Universal Basic Income: Biden's Best Bet?

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Toddsterpatriot

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You can very easily.... EASILY live a 1960s life style on minimum wage today.
Not where I live.
As I recall, in 1967 the California minimum wage was $1.75 a hour; my rent was $75 a month in Santa Monica which was (and is) a relatively high rent area. My car was 7 years old, and a single minimum wage job allowed me to pay it off and maintain it. I haven't been able to afford a car since 1993. My home technology was limited to a landline and a radio. Today in California the minimum wage is $12 an hour, and it would barely cover the market rent on any apartment similar to the one I lived in half-a-century ago.
Nothing like government regulations to boost your rent, eh?
 

hadit

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Irrelevant to the point that UC does not apply to those who are not laid off from a job and you should stop acting like it does. It's also irrelevant to the point that it would take far too much money to give everyone $15/hr just for existing unless you're willing to scrap all the other welfare programs at the same time.
Due to unequal protection of the law. Why are you for inefficient less market friendly public policies but allege you are not really like that in Socialism threads?
That's it, you're done. You won't explain why it's unequal protection of the law, it's been explained to you way too many times that it's not and you still are such a dogmatic bot that you keep reiterating the same stupid, stupid, stupid talking points with nothing whatsoever to back them up. All you have is fallacy after fallacy. You are simply wrong and unable to acknowledge it. You are without doubt the worst of the bots on the net.
 

hadit

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No, a teenager living at home and just wanting to get a foot in the door in the job market does not need to be paid a living wage. As for school and training, many have gotten that while working a job, or even more than one. It can be done.
I agree to disagree. It is about Persons not minors for the bottom line.

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
No, bot, you are wrong. Why should teenagers living at home be paid a living wage?
 

Andylusion

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That's true of debit cards as well.

I have two card right now. I have a paypal card which is VISA, and a MasterCard. The MasterCard is a debit card, that is through my bank. And VISA Paypal, is connected to my bank account.

Both cards are covered by VISA and Mastercard. Both of them have the same protections as any other VISA and Mastercard.

Now, I know there are a few bank debit cards, that are not VISA or Mastercard, and then you'd be right.

But most have the same exact protections.

Further, my bank itself also has fraud protection. Meaning in the highly unlikely event that VISA and MasterCard contested the claims of Fraud, my bank itself would cover fraudulent transactions.
It depends on how you're setup. My debit is through my checking account. If somebody gets my credit card number (and they have in the past) I simply get another credit card with a new number,. If somebody gets my debit card, they have to change my entire checking account. That means all the checks I bought have to be destroyed and replaced. I use checks often because I like to have a paper trail of every tax deductible item or potential deductible item. So I have to buy new checks, unable to use my account until those new checks come in, have to change my routing number for my federal and state tax returns since I do that electronically. It would just be a pain in the ass.

I don't like using my card in stores, especially at places like drive-thru windows where the card is out of my sight. They busted one guy at Burger King who had his cell phone by the register, and when he got a card at the window, he would snap pictures of the front and back of it. People can do the same standing in line at the store. A lot of people are messing around with their phone while waiting in line to kill time. You don't know if they're playing a video game or taking a video of you using your card.
If somebody gets my debit card, they have to change my entire checking account.

I have never had that problem. My debit card is an entirely different number, and they simply shut down that card. I don't know. That's strange. Never heard of that.

If that's how your bank operates, then yeah, I would either use a pre-paid card, or I would get one like my paypal card, that is a pass-through.

I'll still never get a credit card again. Those things are like snakes. The more you think have the snake by the head, the more painful it will be when it bites you.

I'll never pay interest or fees to a bank again, if I can help it.
 

Andylusion

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Whatever the nature of these women's relationship — whether people agree with it or not or if God hates fags — it "shouldn't" be cause to withhold the dividend, but denied is denied, and there is no appeal at that office.
Conservatives often have difficulty understanding the concept of equality:

Alaska’s Discrimination Against a Gay Couple Shows the Continued Threats to Marriage Equality

"More than four years after the Supreme Court made marriage equality the law of the land, Alaska appears to be engaged in flagrant discrimination against same-sex couples."
The government doesn't have the constitutional authority to dictate to states, how they treat marriage.

Sorry, but you don't get to be dictator over the entire country, in the name of equality. Especially after spending 4 years claiming that Trump was a dictator, and now here you are complaining that the Federal Government isn't engaged in dictatorship.
 

Andylusion

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Government dependency is always used to control people.
Southern slave owners used public courts to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act; do you blame capitalism or government?
Capitalism has nothing to do with slavery.

Capitalism - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Capitalism


Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.

