USS Liberty

[mikegriffith1]

Just dropping in for a second to once again mention that every reputable, recognized historian/scholar who has examined the USS Liberty incident has concluded it was a tragic accident. Six U.S. Government investigations into the incident came to the same conclusion. I should also mention that almost invariably, those who continue to peddle the USS Liberty conspiracy theory reveal themselves to be anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli, e.g., Frau, JoeB131, Street Juice, and LA RAM FAN. Two of these four examples are Holocaust deniers, while the two others routinely parrot neo-Nazi/ISIS/Hamas/Iranian propaganda about Jews and Israel.

I'm just saying. . . .

 

[Grau]

"MORE SLANDER

Just dropping in for a second to once again mention that every reputable, recognized historian/scholar who has examined the USS Liberty incident has concluded it was a tragic accident. Six U.S. Government investigations into the incident came to the same conclusion. I should also mention that almost invariably, those who continue to peddle the USS Liberty conspiracy theory reveal themselves to be anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli, e.g., Frau, JoeB131, Street Juice, and LA RAM FAN. Two of these four examples are Holocaust deniers, while the two others routinely parrot neo-Nazi/ISIS/Hamas/Iranian propaganda about Jews and Israel.

I'm just saying. . . .

Just dropping in for more falsehoods, spewing more slander and evading substantive debate.

I've already debunked everything that you've claimed in my comment # 487 that poses questions you continue to evade.

And, finally, there's that $10,000- prize to show where claims made by your sole source, A. Jay Cristol, are true.


"$10,000 Challenge"
https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/10000challenge.html

"The Liberty Veterans Association offers a $10,000 reward to anyone who can establish the truth of A. Jay Cristol's claim:

"After ten official US investigations (including five congressional investigations), there was never any evidence that the attack was made with knowledge that the target was a US ship."

 

[JoeB131]

Just dropping in for a second to once again mention that every reputable, recognized historian/scholar who has examined the USS Liberty incident has concluded it was a tragic accident. Six U.S. Government investigations into the incident came to the same conclusion. I should also mention that almost invariably, those who continue to peddle the USS Liberty conspiracy theory reveal themselves to be anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli, e.g., Frau, JoeB131, Street Juice, and LA RAM FAN. Two of these four examples are Holocaust deniers, while the two others routinely parrot neo-Nazi/ISIS/Hamas/Iranian propaganda about Jews and Israel.

I'm just saying. . . .

Really?

Dean Rusk... Secretary of State under LBJ.

Dean Rusk writes about USS Liberty

"We also lost 34 American lives when, on June 8, the fourth day of the war, the U.S. communications ship Liberty came under air and naval attack. We were meeting with President Johnson in the White House situation room, considering the implications had the Soviets or Egyptians attacked the ship, when we received word from Tel Aviv that Israeli forces were responsible. That didn't please us, although an Israeli attack on Liberty was far easier to deal with. But I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. Their sustained attack to disable and sink Liberty precluded an assault by accident or some trigger-happy local commander. Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous."

Rusk's memoirs: "As I Saw It" (W.W.Norton, 1990) p388


Admiral Thomas Hinman Moore - Chairman of the JCS.

Thomas Moorer Letter of June 8, 1997

I have never believed that the attack on the USS
Liberty was a case of mistaken identity. That is
ridiculous. I have flown over the Atlantic and
Pacific oceans, thousands of hours, searching for
ships and identifying all types of ships at sea.


The Liberty was the ugliest, strangest looking
ship in the U.S. Navy.



As a communications intelligence ship, it was
sprouting every kind of antenna. It looked like a
lobster with all those projections moving every
which way. Israel knew perfectly well that the
ship was American. After all, the Liberty's
American flag and markings were in full view in
perfect visibility for the Israeli aircraft that
overflew the ship eight times over a period of
nearly eight hours prior to the attack.



I am confident that Israel knew the Liberty could
intercept radio messages from all parties and
potential parties to the ongoing war, then in its
fourth day, and that Israel was preparing to seize
the Golan Heights from Syria despite President
Johnson's known opposition to such a move. I
think they realized that if we learned in advance
of their plan, there would be a tremendous amount
of negotiating between Tel Aviv and Washington.


And I believe Moshe Dayan concluded that he could
prevent Washington from becoming aware of what
Israel was up to by destroying the primary source
of acquiring that information - the USS Liberty.


The result was a wanton sneak attack that left 34
American sailors dead and 171 seriously injured.
What is so chilling and cold-blooded, of course,
is that they could kill as many Americans as they
did in confidence that Washington would cooperate
in quelling any public outcry. I have to conclude
that it was Israel's intent to sink the Liberty
and leave as few survivors as possible. Up to the
point where the torpedo boats were sent in, you
could speculate on that point.

You have to remember that the Liberty was an
intelligence ship, not a fighting ship, and its
only defensive weapons were a pair of 50-caliber
machine guns both aft and on the forecastle.

There was little the men could do to fight off the
air assault from Israeli jets that pounded the
Liberty with bombs, rockets, napalm and machine
gun fire for 25 minutes.


With the Liberty riddled with holes, fires
burning, and scores of casualties, three Israeli
torpedo boats closed in for the kill. The second
of three torpedoes ripped through a compartment at
amidships, drowning 25 of the men in that section.


Then the torpedo boats closed to within 100 feet
of the Liberty to continue the attack with cannons
and machine guns, resulting in further casualties.


It is telling, with respect to whether total
annihilation was the intent, that the Liberty crew
has reported that the torpedo boats' machine guns
also were turned on life rafts that were deployed
into the Mediterranean as well as those few on
deck that had escaped damage.


As we know now, if the rescue aircraft from U.S.
carriers had not been recalled, they would have
arrived at the Liberty before the torpedo attack,
reducing the death toll by 25. The torpedo boat
commanders could not be certain that Sixth Fleet
aircraft were not on the way and this might have
led to their breaking off the attack after 40
minutes rather than remaining to send the Liberty
and its crew of 294 to the bottom.


Congress to this day has failed to hold formal
hearings for the record on the Liberty affair.
This is unprecedented and a national disgrace.



I spent hours on the Hill giving testimony after
the USS Pueblo, a sister ship to the Liberty, was
seized by North Korea. I was asked every
imaginable question, including why a carrier in
the area failed to dispatch aircraft to aid the
Pueblo. In the Liberty case, fighters were put in
the air - not once, but twice.



