USMB Coffee Shop IV

[Ringel05]

Individuals indeed can be quite passionate, even stubborn or unbending in defending the point of view they have chosen whatever their motives. Some so desperately do not want to be wrong or have motive to push a concept or idea, they will ignore, resist or attack even the best, most logical and accurate arguments. The individual can plant the idea or discover the concept, but overall, society has to choose what it will accept as the norm.

Humankind has demonstrated over millennia that it not only can but does change. Each new religion brings its own customs, rules, laws. From a world of monarchal, imperial, totalitarian rule the USA was formed and forever changed opinions of what government must/should be for millions. Most of the world was able to give up draconian medical practices in favor of more scientific ones, switched from horse and buggy and sailing ships to mechanical transportation, etc.

I'm just saying that I think our knowledge and technology is still in its infancy compared to what there is still for us as a species to know and learn.

Looks like were approaching this from two related but fundamentally different aspects. I'm referring to human psychology in belief systems which doesn't change, appears your referring to material progress which changes all the time and is easily accepted by most.

 

[Foxfyre]

Looks like were approaching this from two related but fundamentally different aspects. I'm referring to human psychology in belief systems which doesn't change, appears your referring to material progress which changes all the time and is easily accepted by most.

Both I think. Like peoples attitudes about what government can and should be was forever changed with the experiment of the U.S. Constitution that for the first time in human history trusted the people to govern themselves. And societal views on marriage, morality, religious views etc. are constantly changing, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst depending on how each individual looks at it or believes.

There are currently many universal debates going on re everything from abortion to gun control to vaccine mandates to sexual orientation/gender identification or whatever as has always been the case with humankind. We all hope society as a whole will come out on the side we personally prefer or believe. Sometimes that happens. Sometimes it doesn't. But humankind does change in most respects as the years go by. And some will resist that change more rigorously than others as has always been the case.

Having said that I do not ever see bad choices as inevitable and believe good people should fight for what they know is the better, more righteous, more beneficial choice.

 

[Ringel05]

A little of both I think. Like peoples attitudes about what government can and should be was forever changed with the experiment of the U.S. Constitution that for the first time in human history trusted the people to govern themselves. And societal views on marriage, morality, religious views etc. are constantly changing, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst depending on how each individual looks at it or believes.

There are currently many universal debates going on re everything from abortion to gun control to vaccine mandates to sexual orientation/gender identification or whatever as has always been the case with humankind. We all hope society as a whole will come out on the side we personally prefer or believe. Sometimes that happens. Sometimes it doesn't. But humankind does change in most respects as the years go by.

The real difference is you look at this optimistically, history and psychology makes me more of a pessimist.

 

[Dragonlady]

Looks like were approaching this from two related but fundamentally different aspects. I'm referring to human psychology in belief systems which doesn't change, appears your referring to material progress which changes all the time and is easily accepted by most.

Belief systems change over time as well. If humans are 6000 years old, consider that we started out living in caves, with the strongest hunter being the chief, and men fighting one another to be the chief. They worshipped the sun, the ocean, and other natural elements, and traded in food, crafts and medicinal herbs. Over centuries, we developed belief systems based on honour, dignity, and mutual respect. We've set up systems of rights, of laws, and an assortment of belief systems, all of which have evolved as we've evolved.

We've tried to learn from our past mistakes. But recently the world is backsliding into xenophobia, paranoia, and fear. The fear of an unknown future is strong and we're at one of those turning points in history, both because of climate change and the pandemic, when our better angels can prevail and the human race can emerge stronger and wiser for our shared trauma, or we can devolve into fascism and nationalistic fervor.

 

[Ringel05]

Belief systems change over time as well. If humans are 6000 years old, consider that we started out living in caves, with the strongest hunter being the chief, and men fighting one another to be the chief. They worshipped the sun, the ocean, and other natural elements, and traded in food, crafts and medicinal herbs. Over centuries, we developed belief systems based on honour, dignity, and mutual respect. We've set up systems of rights, of laws, and an assortment of belief systems, all of which have evolved as we've evolved.

We've tried to learn from our past mistakes. But recently the world is backsliding into xenophobia, paranoia, and fear. The fear of an unknown future is strong and we're at one of those turning points in history, both because of climate change and the pandemic, when our better angels can prevail and the human race can emerge stronger and wiser for our shared trauma, or we can devolve into fascism and nationalistic fervor.

I never said any differently.

 

[Foxfyre]

The real difference is you look at this optimistically, history and psychology makes me more of a pessimist.