Where in that definition do you see "Deny people as humans with right, claim as property and use as slaves"?

It's not there. No definition of Capitalism anywhere has anything to do with slavery.

You might as well have asked "Southern slave owners used public courts to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act; do you blame photosynthesis or government?"

Neither photosynthesis or capitalism, have anything to do with slavery.

Slavery was universal around the entire world, and throughout all human history.

What is interesting, is that you yourself advocate for slavery routinely.

You advocated for a wealth tax for example, and fuel taxes, and income taxes, and corporate taxes.

What is all that? You are demanding that other people work, for your benefit.

Explain to me how you are any different than a slave owner having slaves work for their benefit?

Tax Freedom Day is a significant date for taxpayers and lawmakers because it represents how long Americans as a whole have to work in order to pay the nation’s tax burden. April 16th.​

That's 106 days I work as a slave for the benefit of people living off of government.
I work 106 days worth of labor a year, that all goes to people who live off my hard work, that I get zero benefit from.

You advocate for slavery every single thread you are in.
 

Andylusion

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No. I mean slavery under socialism, where everyone is essentially property of the state.
The means of production are "owned" by society under socialism, unlike capitalism where a few rich individuals depend upon a reserve army of labor to maintain their profit margins.

Socialism. - ppt download
That's false. Under socialism you are in fact OWNED, by the state. If you refused to work in Russia, they sent you to the gulags, and if you refused to work in the gulags, the soldiers beat you, or killed you.

Roughly 60 million people died under forced labor.

https://www.amazon.com/Gulag-Archipelago-Aleksandr-Solzhenitsyn/dp/1843430851&tag=ff0d01-20

Read Gulag Archipelago. Learn something.

Under Capitalism, the rich do not own any labor. They must purchase labor.
You own your own labor.

That's why you can start a company and become wealthy, is because you own your own labor. No one else.

1800-GOT-JUNK was started by a high school student, with a $900 pickup truck.


Chris Gardner started off homeless, and now runs a multi-billion dollar Wall St firm.

Why didn't few rich, control the labor of these poor people? Why did they allow them to become millionaires and billionaires?

They didn't... because they have freedom under capitalism to do anything they want with their own labor.

If I don't go to work tomorrow........ not a thing is going to happen. They won't show up with guns. They can't force me back to my desk. Nothing.

That's Capitalism.

Under socialism, the Chinese were born in the rice field, lived in the rice field, and died in that rice field. They were born impoverished, lived impoverished, and died impoverished.

And the same is true anywhere that doesn't have clear Capitalist property rights and economic freedom.
 

Andylusion

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Communism is Satanic Oppression of Freedom of Choice.
Would you say "Freedom of Choice" is more closely associated with winning the Popular Vote?

Freedom has less to do with picking with incompetent fool sits in an office somewhere, and a ton more about you being able to use the money you earn, how you please.

Being able to choose which buffoon gets lobby money, and uses stimulus pay outs to Unions, and Green Energy supporters, and other back room deals, doesn't allow you to improve your life.

You being able to have the freedom to create a business, and not have your business regulated out of existence, or taxed until you can't make a profit, is what real freedom is.
 

Andylusion

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“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.”
― James Madison
With all due respect to Madison, I don't think he had a clue about how a sovereign currency provider doesn't need taxpayers or bond markets to fund government:
The MMT Debate With Dean Baker & Randall Wray
Again, every single time that government prints money, and just hands it out, the results have been devastating.

Supply and Demand effects currency itself. If you jack up the supply, with without a comparable increase in demand, the result is lower value.

Screenshot_2020-11-26 Venezuela inflation - Google Search.png


That's 14 Million Bolivar for chicken.

Every single country that just "we don't need to borrow, and don't need to tax... we can just print money and get everything we want".... has resulted in ruining the country.
 

Andylusion

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Wrong the highway system was created for war against the USSR.
The National Interstate and Defense Highways Act was authorized to enhance after-tax profits of major gasoline and motor vehicle producers as opposed to the US military occupation of South Korea which was implemented to provoke war against the USSR.

United States Army Military Government in Korea - Wikipedia
We left Vietnam, and the socialists murdered hundreds of thousands of people.


Screenshot_2020-11-26 vietnamese boat people - Google Search.png


Thanks to the wise and heroic efforts of our government in South Korea....

Screenshot_2020-11-26 South Korea - Google Search.png


Freedom and Capitalism has resulted in South Koreans live a 1st world life, that Vietnam could only dream of... and North Koreans are willing to risk death for.

