Zone1 Was Eve expelled from Eden, or did she leave with Adam?

[rylah]

Almost everything we know is accepted on authority of others. Anyone who would scoff at gaining knowledge on authority of others would have to go through life knowing next to nothing.

Your belief that it wasn't "fruit" that was eaten is illogical, not supported by the totality of scripture, taken out of context and meaningless. You are arguing about something that doesn't matter. Whether it was fruit, seed, bark, leaves or root doesn't change a thing. It's unimportant and a distraction from the point of the account. These are symbols, metaphors, allegory. It's not important what item is used to represent man's disobedience to God. The point is that man disobeyed God.

Appealing to authority names, is not the same as argument.
And personal belief is irrelevant to the discussion of text.

The distinction is in the text, and consistent throughout chapter 3.
Rejecting it as illogical, or inconsequential doesn't solve the question.

The implications of the question are largely moral and practical,
as well as religious/theological and political at the same time.

Is the difference between slandering Eve,
and praising her for fulfilling God's will,
meaningless?

Ask your wife.

 

[ding]

Appealing to authority names, is not the same as argument.
And personal belief is irrelevant to the discussion of text.

The distinction is in the text, and consistent throughout chapter 3.
Rejecting it as illogical, or inconsequential doesn't solve the question.

The implications of the question are largely moral and practical,
as well as religious/theological and political at the same time.

Is the difference between slandering Eve,
and praising her for fulfilling God's will,
meaningless?

Ask your wife.

No one is slandering Eve. The distinctions you are trying to make are irrelevant. You can't even get Genesis 1:31 right.

 

[rylah]

Actually it's a direct quote. God looked at everything he had made, and found it very good. Evening came, and morning followed—the sixth day.

Eve hadn't even been mentioned at this point.

Eve is not mentioned at the end of the 6th day?

That explains a lot about your preaching.

 

[hobelim]

People don't need to be made to do naughty things. People do naughty things because of ignorance.

You mean like teaching young children that one God is really three persons and spiritual life is edible before they learn anything about history science biology and literary expressions?

Oh I see! Its ignorance. Who knew!

Thanks!

 

[rosends]

The difference in the fruit has specific practical connotations.

We offer both wheat and ethrog,
and both follow the principle of a fruit,
which tree is supposed to be, or closest to
having the same taste, smell of the fruit as one.

My question is not about which fruit or tree it was,
but whether the distinction in the text to be discarded.
If not, the logical and moral conclusions are explained in the OP.

Here's The Netziv on Genesis 3:12,
discusses if Eve was even commanded:

View attachment 1261987

Eretz Chemdah, Bereshit 41:1 | Sefaria Library

(בראשית ג יב) האשה וגו' ואוכל. במד' אכלתי ואוכל. נ"ל אדם הראשון קודם חטאו מן הנמנע שיאכל ועל זה אמר ויצו ה' אלהים על האדם ולא אל האדם כי הציוי בעצמו עשה לו...

www.sefaria.org.il

that's actually more about what she was commanded (as related by Adam to her) and what she understood it to mean. The comment about Adam's motivation is also interesting.

 

[ding]

Eve is not mentioned at the end of the 6th day?

No wonder you come to preach...

Eve is not mentioned in the first Chapter. This is what happens when people try to bend scripture to their liking.

And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

 

[rylah]

that's actually more about what she was commanded (as related by Adam to her) and what she understood it to mean. The comment about Adam's motivation is also interesting.

More about...

Do you reject all the sages who discuss the distinction?

 

[ding]

No wonder you come to preach...

Given your ignorance someone has to.

 

[rylah]

Eve is not mentioned in the first Chapter. This is what happens when people try to bend scripture to their liking.

And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

We're discussing chapter 3.

Do try to follow.

 

[ding]

You mean like teaching young children that one God is really three persons and spiritual life is edible before they learn anything about history science biology and literary expressions?

Oh I see! Its ignorance. Who knew!

Thanks!

It's much deeper than that but since you work for Satan trying to lead others away from Christ using deception it would be a waste of my time trying to explain it to you.

 

[rosends]

More about...