They were ordered to stand down by Secretary of
Defense McNamara and President Johnson for reasons
the American public deserves to know.



The captain and crew of the Liberty, rather than
being widely acclaimed as the heroes they most
certainly are, have been silenced, ignored,
honored belatedly and away from the cameras, and
denied a history that accurately reflects their
ordeal.


I was appalled that six of the dead from the
Liberty lay under a tombstone at Arlington
Cemetery that described them as having "died in
the eastern Mediterranean," as if disease rather
than Israeli intent had caused their deaths. The
Naval Academy failed to record the name of Lt.
Stephen Toth in Memorial Hall on the grounds that
he had not been killed in battle. I intervened
and was able to reverse the apparent idea that
dying in a cowardly, one-sided attack by a
supposed ally is somehow not the same as being
killed by an avowed enemy.

Commander McGonagle's story is the stuff of naval
tradition. Badly wounded in the first air attack,
lying on the deck and losing blood, he refused any
treatment that would take him from his battle
station on the bridge. He continued to direct the
ship's defense, the control of flooding and fire,
and by his own example inspired the survivors to
heroic efforts to save the ship. He did not
relinquish his post until hours later, after
having directed the crippled ship's navigation to
a rendezvous with a U.S. destroyer and final
arrival in Malta.

I must have gone to the White House 15 times or
more to watch the President personally award the
Congressional Medal of Honor to Americans of
special valor. So it irked the hell out of me
when McGonagle's ceremony was relegated to the
obscurity of the Washington Navy Yard and the
medal was presented by the Secretary of the Navy.
This was a back-handed slap. Everyone else
received their medal at the White House.

President Johnson must have been concerned about
the reaction of the Israeli lobby.



​

 

[JoeB131]

Axis Mikey, are you really saying Secretary Rusk and Admiral Moore are not credible?

Hey, Mikey, here's something from Fox News. I guess Hamas got to them, too!

Ex-Navy Official: 1967 Israeli Attack on U.S. Ship Was Deliberate

A former Navy attorney who helped lead the military investigation of the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty (search) that killed 34 American servicemen says former President Lyndon Johnson (search) and his defense secretary, Robert McNamara (search), ordered that the inquiry conclude the...

www.foxnews.com

A former Navy attorney who helped lead the military investigation of the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty (search) that killed 34 American servicemen says former President Lyndon Johnson (search) and his defense secretary, Robert McNamara (search), ordered that the inquiry conclude the incident was an accident.

In a signed affidavit released at a Capitol Hill news conference, retired Capt. Ward Boston (search) said Johnson and McNamara told those heading the Navy's inquiry to "conclude that the attack was a case of 'mistaken identity' despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary."

Boston was senior legal counsel to the Navy's original 1967 review of the attack. He said in the sworn statement that he stayed silent for years because he's a military man, and "when orders come ... I follow them."

In Capt. Boston's statement, he does not say why Johnson would have ordered a cover-up. Later in a phone interview from his home in Coronado, Calif., Boston said Johnson may have worried the inquiry would hurt him politically with Jewish voters.

Moorer's panel suggested several possible reasons Israel might have wanted to attack a U.S. ship. Among them: Israel intended to sink the ship and blame Egypt because it might have brought the United States into the 1967 war.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Axis Mikey, are you really saying Secretary Rusk and Admiral Moore are not credible?

It's Admiral Moorer, not Moore. And, no, Rusk and Moorer are not credible on this issue, and neither man did extensive research on the incident. Furthermore, Admiral Moorer was Chief of Naval Operations when the USS Liberty Navy Court of Inquiry concluded the attack was an accident. How does this fact mesh with your nutjob theory that some vast Jewish conspiracy prevented the Navy Court of Inquiry from recording or publishing evidence that the attack was deliberate?

Moorer made up his mind right after the attack and refused to consider the subsequent clear evidence that the attack was an accident. His own Navy Court of Inquiry disagreed with him and concluded the attack was accidental. He assumed the Israeli jets and boats could not have failed to ID the Liberty as an American ship, yet this has been explained by many experts and was documented in several U.S. Government investigations into the attack.

This is why every single professional historian who has examined the USS Liberty attack has concluded it was an accident.

Rusk knew next to nothing about the attack. He did no research and was not even aware of Clark Clifford's investigation when he was interviewed in 1989; he had not even read any of the Israeli government's investigations into the incident by then:

http://www.libertyincident.com/docs/rusktranscript.pdf

It is worth mentioning that Rusk was rather anti-Israeli. He was one of the few American officials who opposed recognizing the state of Israel in 1948. Luckily, Truman ignored his advice.

Hey, Mikey, here's something from Fox News. I guess Hamas got to them, too!

Ex-Navy Official: 1967 Israeli Attack on U.S. Ship Was Deliberate

A former Navy attorney who helped lead the military investigation of the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty (search) that killed 34 American servicemen says former President Lyndon Johnson (search) and his defense secretary, Robert McNamara (search), ordered that the inquiry conclude the...

www.foxnews.com

Oh, wow. Fox News was not endorsing the USS Liberty conspiracy theory. Anyone with a brain who reads the link can see that. This was a new story that reported on a news conference held by an advocate of the conspiracy theory, Ward Boston.

A former Navy attorney who helped lead the military investigation of the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty (search) that killed 34 American servicemen says former President Lyndon Johnson (search) and his defense secretary, Robert McNamara (search), ordered that the inquiry conclude the incident was an accident.

In a signed affidavit released at a Capitol Hill news conference, retired Capt. Ward Boston (search) said Johnson and McNamara told those heading the Navy's inquiry to "conclude that the attack was a case of 'mistaken identity' despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary."

Boston was senior legal counsel to the Navy's original 1967 review of the attack. He said in the sworn statement that he stayed silent for years because he's a military man, and "when orders come ... I follow them." In Capt. Boston's statement, he does not say why Johnson would have ordered a cover-up. Later in a phone interview from his home in Coronado, Calif., Boston said Johnson may have worried the inquiry would hurt him politically with Jewish voters.

Boston's 2003 claims starkly contradict what he told USS Liberty expert A. Jay Cristol in personal conversations years earlier, as Cristol pointed out after Boston's news conference:

http://www.libertyincident.com/docs/boston-comments.pdf

Other than Ward Boston's decades-belated claim, there is not a shred of evidence that LBJ or McNamara ordered the Navy Court of Inquiry to ignore relevant evidence. And what about the eight other federal investigations that also concluded the attack was an accident, including the Joint Chiefs of Staff report and the CIA report?

