Two Gifts To A Nation In Denial

[Silhouette]

The energy used to produce the hydrolysis is greater than the mechanical energy provided by the engine using the hydrogen generated, which is reduced even further by the losses in the alternator that produces the electricity for the hydrolysis.

What you are proposing violates the basic law of physics of conservation of energy. It does not work.

This is really no big secret deal, even a talented high school student could cobble up one of these "engines" as a science project.

That will come as quite a surprise to the people already driving hydrolosis vehicles around the world. Beware of cars with fuel tanks instead of the on-demand hydrolysis units. One's with tanks will be conveniently exploded to publicize "how dangerous these cars are: ie: you shouldn't buy them". On-demand hydrogen cars have no storage of hydrogen and no "bombs" on board the car; though gasoline tanks are also bombs too as you see in the news from time to time...

Here are some hydrogen cars that run off water for sale today. 2015 is slated for the really big release of hydrogen fueled cars. It's very simple, you have an electric battery just like regular cars that starts the hydrolysis and the car's combustion begins. As it runs, a second alternator using remarkably little current, so less of a drag on the powerful hydrogen combustion motor, keeps the electroylisis going on-demand. It uses less power than many of these boom box sound systems you see punks driving those big speakers with. And far less power than all the smog belts and recirculators in conventional gas cars.

You'd think American car manufacturers would want to be on the cutting edge of this old science. But alas, no. Korea and Japan are the ones building these cars for 2015. "Strangely" [after designed-to-fail models like the toyota prototype I saw a picture of at a trade's fair in Las Vegas with a sign on the fuel tank saying "fuel tank"] hydrogen cars will be outlawed in the US.

You don't need to. On-demand hydrolysis won't explode like a hydrogen tank or a gasoline tank would...


First Mass-Produced Hydrogen Cars Roll Out | Popular Science

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Here are some hydrogen cars that run off water for sale today. 2015 is slated for the really big release of hydrogen fueled cars. It's very simple

Right. Today as in "over a year from now".

 

[Silhouette]

Check this out..lol.. Like Solyndra, big oil knows what the competition has in store so it talked Obama into "designed to fail' solar power plants, instead of ones that use solar concentrators on a linear grid close by.

The toyota model shown in Las Vegas has of course a body shot photo and the only other shot is this one with very conspicuous "hydrogen tank" on display. Later these tanks will be found to be dangerous and therefore "illegal" in the US..lol..

They won't show you the safe on-demand type. That you can bet on:

Toyota's hydrogen-powered car coming in 2015

They're on their way. If bigoil was smart, it would lobby congress for rights to all the filling stations. They could design hydrogen cars here to only run efficiently with a "certain type" of filtered seawater using a "special process" [ you know the drill..] Sure would help recover low-lying regions like most of Florida, New Orleans etc. if we made use of all those gasoline-caused polar ice meltwaters flooding all our coastal towns as we speak...

 

[Silhouette]

Why would anyone install a hydrogen tank when on-demand electrolyzers are availible?

 

[HenryBHough]

Think about the hydrogen tanks inside The Hindenburg. They weren't made of metal because the metals available at the time were too heavy or, when made thin enough, too porous.

They were made of cow gut. So much cow gut that, for a time, it was illegal to make sausage in Germany so the cow gut could be reserved to make the Zepplins that were used to bomb England.

OK, so science has improved metals technology but cow gut is still lighter and cheaper than metal. So.....will your hydrogen car have a cow-gut gas tank? If those things are going to be mass produced we'll need vastly more cows. Now, cows fart. Quietly but frequently and every puff is methane, a greenhouse gas. So your hydrogen car that you think will "save the planet" will do the opposite and make it stinky to boot.

But your faith will carry you through!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why would anyone install a hydrogen tank when on-demand electrolyzers are availible?

What?

 

[Silhouette]

Why would anyone install a hydrogen tank when on-demand electrolyzers are availible?

What?

Might want to catch up. We are talking about the hydrogen cars that run on water that are due to be released in 2015 en masse. Though there are already many around in other countries.