Maybe. I am an optimist as I would like to think that we will become a better version of what we are now as a species. I am a pretty dedicated historian too though and that informs me of how far we have come. And as Dragonlady suggests, how far we sometimes regress. Our strength is that we are not ruled by mostly instinct but rather can wonder about, care about, like, dislike, fear, want, hope for etc. what is outside our personal experience and we are the only species with capacity to redirect or change things for the benefit of the common good for our own society and that of others. The downside is that we also have the capacity to make some very bad choices about all that.

 

[Ringel05]

Maybe. I am an optimist as I would like to think that we will become a better version of what we are now as a species. I am a pretty dedicated historian too though and that informs me of how far we have come. And as Dragonlady suggests, how far we sometimes regress. Our strength is that we are not ruled by mostly instinct but rather can wonder about, care about, like, dislike, fear, want, hope for etc. what is outside our personal experience and we are the only species with capacity to redirect or change things for the benefit of the common good for our own society and that of others. The downside is that we also have the capacity to make some very bad choices about all that.

History alone only shows us the progression of humankind but not the complete, underlying motivating factors, that is the realm of psychology so in order to truly understand us throughout history we need to understand the motivating factors in total. Personally I don't believe we will ever reach the level where there is no more war, no more poor, no more greed and avarice, no more hate and killing. At least not until the end of time.

 

[Foxfyre]

History alone only shows us the progression of humankind but not the complete, underlying motivating factors, that is the realm of psychology so in order to truly understand us throughout history we need to understand the motivating factors in total. Personally I don't believe we will ever reach the level where there is no more war, no more poor, no more greed and avarice, no more hate and killing. At least not until the end of time.

We aren't really that far apart. If we go with the JudeoChristian faith, the Bible says there will always be wars and rumors of wars. If we go with Marxism, Utopia is possible, but history informs us that human nature is reliable to short circuit that. And I think we can also utilize history to understand the motivations, i.e. desire for freedom/liberty, money, power, control, ability to vanquish those who would harm us or force us to live/behave in ways we would not choose for ourselves, the innate love and protective instincts of our children/family/friends, a sense of justice, anger/frustration with injustice, desire for security, peace, harmony, prosperity, cooperation, well being etc.

 

[Dragonlady]

Looks like were approaching this from two related but fundamentally different aspects. I'm referring to human psychology in belief systems which doesn't change, appears your referring to material progress which changes all the time and is easily accepted by most.

Human psychology has developed and changed as well. Our nomadic forebearers would be utterly overwhelmed by life in a big city today, but human beings have adapted to that kind of life, very well. I don't have the resistance to change that you have. I enjoy it.

Tomorrow morning I'm going to the Snowflake Christmas Craft Sale at the United Church with my friend. Everyone in town will be there but they put on an amazing sale at that Church. This is the first public event in town since the pandemic began.

Two summers with no church suppers, no euchre games, no fall fairs or summer festivals. Every little town has a summer party weekend and there's been none of that for two summers. I've missed them all so much.

I'm so looking forward to tomorrow.

 

[Ringel05]

Human psychology has developed and changed as well. Our nomadic forebearers would be utterly overwhelmed by life in a big city today, but human beings have adapted to that kind of life, very well. I don't have the resistance to change that you have. I enjoy it.

Tomorrow morning I'm going to the Snowflake Christmas Craft Sale at the United Church with my friend. Everyone in town will be there but they put on an amazing sale at that Church. This is the first public event in town since the pandemic began.

Two summers with no church suppers, no euchre games, no fall fairs or summer festivals. Every little town has a summer party weekend and there's been none of that for two summers. I've missed them all so much.

I'm so looking forward to tomorrow.

I never said I had a resistance to change, I said that it's basically built into our psyche. I should have also said it's situational and cultural. I also never said it can't be overcome. I'm talking about basic psychology here which does not change but can be overcome by some sooner or mostly all later to differing degrees. I'm trying to figure out how to put this so you're not getting me wrong and confusing what I'm pointing out with other related but different aspects of human psychology.
While technology and science has changed our daily lives and our cultures adapted over time our basic natures remain the same. Look how easily people can be "worked up" into nearly violent or complete violent behavior, how given the right circumstances normal people can become monsters overnight. We practice othering to varying degrees, more so (with most) when we feel our norms being challenged or torn down. I am speaking in general human terms, not specifically my experiences.
To the best of our knowledge (historically speaking) there has been almost no deadly conflict going on somewhere since the beginning of recorded history, it has been estimated that the US alone has been at war for 93% of our existence.

 

[Foxfyre]

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

 

[Dajjal]

A couple of years ago I posted here about investing in Gold coins. In the end I bought 21 gold sovereigns for £280 each. I expected the value to go up and today I thought I would buy another coin with some spare money I have. So I went to a jewelers shop and asked them the current price.
They said they cost £400. I was taken aback and declined to buy one. But the good news is my coins are now worth £120 more each than I paid. I just wish I had bought more of them at the time, as my money in the bank makes no interest, but the value of gold continues to rise.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes. Good news and missed opportunity. I turned down AT&T stock when it was $9.19.

