vegan, vegetarian, or just normal food?

[Dagosa]

I figure since my steak had previously eaten grass, I have a well-rounded diet.

As long as it’s just grass and doesn’t include growth hormones and all the other crap we feed our live stock.

 

[Yarddog]

There is ZERO nutritional need for meat. That is one of the biggest misconceptions in this world.

Not only do you not need meat nutritionally, but tons of studies over a long period of time have shown that the more animal products one eats, the higher one's risk is for heart disease, heart attacks and certain types of cancer. People kill animals, and the animals people eat end up killing people, in the long run. We were never meant to eat dead bodies.

But I get it. As I've mentioned around here a number of times, I distinctly remember saying years ago "I will NEVER be a vegan or vegetarian." So I understand where you all are coming from.

there are some people who eat 100% meat except for certain vegetables... when they do this, the body metabolism changes so that Fat is burned for energy instead of carbs. It takes a couple months or so for it to take effect. Those people end up being lean and healthy. ANd then...... there is the smaller sub group there of raw meat eaters, and in that case, when you DO NOT cook fat it does not clog your arteries and it does not become a carcinogen but is digested by your body in a different way. It becomes good colesterol which actually protects your heart.

 

[Yarddog]

and then consider theh health benefits of Irish WHisky. While I do not recomend a complete whiskey diet, consider the following....

Drink a shot or two

• Reduces your blood pressure. Whiskey reduces your blood pressure and it is against bad cholesterol and blood clots, both lower the risk of stroke or heart attack. ...
• Lengthens your life. ...
• Improves memory. ...
• Hampers weight gain. ...
• Improves digestion. ...
• Relieves stress. ...
• No hangovers.

 

[Foxfyre]

That’s a funny survey. Why isn’t a vegetarian diet considered normal.

A vegetarian diet is normal for vegetarians. But humankind as far back as they can trace the paleontological history has been omnivorous and probably more carnivorous than herbivorous. So for most people a vegetarian diet does not look or feel normal.

 

[Yarddog]

A vegetarian diet is normal for vegetarians. But humankind as far back as they can trace the paleontological history has been omnivorous and probably more carnivorous than herbivorous. So for most people a vegetarian diet does not look or feel normal.

Even Chimpanzees are known to hunt and eat smaller monkeys. It's their natural diet.

 

[Foxfyre]

There is ZERO nutritional need for meat. That is one of the biggest misconceptions in this world.

Not only do you not need meat nutritionally, but tons of studies over a long period of time have shown that the more animal products one eats, the higher one's risk is for heart disease, heart attacks and certain types of cancer. People kill animals, and the animals people eat end up killing people, in the long run. We were never meant to eat dead bodies.

But I get it. As I've mentioned around here a number of times, I distinctly remember saying years ago "I will NEVER be a vegan or vegetarian." So I understand where you all are coming from.

Well I'm sorry but I just don't have it in me to eat a live body so it's sort of necessary to kill and cook what you eat. It isn't like those collard greens we cook up are living plants any more either.

Since God seems to have created humankind to be omnivores, and that is definitely the easiest and tastiest way to achieve a healthy balanced diet, I'll go with that philosophy.

It is true that studies say vegetarians overall live 12% longer than all meat eaters. But vegetarians almost always live a healthier lifestyle in all others ways too. If you study vegetarians compared to meat eaters who live as healthy a lifestyle as the vegetarians, there is essentially no difference in their state of health or life expectancy.

So for me it's just a matter of choice. I respect those who are vegetarians and I respect the guy grilling that ribeye. Live and let live and we can all be happy together.

 

[Foxfyre]

Even Chimpanzees are known to hunt and eat smaller monkeys. It's their natural diet.

Chimps are frugivorous meaning that they do consume animal protein but it constitutes a small percentage of their overall diet.

I tend to eat more veggies and fruit and generally want a small portion of meat myself. But I don't have a problem consuming a portion of well prepared meat or poultry or fish. As I tend to have low blood iron from time to time my doctor keeps urging me to eat more red meat. I prefer poultry or fish.