How about the Israeli military radio comms transcripts and intercepts, which show the Israelis did not know the ship was American until afterward, and which show that toward end of the attack the Israelis feared the ship was Soviet? How about the gun camera footage? Oh, that's right: you claim all this evidence was faked/doctored. How convenient, not to mention implausible.

Moorer's panel suggested several possible reasons Israel might have wanted to attack a U.S. ship. Among them: Israel intended to sink the ship and blame Egypt because it might have brought the United States into the 1967 war.

And as numerous experts have pointed out, that theory makes no sense at all. Israel already had the war won at that point.

And, FYI, Moorer's "panel" was a collection of a few angry officials (four, to be exact) who had already made up their minds on the subject. The panel did not even address most of the evidence that showed the attack was accidental. They brushed aside the CIA's investigation, NSA's investigation, and the House Armed Services Committee's investigation. Moorer's "panel" did not even address the fact that, due to a comms snafu, we told the Israelis there were no American ships in the area near El Arish, which was one more reason they logically assumed the ship was Egyptian and then possibly Russian.

 

[JoeB131]

It's Admiral Moorer, not Moore. And, no, Rusk and Moorer are not credible on this issue, and neither man did extensive research on the incident. Furthermore, Admiral Moorer was Chief of Naval Operations when the USS Liberty Navy Court of Inquiry concluded the attack was an accident. How does this fact mesh with your nutjob theory that some vast Jewish conspiracy prevented the Navy Court of Inquiry from recording or publishing evidence that the attack was deliberate?

Moorer made up his mind right after the attack and refused to consider the subsequent clear evidence that the attack was an accident. His own Navy Court of Inquiry disagreed with him and concluded the attack was accidental. He assumed the Israeli jets and boats could not have failed to ID the Liberty as an American ship, yet this has been explained by many experts and was documented in several U.S. Government investigations into the attack.

Again, investigations that were told by LBJ what their conclusion was.

But, no, no, our government isn't controlled by the Zionist Lobby at all.

This is why every single professional historian who has examined the USS Liberty attack has concluded it was an accident.

I'll take the word of military men over historians, thanks.

Rusk knew next to nothing about the attack. He did no research and was not even aware of Clark Clifford's investigation when he was interviewed in 1989; he had not even read any of the Israeli government's investigations into the incident by then:

Again, nothing coming out of the CYA Zionists is credible.

It is worth mentioning that Rusk was rather anti-Israeli. He was one of the few American officials who opposed recognizing the state of Israel in 1948. Luckily, Truman ignored his advice.

Yes, because look how well that's worked out for us!!! We keep getting dragged into one war after another over there. 1.5 Billion Muslims hate us with a passion. Most of the rest of the world doesn't care much for the blank check we write these people.

It's funny how you disagree with every other decision Truman made (Nuking Japan, not escalating Korea into WWIII) but man, he was totally right on this one!

And, FYI, Moorer's "panel" was a collection of a few angry officials (four, to be exact) who had already made up their minds on the subject. The panel did not even address most of the evidence that showed the attack was accidental. They brushed aside the CIA's investigation, NSA's investigation, and the House Armed Services Committee's investigation. Moorer's "panel" did not even address the fact that, due to a comms snafu, we told the Israelis there were no American ships in the area near El Arish, which was one more reason they logically assumed the ship was Egyptian and then possibly Russian.

Um, you think the Zionists would have attacked a Russian ship? Really?

The point is, you say that only cranks and anti-Semites conclude that it wasn't an accident.

I would call Rusk, Moorer, and Boston credible people.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Again, investigations that were told by LBJ what their conclusion was.

Nobody but you and a handful of other fringe folks believe that. You have one single, solitary source for this nonsense, a source who made this claim decades after the fact and in contradiction to what he had said earlier.

But, no, no, our government isn't controlled by the Zionist Lobby at all.

Yeah! Right! Thanks for again peddling the neo-Nazi/ISIS/Hamas/Iranian propaganda that Zionists control the U.S. Government. Thanks for sharing.

I'll take the word of military men over historians, thanks.

Actually, no, you don't. You're saying that the entire USS Liberty Navy Court of Inquiry went along with LBJ's alleged cover-up, that even the Joint Chiefs of Staff lied about the attack in their report, etc. You're calling every military officer who was involved in the federal USS Liberty investigations a liar or a coward. You're rejecting all the military historians who've concluded the attack was a tragic accident, including the Naval History and Heritage Command, which published a detailed refutation of the USS Liberty conspiracy theory (LINK).

What you really mean to say, or should say, is that you take the word of a tiny minority of military men over the word of their fellow military men and over the word of every single historian who has examined the attack.

Again, nothing coming out of the CYA Zionists is credible.

Yes, of course. Sieg Heil, Obergruppenfuhrer JoeB131!

Yes, because look how well that's worked out for us!!! We keep getting dragged into one war after another over there. 1.5 Billion Muslims hate us with a passion. Most of the rest of the world doesn't care much for the blank check we write these people.

Please keep repeating this nutcase neo-Nazi/radical Muslim propaganda. No, 1.5 billion Muslims do not hate us. Only your buddies in radical Muslim terrorist groups and Iran mullahs, etc., hate us. Most Muslims do not share that hate.

It's funny how you disagree with every other decision Truman made (Nuking Japan, not escalating Korea into WWIII) but man, he was totally right on this one!

This is just so comical. Anyway, so you don't think we should have recognized the state of Israel. Duly noted. You cheer FDR for recognizing the Soviet Union, but you think it was wrong to recognize Israel. Thanks again for showing what a wingnut you are.

Um, you think the Zionists would have attacked a Russian ship? Really?

Umm, can you be any dumber? Do you have a reading problem? Did anyone say that the Israelis purposely attacked a Russian ship? No, the point is that for a time the Israelis feared they had accidentally attacked a Russian ship instead of an Egyptian ship.

I mean, sheesh, how silly can you get?

The point is, you say that only cranks and anti-Semites conclude that it wasn't an accident.

Absolutely, that has been the case for many years now, after all the federal investigations and after the release of classified materials relating to the incident. Yes, nowadays, the only people who still peddle the USS Liberty conspiracy theory are cranks, anti-Semites, and USS Liberty survivors blinded by their experience.