Now I want to clarify, the reasons South Korea is wealthy, is not because of the US. We only gave them the freedom of a capitalist system. They are the ones who built South Korea into a wealthy 1st world country. We only prevented socialism from slaughtering them all.

Under Socialism.....



Screenshot_2020-11-26 Stock Photo - North Korean woman collecting grass to eat in a field, Nor...jpg


Yeah, she might be eating grass... but at least there are no parasite capitalists in this Socialist Utopia of yours.
 

Andylusion

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So a couple of problems. First, you claim that raising the minimum wage will restore bargaining power to workers.
Much of the argument supporting minimum wage is its ability to lift workers out of poverty, and it also has the potential to influence the relative bargaining power between non-union workers and firms which was one of minimum wage's main purposes. Do you imagine workers had more bargaining power before 1938?
The only way to really get out of poverty, is to move up the income ladder.

You won't do that living on the minimum wage. No matter what.

I'm not sure why this is a hard concept. If you raise the minimum wage, prices will adjust. They always do. Every time you increase the minimum wage, price go up.

Why do you think in 2006 they are clamoring from a $7 minimum wage.... and then instantly when they go that $7.25 minimum wage, they clamoring for a $15 minimum wage?

Going from $5.25 to $7.25 was a huge increase. Yet as soon as they got it, they demand an even larger increase. Shouldn't all of those people now with much bigger paychecks have been ecstatic for it, instead of immediately starting "Fight for $15"?

Why didn't that work? Because prices increased with the minimum wage.

If you go back and look at Fast Food menus from 2006 and before, and then look at them in 2011... the "value meals" went from being about $5, to being about $8.

Years ago, there was a website that had menus from before, and after the minimum wage hike, showing the price changes. I don't know where that site went now.

Prices go up. Why do prices go up? Two reason, both connected to the minimum wage. A: The cost of labor is usually the most expensive part of running a business. That cost must be passed onto the consumer. B: When everyone has more money, demand goes up.

You know how supply and demand works. If supply stays the same, and demand goes up, prices goes up.

So it doesn't lift anyone out of poverty, and never has. Never will either.

What lifts people out of poverty, is them moving up the income ladder. Not government mandating it, but you yourself, moving your butt up the ladder.

Find something more valuable to do. Get a skill. Learn a craft. Get a degree. Open your own business. Or even move up the corporate ladder where you are. I know a guy that started off making $8/hour as a auto parts cashier, and now runs a store, and makes $60K a year or more (depending on the store profit bonus).

Do you imagine workers had more bargaining power before 1938?

That's impossible to tell, because there are different labor markets.

For example, I know engineers that have literally dictated terms to their employer. Honestly, one guy said he wanted to be able to remote work from home, and have a month off a year, because his wife's family was in another country, and the company gave him everything he wanted.

But if you are talking about low-skill or no-skill markets, no, they ave much less bargaining power, and they never will.... because we have a surplus of people in that market.

Companies don't need to negotiate with a Union, because they can and will replace every single one of you, or simply shut down the entire plant, and reopen it elsewhere. Hostess, MG Metals, the former GM plants, many examples.

No amount of laws is going to change that. There are simply too many people who have low/no skills.

But if you are high skilled, you have more bargaining power today, than ever before in US history. If you are a quality tradesman, you are in demand. You can set your schedule, and determine your own prices, and all kinds of things.

Now this is all generalities... because obviously if you are high skilled, but you are arrogant, or a jerk, or you don't do a good job, then yeah you'll still have crappy treatment.

But high skilled, high quality, hard working employees... are in such high demand, that yeah if you are really good, the power is in your court for sure.
 

Andylusion

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You can very easily.... EASILY live a 1960s life style on minimum wage today.
Not where I live.
As I recall, in 1967 the California minimum wage was $1.75 a hour; my rent was $75 a month in Santa Monica which was (and is) a relatively high rent area. My car was 7 years old, and a single minimum wage job allowed me to pay it off and maintain it. I haven't been able to afford a car since 1993. My home technology was limited to a landline and a radio. Today in California the minimum wage is $12 an hour, and it would barely cover the market rent on any apartment similar to the one I lived in half-a-century ago.
Right, but you are in a socialist hell hole. Yeah, in California you can't live on nearly anything.

But that is because you voted for socialists idiots that ruined your cities.


You, and those like you, voted for socialism in California, through controls and regulations.

You screwed yourself.

This is why I'm entirely against government bailing out California. You did this to yourself.
 

danielpalos

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Government dependency is always used to control people.
Southern slave owners used public courts to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act; do you blame capitalism or government?
Capitalism has nothing to do with slavery.

Capitalism - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Capitalism


Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.

Where in that definition do you see "Deny people as humans with right, claim as property and use as slaves"?