 

[buttercup]

Well I'm sorry but I just don't have it in me to eat a live body so it's sort of necessary to kill and cook what you eat.

Nope, you really don't have to kill and cook any body, dead or alive. lol. And the only reason I bring that up is because there are people who say things like "well, I kind of feel bad eating animals, but I have to, for nutrition." Well, no. You really don't have to. I'm not speaking to you personally, of course, that was a general you.

Since God seems to have created humankind to be omnivores, and that is definitely the easiest and tastiest way to achieve a healthy balanced diet, I'll go with that philosophy.

Genesis 1:29 clearly refutes that. As does Genesis 2, which (although not as direct as Gen 1:29) shows that the purpose of animals was not to be mere menu items, but to keep man company. If God truly intended animals to be food, He would have stated they are food from the very start, from beginning to end. But the opposite is the case, they were not food in the beginning (Gen. 1:29-30) and they are not in the end, when God restores that Edenic world of peace and harmony that was HIS intent in the first place (Isaiah 11:6-9, Isaiah 65:25, etc.)

God never intended humans and animals to be at each other's throats, and for the animals to live in constant fear of us. Those things are a result of the fall.

And I would not put eating corpses in the same sentence as 'healthy balanced diet', since the long-term effects of flesh eating are not good at all. As for what you said about easiest and tastiest, I think that's another big misconception. I've been vegan for 7 years, and for me it has been easy, for the most part. The only time it was slightly less than easy was when I lived in Baja and I wanted to go out to eat, as the town I lived in had no vegan restaurants. But cooking at home is easy. And the food I make is always tasty.

It is true that studies say vegetarians overall live 12% longer than all meat eaters. But vegetarians almost always live a healthier lifestyle in all others ways too. If you study vegetarians compared to meat eaters who live as healthy a lifestyle as the vegetarians, there is essentially no difference in their state of health or life expectancy.

So for me it's just a matter of choice. I respect those who are vegetarians and I respect the guy grilling that ribeye. Live and let live and we can all be happy together.

I'm glad you brought up the phrase "live and let live." I believe that too, that's precisely why I'm vegan.

One isn't "living and letting live" when you needlessly take the lives of other souls who want to live just as strongly as you and I do. Truly "living and letting live" respects everyone's autonomy, including the animals.... especially ones that are innocent and vulnerable, and look to us to take care of them, not to exploit them for our own selfish reasons.

What I never saw before I went vegan and now see so clearly is this: they trust us, we betray them.

Again, that's a general "we".... thankfully more and more people are choosing to not take part in that. I've said this before, but I'll say it again... It was the second best decision I ever made. My only regret is not doing it years sooner.


Blues Man, CarlinAnnArbor, here we go again.

 

[Dagosa]

A vegetarian diet is normal for vegetarians. But humankind as far back as they can trace the paleontological history has been omnivorous and probably more carnivorous than herbivorous. So for most people a vegetarian diet does not look or feel normal.

Longevity is traceable to lower consumption of red meat and higher ratio of fruits and veggies, with out exception in all parts of the world. This is assuming one eats modestly and staves off fast foods, the real killer. Ask any doctor !!!

Given that the average American consumes way too much fast foods and is 30 plus pounds over weight, a diet consisting more of fresh fruits and vegetables would seem way more nutritious. We’re talking about diet proportions. Anyone’s diet that leans MORE TOWARDS VEGETARIAN MAKES THEIR WEIGHT MORE CONTROLLABLE while getting sufficient nutrients. The smallest portion on your plate in my understanding, should be that piece of meat.

 

[buttercup]

there are some people who eat 100% meat except for certain vegetables... when they do this, the body metabolism changes so that Fat is burned for energy instead of carbs. It takes a couple months or so for it to take effect. Those people end up being lean and healthy. ANd then...... there is the smaller sub group there of raw meat eaters, and in that case, when you DO NOT cook fat it does not clog your arteries and it does not become a carcinogen but is digested by your body in a different way. It becomes good colesterol which actually protects your heart.

