally an account that teaches we know right from wrong and when we violate it we rationalize we didn't.

for something God didn't call "wrong".

Little men can't bear to thank Eve.

God lowered the boom after they failed to take accountability, not before.

 

[ding]

The story of Adam & Eve in the Bible

​

Do you believe that when you die that you will be judged by God? If so, what is the point of the judgement?

 

[ding]

Before Adam ate the fruit he had no knowledge of right and wrong.

Sure he did. What's YOUR excuse?

 

[rylah]

Do you believe that when you die that you will be judged by God? If so, what is the point of the judgement?

Personal belief is irrelevant.

Stop derailing the thread.

 

[rylah]

We are born with that ability. When they heard God coming, they hid. They knew they had done wrong.

I don't blame anyone. I'm stating what happened. It's literally an account that teaches we know right from wrong and when we violate it we rationalize we didn't.

God lowered the boom after they failed to take accountability, not before.

You've got everything upside down.

Neither Adam, nor you were born with that ability.
For humanity to have that potential, Eve ate from the fruit,
after God already told them they'd eat, so how is it "failure"?