I would call Rusk, Moorer, and Boston credible people.

Well of course you would, and you would do so without even trying to respond to my points about their lack of credibility. Again, just to refresh your memory, Rusk knew virtually nothing about the attack, in addition to being one of the few American officials who argued against recognizing Israel.

Moorer knew so little about the attack that he never stopped repeating his erroneous argument that there was no way the Israeli jets and boats could have misidentified the Liberty, an argument that military experts have dissected and that the gun camera footage refutes.

As for Boston, I'm guessing you didn't bother to read A. Jay Cristol's critique of Boston's claim. I notice you said nothing about the fact that Boston's belated claim contradicted his earlier statements.

 

[JoeB131]

Nobody but you and a handful of other fringe folks believe that. You have one single, solitary source for this nonsense, a source who made this claim decades after the fact and in contradiction to what he had said earlier.

Actually, we have a lot of sources, from the crew, from people who didn't go along with the cover up.

Actually, no, you don't. You're saying that the entire USS Liberty Navy Court of Inquiry went along with LBJ's alleged cover-up, that even the Joint Chiefs of Staff lied about the attack in their report, etc. You're calling every military officer who was involved in the federal USS Liberty investigations a liar or a coward. You're rejecting all the military historians who've concluded the attack was a tragic accident, including the Naval History and Heritage Command, which published a detailed refutation of the USS Liberty conspiracy theory

Um, yeah, I'm calling most of them cowards, in that they saluted and marched no matter what stupid shit the politicians wanted.

You can scream all day about scholars, but anyone with a lick of sense can tell you that you don't bomb a ship three times by "Accident".

Please keep repeating this nutcase neo-Nazi/radical Muslim propaganda. No, 1.5 billion Muslims do not hate us. Only your buddies in radical Muslim terrorist groups and Iran mullahs, etc., hate us. Most Muslims do not share that hate.

Um, no, guy.

Home Arab Public Opinion about the Israeli War on Gaza

They don't like us. They have good reasons not to.

This is just so comical. Anyway, so you don't think we should have recognized the state of Israel. Duly noted. You cheer FDR for recognizing the Soviet Union, but you think it was wrong to recognize Israel. Thanks again for showing what a wingnut you are.

The Soviet Union was a legitimate government of Russia.
Had been for some time.

The Zionist Entity was an illegal gang of thugs who stole Arab land.

Absolutely, that has been the case for many years now, after all the federal investigations and after the release of classified materials relating to the incident. Yes, nowadays, the only people who still peddle the USS Liberty conspiracy theory are cranks, anti-Semites, and USS Liberty survivors blinded by their experience.

Or they just know bullshit when they smell it. Frankly, the whole 'We attacked a clearly marked American Ship three times totally be accident" just doesn't pass the smell test.

Well of course you would, and you would do so without even trying to respond to my points about their lack of credibility. Again, just to refresh your memory, Rusk knew virtually nothing about the attack, in addition to being one of the few American officials who argued against recognizing Israel.

Rusk was the fucking Secretary of State.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Actually, we have a lot of sources, from the crew, from people who didn't go along with the cover up.

No, you don't. And let's keep in mind that you claim that the Navy Court of Inquiry testimony of the crewmembers was suppressed or altered by a vast Jewish conspiracy.

Um, yeah, I'm calling most of them cowards, in that they saluted and marched no matter what stupid &^&%$ the politicians wanted.

Huh, well, okay! LOL! Thanks again for proving what a wingnut you are.

You can scream all day about scholars, but anyone with a lick of sense can tell you that you don't bomb a ship three times by "Accident".

Actually, anyone with a lick of sense can see that the evidence proves conclusively that the Israelis did not know the Liberty was American until afterward. Anyone with a lick of sense can see from the circumstances of the attack that the pilots' and the torpedo boats' failure to ID the ship as American was entirely understandable.

Um, no, guy.

Home Arab Public Opinion about the Israeli War on Gaza

They don't like us. They have good reasons not to.

Um, no, Jihad Joe Wingnut, 1.5 billion Arabs do note hate us, and the link you cited makes no such argument. Did you actually bother to read the link? The survey questioned 8,000 Arabs in 16 Arab countries, including the Palestinian Authority--and the main subject of the survey was the Israeli-Hamas conflict. Again, did you read the link?

What the survey does show is how radicalized some Arabs in the Middle East have become, yet even then the survey found that a sizable minority of the Arabs who were polled do not support Hamas, do not view the U.S. as the enemy, etc., etc. I'd bet good money that the percentage of dissenters would rise considerably if the same poll were done among Arabs who live in the U.S., Canada, and Europe.

Anyway, your claim that 1.5 billion Arabs hate the U.S. is just further proof that you are an anti-Semitic, anti-Israeli wingnut.

The Soviet Union was a legitimate government of Russia. Had been for some time.

Oh! Really?! So Stalin's tyrannical government, which had seized power by murdering or jailing hundreds of thousands of Russians, and which denied basic human and societal rights--that regime was the "legitimate government of Russia"?! You and I have very different definitions of "legitimate."

The Zionist Entity was an illegal gang of thugs who stole Arab land.

You know, several neo-Nazi and radical Muslim publications might start complaining that you're quoting them without giving them proper credit. You really should start prefacing your jihadist/neo-Nazi statements with phrases like "As all neo-Nazi groups agree" and "As every Muslim terrorist will tell you" and "As Hamas and ISIS have repeatedly noted."

Or they just know BS when they smell it. Frankly, the whole 'We attacked a clearly marked American Ship three times totally be accident" just doesn't pass the smell test.

According to you, a proud anti-Semite who parrots neo-Nazi and radical Muslim trash about Jews and Israel.

As I have explained and documented for you, the ship was not clearly marked for Israeli jet pilots traveling hundreds of miles per hour and approaching on an attack angle and for Israeli sailors who were looking at the ship through the huge amounts of smoke coming from the ship and who had just been fired at by the ship due to a comms snafu and a weapon malfunction on the ship. There's also the fact that the Liberty's flag is not visible in the gun camera footage.

Rusk was the *&^&$# Secretary of State.

And? So what? You just keep ignoring the fact that Rusk did no research on the incident and was even unaware of key investigations when interviewed.