I know that the "carnivore diet" is a trendy thing, especially on YouTube.

The reason why some people feel better in the short run when they do a "carnivore" or Keto diet is because typically they go from the S.A.D, which is a horrible diet, to the carnivore or Keto diet, which excludes processed crap, sugar, etc.

However, it is certainly not healthy in the long run.... in the long run it is very bad, and like playing Russian Roulette.

Please watch the documentary 'The Game Changers', it is an excellent documentary about nutrition and all the common misconceptions about plantbased eating.

It's definitely worth watching, even some avid meat-eaters that I know liked it and admitted that it's very good.

 

[Dagosa]

there are some people who eat 100% meat except for certain vegetables... when they do this, the body metabolism changes so that Fat is burned for energy instead of carbs. It takes a couple months or so for it to take effect. Those people end up being lean and healthy. ANd then...... there is the smaller sub group there of raw meat eaters, and in that case, when you DO NOT cook fat it does not clog your arteries and it does not become a carcinogen but is digested by your body in a different way. It becomes good colesterol which actually protects your heart.

That is true...a high protein diet does help with weight control.
But, if you eat ANY processed foods including the meats and don’t include some moderate amounts of specific low calorie vegetables and fruits, a MAIN source of nutrients. You can get fucked.

Most people gain weight because they don’t eat enough of the right foods, which deprives them of nutrients leaving them perpetually hungry. Vegetarians do live longer but not because they are vegetarians, but because they are more diet conscious other wise and eat fewer processed foods which are literally NUTRIENT FREE in many cases. That and the growth hormones and nitrates found in processed foods is a killer.

 

[Dagosa]

I know that the "carnivore diet" is a trendy thing, especially on YouTube.

The reason why some people feel better in the short run when they do a "carnivore" or Keto diet is because typically they go from the S.A.D, which is a horrible diet, to the carnivore or Keto diet, which excludes processed crap, sugar, etc.

However, it is certainly not healthy in the long run.... in the long run it is very bad, and like playing Russian Roulette.

Please watch the documentary 'The Game Changers', it is an excellent documentary about nutrition and all the common misconceptions about plantbased eating.

It's definitely worth watching, even some avid meat-eaters that I know liked it and admitted that it's very good.

Agree...
I have a friend who practices this diet and has for years. He’s battling perpetual heart problems. IMO, it has nothing to do with clogged arteries as they are clean when checked with ultra sound. And, he’s rail thin and is very active. But, fast repair of muscle tissue depends upon having a nutrient rich diet ALL THE TIME especially as we age and are less able to synthesize nutrients for ourselves. The heart is suseptable. I don’t know why he continues. His ejection fraction ratio is really low, which means his heart is always stressed..

 

[buttercup]

I have a friend who practices this diet and has for years. He’s battling perpetual heart problems. IMO, it has nothing to do with clogged arteries, as he’s rail thin and is very active, but fast repair of muscle tissue depends upon including having a nutrient rich diet ALL THE TIME especial as we age and are less able to synthesize nutrients for ourselves. The heart is suseptable. I don’t know why he continues. His ejection fraction ratio is really low, which means his heart is always stressed..

I'm not a nutritionist, but I'm pretty sure that one can be thin and active, yet still have atherosclerosis.

But yeah, he should definitely ditch that diet. Heart problems are not something to take lightly, look into how many Americans die every day from heart disease. It is absolutely crazy.

 

[Dagosa]

I'm not a nutritionist, but I'm pretty sure that one can be thin and active, yet still have atherosclerosis.

But yeah, he should definitely ditch that diet. Heart problems are not something to take lightly, look into how many Americans die every day from heart disease. It is absolutely crazy.

Exactly.
Echocardiograms are regularly given to heart patients to monitor their progress. Clogged arteries is NOT an issue with people on this diet necessarily. But he does have severe heart damage that has required a pacemaker. This is fairly common as we age and hereditary plays a big role with him. It’s my understanding that the electrical part of the hearts function is as much dependent upon good nutrient and heredity as anything.