It's not there. No definition of Capitalism anywhere has anything to do with slavery.

You might as well have asked "Southern slave owners used public courts to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act; do you blame photosynthesis or government?"

Neither photosynthesis or capitalism, have anything to do with slavery.

Slavery was universal around the entire world, and throughout all human history.

What is interesting, is that you yourself advocate for slavery routinely.

You advocated for a wealth tax for example, and fuel taxes, and income taxes, and corporate taxes.

What is all that? You are demanding that other people work, for your benefit.

Explain to me how you are any different than a slave owner having slaves work for their benefit?

Tax Freedom Day is a significant date for taxpayers and lawmakers because it represents how long Americans as a whole have to work in order to pay the nation’s tax burden. April 16th.​

That's 106 days I work as a slave for the benefit of people living off of government.
I work 106 days worth of labor a year, that all goes to people who live off my hard work, that I get zero benefit from.

You advocate for slavery every single thread you are in.
The South used Government to wage a war to allow Capitalists to do just that, no statutory minimum wage to keep persons as slaves and private property.
 

danielpalos

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You can very easily.... EASILY live a 1960s life style on minimum wage today.
Not where I live.
As I recall, in 1967 the California minimum wage was $1.75 a hour; my rent was $75 a month in Santa Monica which was (and is) a relatively high rent area. My car was 7 years old, and a single minimum wage job allowed me to pay it off and maintain it. I haven't been able to afford a car since 1993. My home technology was limited to a landline and a radio. Today in California the minimum wage is $12 an hour, and it would barely cover the market rent on any apartment similar to the one I lived in half-a-century ago.
Right, but you are in a socialist hell hole. Yeah, in California you can't live on nearly anything.

But that is because you voted for socialists idiots that ruined your cities.


You, and those like you, voted for socialism in California, through controls and regulations.

You screwed yourself.

This is why I'm entirely against government bailing out California. You did this to yourself.
Here is the the problem:
People being able to afford our first world economy means more people able to afford housing costs and more builders being able to build or upgrade more housing. What do landlords believe the minimum wage should be?
 

Uncensored2008

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lol. I gainsay your contention. Want to argue about it?
I've lectured you on economics on dozens of occasions. University of Phoenix used to pay me to lecture morons like you on basic economic principles, no one pays me to educate your ignorant ass so I shan't bother.

You have never read Marx, despite your discipleship to his ideals. You've never read Jean Baptist Say, Adam Smith, John Maynard Keynes, Milton Friedman, Murray Rothbard, Ludwig Von Mises. You have a sum total of zero understanding of any facet or school of economic thought.

You've read snippets of hate rants from that drooling moron Paul Krugman (the day we all took him down on his Yahoo board was glorious, he ran with his tail between his legs to never return.) and think it makes you knowledgeable.

There are people here with a solid grasp of economics, some who I abjectly disagree with.

You though are a clown with literally zero knowledge of what you are talking about.
 

Uncensored2008

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Much of the argument supporting minimum wage is its ability to lift workers out of poverty, and it also has the potential to influence the relative bargaining power between non-union workers and firms which was one of minimum wage's main purposes. Do you imagine workers had more bargaining power before 1938?
After 90 years of complete and utter failure to do so, that myth is busted.
 

Uncensored2008

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Not where I live.
As I recall, in 1967 the California minimum wage was $1.75 a hour; my rent was $75 a month in Santa Monica which was (and is) a relatively high rent area. My car was 7 years old, and a single minimum wage job allowed me to pay it off and maintain it. I haven't been able to afford a car since 1993. My home technology was limited to a landline and a radio. Today in California the minimum wage is $12 an hour, and it would barely cover the market rent on any apartment similar to the one I lived in half-a-century ago.
Utter fucking bullshit.

Minimum wage was $1.40 in California in 1967. Rent on an average 1 bedroom apartment in the Los Angeles area ran $225 per month. Santa Monica was nothing special in those days unless you lived on the water. No doubt you had roommates and your share might have been lower, but your dishonesty is meant to paint a false canvas.

$1.40 in 1967 is equivalent to $10.94 - California minimum wage is $12 per hour.

Also, if you were in a service industry that provided tips, minimum in California was $0.65 per hour.

 

Uncensored2008

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Nothing like government regulations to boost your rent, eh?
I was born in Sierra Madre, which is next to Pasadena. I now live in Yorba Linda, which is next to Anaheim. George is lying about a California that never was. He and 10 buddies got a shack and his share was $75 a month. The rent even on a shack wasn't anywhere near that low. Probably one of those shit hole houses by Santa Monica city college.
 
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