As for Moorer, well, well, it turns out he was associated with the anti-Semitic, Holocaust-denying group Liberty Lobby and was known as an anti-Israel activist:

Anti-Israel Activist Among Bush Backers
09/20/00

Contact: David A. Harris, 202-216-9060

WASHINGTON, DC: Secretary Richard Cheney today released a list of Vice Chairs of "Veterans for Bush-Cheney" that included well-known radical right and anti-Israel activist Admiral Thomas Moorer (ret.).

According to Ira N. Forman, Executive Director of the National Jewish Democratic Council, "On numerous occasions, Admiral Moorer has gone out of his way to criticize the close relationship between Israel and the United States. He was even quoted as saying, 'I've never seen a President--I don't care who he is--stand up to them [the Israelis]. It just boggles your mind .... If the American people understood what a grip those people have got on our government, they would rise up in arms. Our citizens don't have any idea what goes on' (They Dare to Speak Out: People and Institutions Confront Israel's Lobby, Paul Findley, 1985).

"Admiral Moorer has been associated with such radical right and anti-Semitic organizations as the Liberty Lobby. We call upon Governor Bush to cleanse extremists and Israel-bashers from his public list of supporters."

You have made it clear that your fringe position, your acceptance of the discredited USS Liberty conspiracy theory, is not based on a credible, sincere examination of the evidence but on your open bigotry and hatred toward Jews and Israel.

 

[JoeB131]

No, you don't. And let's keep in mind that you claim that the Navy Court of Inquiry testimony of the crewmembers was suppressed or altered by a vast Jewish conspiracy.

It's not a conspiracy if they do it in the open.

Actually, anyone with a lick of sense can see that the evidence proves conclusively that the Israelis did not know the Liberty was American until afterward. Anyone with a lick of sense can see from the circumstances of the attack that the pilots' and the torpedo boats' failure to ID the ship as American was entirely understandable.

Understandable if you are a sad suckup to the Zionists.

The crew has a pretty different opinion.

Anyway, your claim that 1.5 billion Arabs hate the U.S. is just further proof that you are an anti-Semitic, anti-Israeli wingnut.

I said Muslims, not Arabs, and yes, the US is despised in the Islamic world for a variety or reasons.

Oh! Really?! So Stalin's tyrannical government, which had seized power by murdering or jailing hundreds of thousands of Russians, and which denied basic human and societal rights--that regime was the "legitimate government of Russia"?! You and I have very different definitions of "legitimate."

I guess we do. The Soviets had been in power for two decades before FDR stopped pretending they weren't there.

You know, several neo-Nazi and radical Muslim publications might start complaining that you're quoting them without giving them proper credit. You really should start prefacing your jihadist/neo-Nazi statements with phrases like "As all neo-Nazi groups agree" and "As every Muslim terrorist will tell you" and "As Hamas and ISIS have repeatedly noted."

Guy, you are the crank who thinks Sihran Sihran was mind controlled.

As I have explained and documented for you, the ship was not clearly marked for Israeli jet pilots traveling hundreds of miles per hour and approaching on an attack angle and for Israeli sailors who were looking at the ship through the huge amounts of smoke coming from the ship and who had just been fired at by the ship due to a comms snafu and a weapon malfunction on the ship. There's also the fact that the Liberty's flag is not visible in the gun camera footage.

YOu mean the gun camera footage the Zionists provided?

Come on, guy, they launched THREE SEPARATE attacks, and NONE of them noticed that big old US Flag or that the ship was obviously NOT a freighter or warship.

As for Moorer, well, well, it turns out he was associated with the anti-Semitic, Holocaust-denying group Liberty Lobby and was known as an anti-Israel activist:

Oh, is this going to be your schtick now, everyone who criticizes Israel is a Nazi?

 

[abu afak]

I'll take the word of military men over historians, thanks.

How about The LIberty's Captain?

Actually the Israeli Cabinet was in session at this point, and considering (most likely) it was a Russian ship.
In any case...
the Captain himself Conceding the initial Israeli air attack might well have been in ERROR, and wanting to Read (and respond to) the SIGNAL from the Torpedo boats before Firing on them, which would/Did provoke an attack by them.
Alas, the Captain Failed to hold fire and Failed to make a coherent response to that Signal.
BTW, who, on a mission to sink a ship they Ostensibly already knew the identity of, Signals First?

CAMERA: The History Channel’s Bogus “History”
(my highlighting) (Not in dispute: can be found on both sides websites)

​

[CAPTAIN] MCGONAGLE:​

[......]​

"..I did not have an accurate ship's position at this time, but I knew that to the left of the ship's course at that time lie shoal waters and by turning to the left I would be approaching land closer than had been given me in directives which I held in that instant in time. I realized that if I attempted to turn to starboard, I would expose a larger target to the torpedo boats. I elected to maintain a heading of 283 at maximum speed. When the boats reached an approximate range of 2,000 yards, the center boat of the formation was Signalling to us.​

​

Also, at this range, it appeared that they were flying an Israli (sic) flag. This was later verified. It was not possible to read the signals from the center torpedo boat because of the intermittent blocking of view by smoke and flames.​

At this time, I yelled to machine gun 51 to tell him to Hold Fire. I realized that there was a Possibility of the aircraft having been Israeli and the attack had been Conducted in Error. I wanted to Hold Fire to see if we could read the Signal from the torpedo boat and perhaps avoid additional damage and personnel injuries.​

​

The man on machine gun 51 fired a short burst at the boats Before he was able to understand what I was attempting to have him do. Instantly, on machine gun 51 opening fire machine gun 53 began firing at the center boat.​

From the starboard wing of the bridge, 03 level, I observed that the fire from machine gun 53 was extremely Effective and Blanketed the area and the center torpedo boat.​

It was not possible to get to mount 53 from the starboard wing of the bridge. I sent Mr. LUCAS around the port-side of the bridge, around to the skylights, to see if he could tell QUINTERO, whom I believed to be the gunner on machine gun 53, to hold fire until we were able to clarify the situation. He reported back in a few minutes in effect that he saw no one at mount 53.​

As far as the torpedo boats were concerned, I am sure that they felt They were under fire from the USS LIBERTY. At THIS time They opened fire with their gun mounts and in a matter of seconds one torpedo was noted crossing astern of the ship at about 25 yards."..​

McGonagle's statement Alone is enough to Destroy the Liberty CT and his Testimony quite consistent with that of the Israel in their claim of trying to signal/Identify the ship.
I have more than Two Decades debating this Dead Horse.
Hadn't seen it in ages until today.
`

 