There are no guarantees but you need the right foods in your corner to have a fighting chance.

 

[Blues Man]

A vegetarian diet is normal for vegetarians. But humankind as far back as they can trace the paleontological history has been omnivorous and probably more carnivorous than herbivorous. So for most people a vegetarian diet does not look or feel normal.

That's probably the worst reasoning for eating meat.

Prehistoric humans ate whatever they could because it was a survival need.

People today in industrialized countries have more food available to them than they could possible eat. The fact that food waste is so ridiculously high proves that.

We do not need to eat meat anymore to survive

 

[Dagosa]

That's probably the worst reasoning for eating meat.

Prehistoric humans ate whatever they could because it was a survival need.

People today in industrialized countries have more food available to them than they could possible eat. The fact that food waste is so ridiculously high proves that.

We do not need to eat meat anymore to survive

Exactly...
But people are now slaves to a fast food industry that employ food engineers who’s sole purpose is to elicit dependencies on their foods. A diet of fast foods with HFCs and without exception, good food begins to taste like sand paper. Now you’re in a diet of literally nutrient free foods and are perpetually hungry. You’re getting fucked by modern science. used to promote obesity for profit.

The average consumer doesn’t stand a chance when fast food place are so plentiful but vegetable stands of fresh produce isn’t.

 

[Blues Man]

Exactly...
But people are now slaves to a fast food industry that employ food engineers who’s sole purpose is to elicit dependencies on their foods. A diet of fast foods with HFCs and without exception, good food begins to taste like sand paper. Now you’re in a diet of literally nutrient free foods and are perpetually hungry. You’re getting fucked by modern science. used to promote obesity for profit.

The average consumer doesn’t stand a chance when fast food place are so plentiful but vegetable stands of fresh produce isn’t.

Not just fast food.

The meat and dairy industry has far too much power and input into government policy.

There is ample scientific evidence that cow's milk is not good for people. That red meat is linked to Type 2 diabetes , that processed meats are a carcinogen etc.

The diet the meat and dairy industry had told the government to peddle is the reason teen agers are now showing signs of heart disease, why incidences of colon cancers in people under 50 are rising.

All we have to do is look at places where the Standard American Diet has replaced traditional diets and see what happened.

 

[Dagosa]

I'm not a nutritionist, but I'm pretty sure that one can be thin and active, yet still have atherosclerosis.

But yeah, he should definitely ditch that diet. Heart problems are not something to take lightly, look into how many Americans die every day from heart disease. It is absolutely crazy.

Also, there are just way too many cancers including lung and rectum and colon cancer that are associated with high consumption of red meat. It should scare the shit out of heavy meat eaters....

 

[Dagosa]

Not just fast food.

The meat and dairy industry has far too much power and input into government policy.

There is ample scientific evidence that cow's milk is not good for people. That red meat is linked to Type 2 diabetes , that processed meats are a carcinogen etc.

The diet the meat and dairy industry had told the government to peddle is the reason teen agers are now showing signs of heart disease, why incidences of colon cancers in people under 50 are rising.

All we have to do is look at places where the Standard American Diet has replaced traditional diets and see what happened.

Agree 100%
I look at fast foods as perfect storm of unhealthy eating. That includes diets way to heavy on processed red meats with peripheral foods like fries and rings that are all nutrient free.


People are victims of their environment when it comes to eating. I can’t say now, but even schools hard fast food alternatives as students walk by the apples just to eat a snickers bar. They are weaned on unhealthy diets and fads.

 

[Dagosa]

Not just fast food.

The meat and dairy industry has far too much power and input into government policy.

There is ample scientific evidence that cow's milk is not good for people. That red meat is linked to Type 2 diabetes , that processed meats are a carcinogen etc.

The diet the meat and dairy industry had told the government to peddle is the reason teen agers are now showing signs of heart disease, why incidences of colon cancers in people under 50 are rising.

All we have to do is look at places where the Standard American Diet has replaced traditional diets and see what happened.

Tne single biggest culprit, soda.