Do you reject all the sages who discuss the distinction?

No, I have been saying that there is a distinction -- that Adam ate FROM the tree, not "the tree". The question of the identity of the fruit is secondary. He ate a "fruit" not a tree.

 

[ding]

We're discussing chapter 3.

Do try to follow.

I am following. The verse you are claiming refers to Eve is in Chapter 1. Eve isn't mentioned until Chapter 3. The verse you are claiming that refers to Eve being very good is really God looking at everything God created. Your logic is flawed and so is your premise.

Genesis 1:31: And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

 

[hobelim]

I believe that Satan is a spiritual being that God has withdrawn his spirit from and

Oh! Like someone who defies the Divine commands and dies "the death" a curse? Like whatever religious charlatan or flat out scumbag who taught you that the way to eternal life and to avoid the penalty for the sin of idolatry, death, a curse, is by practicing idolatry?

Damn crafty that Satan, that ever elusive talking serpent of old, and all of its descendants.

whom you do his bidding for.

Nah, Satan would never tell anyone to say things that will awaken the dead in hells keeping.

No one enters Satans heavily guarded fortress in the middle of the night, gags and binds him hand and foot, and gets away clean with all of his precious possessions before the sun comes up and the guards awaken to find its coffers completely empty, unless he is stronger.

 

[ding]

More about...

Do you reject all the sages who discuss the distinction?

The only one splitting hairs is you. You keep making fallacious arguments. Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating the fruit from the forbidden tree. In doing so they became aware of their sin. So God banished them from the garden because if they had then eaten from the Tree of Life they would have permanently sealed humanity in a fallen, sinful state forever.

 

[rosends]

they would have permanently sealed humanity in a fallen, sinful state forever.

could you explain this idea? Why would a person's life span have anything to do with the state of a person's soul?

 

[ding]

Oh! Like someone who defies the Divine commands and dies "the death" a curse?

Your obsession with idolatry is misplaced. God doesn't curse anyone. You don't even believe in anything supernatural.

Like whatever religious charlatan or flat out scumbag who taught you that the way to eternal life and to avoid the penalty for the sin of idolatry, death, a curse, is by practicing idolatry?

You don't believe in an afterlife. You don't believe in God. You don't believe in hell. You don't believe in heaven. You don't believe in hell. Your posts ring hollow.

Damn crafty that Satan, that ever elusive talking serpent of old, and all of its descendants.

He's got you working on his behalf. So yeah, he's pretty crafty.

Nah, Satan would never tell anyone to say things that will awaken the dead in hells keeping.

Who said anything about Satan telling you what to do? You are choosing to do evil all on your own.

No one enters Satans heavily guarded fortress in the middle of the night, gags and binds him hand and foot, and gets away clean with all of his possessions unless he is stronger.

You do his bidding. If he has deceived you into thinking you have bested him he's laughing even harder at you.

 

[rylah]

No one is slandering Eve. The distinctions you are trying to make are irrelevant. You can't even get Genesis 1:31 right.

Christian dogma [Timothy 2:11-15] slanders Eve,
accusing her as "sinner" guilty for "the fall of man".

The distinction between this, and Eve not being expressely banished,
unlike Adam and the Serpent, along with God's praise of the day;

is between slandering Eve and so defying God's own judgement,
or learning from the mother of al living creatures.

What does slandering Eve achieve?

 

[hobelim]

Your obsession with idolatry is misplaced. God doesn't curse anyone.

Then how is it that you display all of the signs of a person under the condemnation of God?

 

[hobelim]

Who said anything about Satan telling you what to do?

Ahem. That would be you. Are you really that UNAWARE? Copra sanctum!

He's got you working on his behalf. So yeah, he's pretty crafty.

 

[ding]

could you explain this idea? Why would a person's life span have anything to do with the state of a person's soul?

A person's life span doesn't have anything to do with the state of their soul. That's not what I was saying. The state of our soul has to do with the sum of our existence. And that is greatly influenced by how much we love God.

What I was saying is that that was God's concern and that is why they had to be banned and an angel left guarding the tree. Mind you, I don't believe this is what literally happened.