[mikegriffith1]

Here are some links to counter the Hamas/neo-Nazi/Iranian propaganda about the fighting in Gaza being peddled by our resident anti-Semites and Israel haters, especially JoeB131. These links include segments on Hamas's phony claims about alleged Israeli "atrocities," Hamas's questionable casualty numbers, and Hamas's use of civilians as human shields. These links also document that the real atrocities have been carried out by Hamas:

NGO Complicity in Hamas Propaganda on Gaza Hospital - ngomonitor

On October 17, the Hamas-run Ministry of Health in Gaza claimed that an Israeli airstrike hit Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital, killing hundreds of civilians. Many NGOs immediately adopted the Hamas narrative of Israeli culpability, even though there was no evidence to support it.

ngo-monitor.org

https://henryjacksonsociety.org/event/hjs-online-report-launch-questionable-counting/

Hamas Propaganda Gets a Pass from ‘Disinformation’ Watchdogs

Christiane Amanpour had a problem, and in mid-February CNN talker decided to confront her network’s leadership about it. Her frustration boiled down to the fact that CNN was carefully running

www.commentary.org

How Russia uses the Israel-Gaza Crisis in its disinformation campaign against the West

On 29 October a large crowd took over the Makhachkala Airport in the Republic of Dagestan, a region with a diminishing minority Jewish population of about 300 - 400 families. Rumours of “uninvited guests” circulated in local Telegram channels and resulted in the complete takeover of the airport.

icct.nl

https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/questionable-counting/

The Hamas Propaganda War

Across the Arab world, the group is successfully selling its narrative of resistance.

www.newyorker.com

Humanitarians Should Want Hamas’s Human-Sacrifice Strategy to Fail

With the world’s attention riveted on the stunning aerial clash between Iran and Israel, it is easy to lose focus on Gaza. But the war there remains unresolved. President Biden supported Israel against Iran’s April 13 drone and missile barrage. U.S. military forces even shot down some of the...

www.hudson.org

https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-hamas-terrorist-organization/the-truth-about-hamas-and-israel/

Lies, Damn Lies, and UN-Washed Hamas Propaganda Statistics

A close inspection of the Hamas-UN data clearly shows the efforts invested in engineering a specific narrative to tell a specific lie. - Lies, Damn Lies, and UN-Washed Hamas Propaganda Statistics

jcpa.org

Debunking 5 Social Media Myths on the Israel-Hamas War

Within hours of the Hamas terrorist attack on Israel Saturday, a tidal wave of propaganda and conspiracy theories flooded social media in an effort to shape the narrative – not only for the days to come but for the history books.

www.ajc.org

The BBC Spreads Hamas Propaganda, Despite Telling the Truth in 2017 - Algemeiner.com

Nearly eight years ago, in May 2017, the BBC News website published a report on the topic of a policy document published by Hamas. At the time, the BBC accurately reported that: The new document, which Hamas says does not replace the charter, accepts the establishment of a Palestinian state...

www.algemeiner.com

The parroting of Hamas propaganda is an ethical crisis for journalism - The Jewish Chronicle

Truth is the first casualty of war, and the media has failed to uphold it

www.thejc.com

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/allegation-claim-atrocities-committed-hamas-oct-7-including-sexual-assault

McCaul Declares Hamas Committed Acts of Genocide, Crimes Against Humanity, War Crimes — Calls Upon State Department To Determine Same - Committee on Foreign Affairs

Washington, D.C. — Today, House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Michael McCaul (R-TX) sent a letter to Secretary of State Antony Blinken and United States Ambassador-at-Large for Global Criminal Justice Beth Van Schaack, issuing a clear and unambiguous declaration that Hamas has committed...

foreignaffairs.house.gov

https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf

https://www.aipac.org/resources/hamas-using-palestinian-civilians-as-human-shields-to-attack-israel-na87m-z6s6j-c5ba4

NGOs Bolster Hamas’ Human Shields Strategy and Cynical Manipulation of Humanitarian Evacuation - ngomonitor

Many NGOs that claim to promote human rights, humanitarian principles, and international law have condemned Israel for the evacuation warning. This campaign is not only aimed at diverting attention from the barbaric Hamas slaughter of 1,500 Israelis, but also bolsters and enables Hamas.

ngo-monitor.org

BREAKING: IDF Captures Hamas Combat Manual Explaining Benefits of Human Shields SWC: "End double standard against Israel - hold Hamas accountable for crimes against Palestinians and Israelis"

www.wiesenthal.com

You are being redirected...

Hamas commits war crimes in hospitals and mosques, but world says nothing

Hamas supporters in New York and London took to the streets this weekend to pressure the American and British governments to cut off support for Israel’s war on terrorism. Hamas responded...

www.fdd.org

Hamas Should Never Be Decriminalised

The campaign to remove Hamas from the UK’s list of proscribed organisations is not about defending free speech or political dissent. It is about legitimising jihadist warmongering.

quillette.com

 

[JoeB131]

How about The LIberty's Captain?

The Captain of the Liberty is on record as saying he thought it was a deliberate attack.

‘Liberty Incident’ Author Missed Skipper’s View

The author of a book claiming to be the “definitive account” of the 1967 Israeli attack on an American Navy ship says he is not aware that the ship’s captain had publicly stated his belief Israel’s attack on the Liberty was no accident.

www.military.com

First in 1997 and more strongly in 1998 – four years before Cristol’s book was first published – McGonagle publicly stated that he believed the attack on Liberty was deliberate.

Speaking at Arlington National Cemetery, where some crew remains are buried beneath a memorial stone, McGonagle said he had “wanted to believe that the attack ... was pure error.”

“It appears to me it was not a case of mistaken identity. I think that it’s about time that the state of Israel and the United States government provide the crewmembers of the Liberty and the rest of the American people the facts of what happened.”


But a year later McGonagle made his point even more clearly in an open letter to President Bill Clinton, who was rumored to be considering releasing Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard. Pollard was a Navy analyst who sold tens of thousands of classified secrets to Israel.

McGonagle told Clinton that Pollard should not be released to Israel “until and unless the Government of Israel acknowledges, in writing and publicly, that the Government of Israel's armed forces (air and naval) deliberately attacked [the USS Liberty].”