 

[beautress]

View attachment 563611

I better not try that. I'd lose my investment in knee replacement surgery.

 

[Dragonlady]

History alone only shows us the progression of humankind but not the complete, underlying motivating factors, that is the realm of psychology so in order to truly understand us throughout history we need to understand the motivating factors in total. Personally I don't believe we will ever reach the level where there is no more war, no more poor, no more greed and avarice, no more hate and killing. At least not until the end of time.

I completely agree with that analysis, but we have come a long, long way since we set on the road to becoming the dominant species in the world. There will always be the push/pull of honest decent folk, and those who are driven by greed, hate, or fear, or driven mad by circumstances beyond their control, or dishonest leaders.

The times of greatest peril are when there is something like this pandemic, which unhinges normal behaviour.

Yes. Good news and missed opportunity. I turned down AT&T stock when it was $9.19.

My father-in-law put his entire life's savings in General Motors when they went bankrupt in 2009. We all begged him not to put ALL of his money in one stock, but as a GM retiree, he said he was protecting his pension. The stock was selling for $8 and change. Today, these stocks are worth $62.75 apiece US. and there's 20% premium on exchanging US Dollars for CDN. Money was at par when he bought the stock. Today, that stock is worth more than half a million dollars. Dad is still living, and he still owns the stock.

 

[Mindful]

Following our crazy meet-up in Greece, daughter is off to Thailand with her boyfriend, with a clean bill of health, for a long sojourn and rest there.

While I am jumping through hoops to get to the US at the end of the month.

Hope all is well with everyone during this bonkers time in all our lives.

 

[Oddball]

A lucid dreaming article came across my feed today....Hope y'all like it...

Can lucid dreaming help us understand consciousness?

The ability to control our dreams is a skill that more of us are seeking to acquire for sheer pleasure. But if taken seriously, scientists believe it could unlock new secrets of the mind

www.theguardian.com

 

[beautress]

My Closing statement for Veterans Day program at local K-12 Program.

In the 11th Month

On the 11th day

At the 11th hour

The Guns fell silent

The war to end all wars which had caused 20 million deaths and 21 million wounded was over and Veterans Day had it’s beginnings.

We celebrate today to honor those Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors and Marines who all took this solemn oath.

I Do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies Foreign and Domestic, That I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and I will obey The orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me; according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So Help me God.
Many who have taken that oath have paid the ultimate price, a price all Veterans have been willing to pay if called upon.

From Lexington, Concord, and Yorktown, New Orleans The Argon, the Shores of Normandy, Wake Island, Tarawa Atoll, Ques-an, Saigon, Baghdad, Fallujah , Kunar Province and Kabul. Strange and somewhat exotic names of far way places, Yet American Veterans were there

Many Veterans are still deployed keeping the peace at home and allowing us to pursue the American Dream. There are 6 Lowellville Veterans on Active Duty today.

Today I take this opportunity to thank my Brothers and Sisters in Arms for their service.
I look out and see the Proud students of our little village and I thank you for the Honors you have shown us this day. On behalf of all the Veterans of Lowellville, Thank You.

Ollie, I was looking back this evening and your post just melted my heart. Most of my ancestors served except for clergy, butvin our family tradition women did not serve in the military. Even so we were taught deepest regards for those who put all on the line for us in war. I love my family dearly and now, more than ever. Thanks for making my day as you have so many times in the last 10 years of being here as freedombecki and now as beautress. I thank God for all those who stepped up to the plate and served the American people and I know some never speak of their time in the service because of painful and inoperable shrapnel that never got taken out. Or so much pain from losing dear friends and those who perished saving them from harm so they could take up the banner and win the next round and the next and... other wounds that caused trouble in later life. No words can ever express enough thanks for all those who pledged their very lives for our security.

But for what it's worth. thanks.

 

[Foxfyre]

A lucid dreaming article came across my feed today....Hope y'all like it...

Can lucid dreaming help us understand consciousness?

The ability to control our dreams is a skill that more of us are seeking to acquire for sheer pleasure. But if taken seriously, scientists believe it could unlock new secrets of the mind

www.theguardian.com

gallantwarrior is our Coffee shopper who specializes in lucid dreaming. I do it sometimes and sometimes it is great or at least interesting. Often however it can be frustrating when I just can't manage to make it come out like I want it or I keep getting sidetracked by something. And yeah, I'm sure there's a subliminal message in there for me about something, but I don't worry about it a whole lot.

Speaking of gallantwarrior, he hasn't posted for quite some time now. Hope he is okay and wish he would check in.