Here are some links to counter the Hamas/neo-Nazi/Iranian propaganda about the fighting in Gaza being peddled by our resident anti-Semites and Israel haters, especially JoeB131. These links include segments on Hamas's phony claims about alleged Israeli "atrocities," Hamas's questionable casualty numbers, and Hamas's use of civilians as human shields. These links also document that the real atrocities have been carried out by Hamas:

Oh, look, Axis Mikey is once again downplaying atrocities against people of color. Isn't that special?

Hey, Mikey, GENOCIDE IS BAD EVEN WHEN IT DOESN'T HAPPEN TO WHITE PEOPLE, YOU MORMON FUCKHEAD.

Hamas exists because Israel has refused to negotiate in good faith with the Palestinian people. In fact, Netanyahu used Hamas as a foil against the legitimate Fatah-led Palestinian Authority and gave them a free rein in Gaza for years.

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com

More to the point, Hamas is doing what ANY people under a foreign occupation would do, they are resisting.

If a bunch of (Insert foreign group here) occupied your hometown and treated you like a second-class citizen in your own home, you'd resist. That is, if you are any kind of a man, you would.

You'd probably soil your magic underwear, though.

 

[gipper]

Just dropping in for a second to once again mention that every reputable, recognized historian/scholar who has examined the USS Liberty incident has concluded it was a tragic accident. Six U.S. Government investigations into the incident came to the same conclusion. I should also mention that almost invariably, those who continue to peddle the USS Liberty conspiracy theory reveal themselves to be anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli, e.g., Frau, JoeB131, Street Juice, and LA RAM FAN. Two of these four examples are Holocaust deniers, while the two others routinely parrot neo-Nazi/ISIS/Hamas/Iranian propaganda about Jews and Israel.

I'm just saying. . . .

Are you a Zionist as well as a state loving ‘historian?’

How do you write a book about FDR’s deceit at Pearl Harbor, yet believe the government, politicians, and corporate media on every other major event?

 

[abu afak]

The Captain of the Liberty is on record as saying he thought it was a deliberate attack.

‘Liberty Incident’ Author Missed Skipper’s View

The author of a book claiming to be the “definitive account” of the 1967 Israeli attack on an American Navy ship says he is not aware that the ship’s captain had publicly stated his belief Israel’s attack on the Liberty was no accident.

www.military.com

First in 1997 and more strongly in 1998 – four years before Cristol’s book was first published – McGonagle publicly stated that he believed the attack on Liberty was deliberate.

Speaking at Arlington National Cemetery, where some crew remains are buried beneath a memorial stone, McGonagle said he had “wanted to believe that the attack ... was pure error.”

“It appears to me it was not a case of mistaken identity. I think that it’s about time that the state of Israel and the United States government provide the crewmembers of the Liberty and the rest of the American people the facts of what happened.”


But a year later McGonagle made his point even more clearly in an open letter to President Bill Clinton, who was rumored to be considering releasing Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard. Pollard was a Navy analyst who sold tens of thousands of classified secrets to Israel.

McGonagle told Clinton that Pollard should not be released to Israel “until and unless the Government of Israel acknowledges, in writing and publicly, that the Government of Israel's armed forces (air and naval) deliberately attacked [the USS Liberty].”



Oh, look, Axis Mikey is once again downplaying atrocities against people of color. Isn't that special?

Hey, Mikey, GENOCIDE IS BAD EVEN WHEN IT DOESN'T HAPPEN TO WHITE PEOPLE, YOU MORMON FUCKHEAD.

Hamas exists because Israel has refused to negotiate in good faith with the Palestinian people. In fact, Netanyahu used Hamas as a foil against the legitimate Fatah-led Palestinian Authority and gave them a free rein in Gaza for years.

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com

More to the point, Hamas is doing what ANY people under a foreign occupation would do, they are resisting.

If a bunch of (Insert foreign group here) occupied your hometown and treated you like a second-class citizen in your own home, you'd resist. That is, if you are any kind of a man, you would.

You'd probably soil your magic underwear, though.

"Netanyahu", "Hamas," Genocide"? &($#U^$

You're actually an Out of Control/Vomiting/Rabid anti-Semite C0cksukker!
Whoa!

There is nothing better than McGonagle's Coherent and CONTEMPORARY Under Oath Testimony Unpressured by the 'Liberty Lobby' 30 Years Later, who must offer to pay the funeral expenses of several.
He was outright lying about being Signaled first, and his subsequent logical response of trying to hold fire, and explanation why!

Not to mention all the other investigations along with some 'ooops' false 'gotcha' attempts.
`

 

[JoeB131]

"Netanyahu", "Hamas," Genocide"? &($#U^$

You're actually an Out of Control/Vomiting/Rabid anti-Semite C0cksukker!
Whoa!

Nope. The Arabs are just as much "Semites" as the Zionists. I'm anti-Zionist because it is a racist, imperialist philosophy based on religious stupidity.

There is nothing better than McGonagle's Coherent and CONTEMPORARY Under Oath Testimony Unpressured by the 'Liberty Lobby' 30 Years Later, who must offer to pay the funeral expenses of several.
He was outright lying about being Signaled first, and his subsequent logical response of trying to hold fire, and explanation why!

Um, no.

If anything, he's testimony at the time is suspect because at the time, he was a commissioned officer and told what the official government line was. IN the years since, he came out and admitted what really happened.

The Zionists are not America's friends. They play us for chumps, whether it be blowing up the Liberty or sending shitball Jonathan Pollard to steal our secrets.

Not to mention all the other investigations along with some 'ooops' false 'gotcha' attempts.

Except the other investigations were - wait for it - Bullshit.

This was the pre-Watergate government lying to the American people, just like it lied about Vietnam and the dangers of nuclear testing.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Are you a Zionist as well as a state loving ‘historian?’ How do you write a book about FDR’s deceit at Pearl Harbor, yet believe the government, politicians, and corporate media on every other major event?

I take every government explanation of an event on a case-by-case basis. I reject a number of government and corporate-media explanations of events, but I do not reject all of them. I judge each explanation on its merits.

In some cases, there are conflicting "government" explanations of an event, such as the JFK assassination, where the Warren Commission posited a lone gunman and no conspiracy while the House Select Committee on Assassinations posited two gunmen and a conspiracy. I accept the conspiracy view of the JFK assassination.

Similarly, sometimes there are conflicting "corporate media" explanations of an event. Corporate news outlets are not always monolithic in how they explain an event.

I accept the government and corporate-media explanation of the USS Liberty incident because the evidence overwhelmingly, compellingly shows the explanation is correct. I accept the government and corporate-media version of 9/11 and reject the 9/11 Truther conspiracy theories because I find the Truther theories to be obscenely absurd. I accept the government and corporate media explanation of the Holocaust because the evidence proves beyond any rational doubt that it is correct.

On the other hand, I reject the government's explanation of TWA Flight 800 because it is ludicrous and farcical.

 

[JoeB131]

In some cases, there are conflicting "government" explanations of an event, such as the JFK assassination, where the Warren Commission posited a lone gunman and no conspiracy while the House Select Committee on Assassinations posited two gunmen and a conspiracy. I accept the conspiracy view of the JFK assassination.

Then you are a bigger idiot than I think you are. The HSCA only put a last minute comments about two gunmen based on an audio recording that surfaced. Later analysis of that recording found it had nothing to do with JFK's shooting.

On the other hand, I reject the government's explanation of TWA Flight 800 because it is ludicrous and farcical.

What, a complicated piece of machinery failed due to poor maintenance or mechanical failure? Why, that's just crazy talk.

I accept the government and corporate-media explanation of the USS Liberty incident because the evidence overwhelmingly, compellingly shows the explanation is correct.

Actually, the evidence kind of indicates the opposite. Three separate attacks on a clearly marked American ship.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Then you are a bigger idiot than I think you are. The HSCA only put a last minute comments about two gunmen based on an audio recording that surfaced. Later analysis of that recording found it had nothing to do with JFK's shooting.

You are at least 30 years behind the information curve. Your nonsense about the HSCA is based on lies spread by Warren Commission apologists and was specifically refuted by the HSCA's chief counsel, G. Robert Blakey.

As for the audio recording (the Dallas police dictabelt recording), I know you know nothing about it other than what you've skimmed from some superficial website blurb, but, FYI, recent research by BBN acoustical scientists has established that the recording was made in Dealey Plaza during the assassination and that it contains at least four gunshot impulses, one of which can be traced back to the grassy knoll via echo-pattern correlation. For the benefit others, and for you if you by chance gather up the nerve to actually do some balanced research:

The HSCA's Acoustical Evidence: Proof of a Second Gunman

What, a complicated piece of machinery failed due to poor maintenance or mechanical failure? Why, that's just crazy talk.

What pitiful, uninformed polemic. Here, too, I know you know nothing about TWA 800 except what little you've skimmed from superficial website blurbs. You know that the NTSB's chief TWA 800 investigator, the guy who was in charge of determining the cause of the explosion, has utterly repudiated the government's mechanical-failure explanation, right? (LINK; LINK) You know that never before or since in the history of aviation has a Boeing 747, or any other commercial airliner, exploded in mid-air from an alleged fuel-tank spark, right? You know that the NTSB investigators were never able to duplicate this alleged fuel-tank spark, and later tests proved equally problematic for the government's absurd theory, right? (LINK; LINK) No, you don't.

How about if you tackle the evidence I present on my TWA 800 website and then start a separate thread on the subject, hey?

Actually, the evidence kind of indicates the opposite. Three separate attacks on a clearly marked American ship.

Actually, every single historian who has examined the USS Liberty incident, and every single government investigation of the incident, has concluded the attack was an obvious and explainable accident. Only the understandably embittered surviving crew members and fringe anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists still peddle your view of the incident. The problem is that you are immune to persuasion because you are an avowed, proud anti-Semite and Israel hater who routinely parrots neo-Nazi/ISIS/Hamas propaganda about Jews and Israel.

 

[JoeB131]

You are at least 30 years behind the information curve. Your nonsense about the HSCA is based on lies spread by Warren Commission apologists and was specifically refuted by the HSCA's chief counsel, G. Robert Blakey.

As for the audio recording (the Dallas police dictabelt recording), I know you know nothing about it other than what you've skimmed from some superficial website blurb, but, FYI, recent research by BBN acoustical scientists has established that the recording was made in Dealey Plaza during the assassination and that it contains at least four gunshot impulses, one of which can be traced back to the grassy knoll via echo-pattern correlation. For the benefit others, and for you if you by chance gather up the nerve to actually do some balanced research:

I actually looked up the Dictabelt thing, and one of the first things that comes up is one of your crazy Manifestos.

The United States Department of Justice reviewed the HSCA report and the National Academy of Science's study of the sound evidence. It reported to the Judiciary Committee on March 28, 1988, and rebuked the HSCA's conclusion of a probable conspiracy.

In 2003, an independent researcher named Michael O'Dell reported that both the National Academy and Dr. Thomas had used incorrect timelines because they subtracted time for repeated sections when the playback needle got stuck, but didn't realize that there were also forward skips. When corrected, these showed the impulses happened too late to be the real shots even with Thomas's alternative synchronization. He pointed out that the claim of a 95% or higher probability of a shot from the grassy knoll was logically incorrect. It was a 5% chance of finding a match in random noise and did not consider other possible causes.

A gentleman Named Sean Munger takes apart all the JFK Whackadoole conspiracy theories.


Here's the biggest problem with any JFK Conspiracy theory. Nobody would concoct such a vast conspiracy, and then enlist a complete loser like Lee Harvey Oswald to be a part of it.

What pitiful, uninformed polemic. Here, too, I know you know nothing about TWA 800 except what little you've skimmed from superficial website blurbs. You know that the NTSB's chief TWA 800 investigator, the guy who was in charge of determining the cause of the explosion, has utterly repudiated the government's mechanical-failure explanation, right?

https://www.faa.gov/lessons_learned/transport_airplane/accidents/N93119#:~:text=%22The%20National%20Transportation%20Safety%20Board,air%20mixture%20in%20the%20tank.

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) determined the cause of the accident was an explosion of the center wing fuel tank, resulting from ignition of the flammable fuel/air vapors in the tank. The source of ignition energy could not be determined with certainty. Of the ignition sources evaluated by the investigation, the most likely scenario was a combination of a latent fault of an electronic fuel quantity indicating system component within the fuel tank, combined with a short circuit or other fault outside of the tank. This scenario would result in a high-energy electrical arc within the fuel tank that could ignite the flammable vapors.

How about if you tackle the evidence I present on

Naw, guy, I only visit your whackadoodle website when I need a good laugh.

Actually, every single historian who has examined the USS Liberty incident, and every single government investigation of the incident, has concluded the attack was an obvious and explainable accident.

It was an obvious attack.