We were discussing how once water-cars reach the US, they will come with hydrogen tanks that will then be conveniently exploded and the cars dubbed "too dangerous" and thereby made illegal.

The remedy that already exists is to install an on demand electrolyzer with no storage tank.

And remember, gasoline tanks also explode. One explosion is as deadly as another. So, go figure.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why would anyone install a hydrogen tank when on-demand electrolyzers are availible?

What?

Might want to catch up. We are talking about the hydrogen cars that run on water that are due to be released in 2015 en masse. Though there are already many around in other countries.

We were discussing how once water-cars reach the US, they will come with hydrogen tanks that will then be conveniently exploded and the cars dubbed "too dangerous" and thereby made illegal.

The remedy that already exists is to install an on demand electrolyzer with no storage tank.

And remember, gasoline tanks also explode. One explosion is as deadly as another. So, go figure.

I am sorry, I live outside your head, not inside it. Out here there are no hydrogen powered cars that run on water, they all run on hydrogen. The reason for that is pretty simple, the laws of thermodynamics make it impossible to magically create energy.

 

[westwall]

Why would anyone install a hydrogen tank when on-demand electrolyzers are availible?

What?

Might want to catch up. We are talking about the hydrogen cars that run on water that are due to be released in 2015 en masse. Though there are already many around in other countries.

We were discussing how once water-cars reach the US, they will come with hydrogen tanks that will then be conveniently exploded and the cars dubbed "too dangerous" and thereby made illegal.

The remedy that already exists is to install an on demand electrolyzer with no storage tank.

And remember, gasoline tanks also explode. One explosion is as deadly as another. So, go figure.

Sounds GREAT. Please provide a link or two to a company where I can buy one of these systems.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Is this a redux of the cold fusion hoax?

 

[Silhouette]

Sounds GREAT. Please provide a link or two to a company where I can buy one of these systems.

OK, here are some:

Global Energy Devices | Home

HHO Dry Cell

Home Page

HHO Generators

On Demand Hydrogen Generator Kits For Cars - HHO Kits Direct

 

[westwall]

Sounds GREAT. Please provide a link or two to a company where I can buy one of these systems.

OK, here are some:

Global Energy Devices | Home

HHO Dry Cell

Home Page

HHO Generators

On Demand Hydrogen Generator Kits For Cars - HHO Kits Direct

Ummmm. Not one of those does what you claim. There is no on demand water powered vehicle for sale in any of those links. In fact, only one of the links actually has something you can buy, and that is an ADD ON to an existing internal combustion engine to supposedly make it more efficient.

There is no water powered vehicle for sale, for any amount of money, anywhere on the planet that I could find.

What gives?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What?

Might want to catch up. We are talking about the hydrogen cars that run on water that are due to be released in 2015 en masse. Though there are already many around in other countries.

We were discussing how once water-cars reach the US, they will come with hydrogen tanks that will then be conveniently exploded and the cars dubbed "too dangerous" and thereby made illegal.

The remedy that already exists is to install an on demand electrolyzer with no storage tank.

And remember, gasoline tanks also explode. One explosion is as deadly as another. So, go figure.

Sounds GREAT. Please provide a link or two to a company where I can buy one of these systems.

Every single company that ever sold a system like that was proven to be guilty of fraud. If you want to throw your money away I can send you a link to my PayPal account.

 

[Mojo2]

Gift #1: Hydrogen powered engines

*******************
#1 Discussion.

For a very long time now, decades if not longer, we have known how to use electricity to separate the hydrogen atoms from Oxygen in the simple water molecule. It's called electrolysis.

We have a device sold in kits today that takes water from a reservoir, like a gas tank, and uses a secondary alternator belt running off an engine that creates a current that separates hydrogen from oxygen. This liberates the hydrogen to be burned immediately in the combustion cycle of any engine. When it burns, it recombines with the oxygen to create water again in the form of steam vapor. This then can be recycled to produce more forward thrust.

There are no hydrogen storage tanks that can explode. The system is safe and on-demand. Water that has some particulates dissolved in it actually improves the efficiency of the system. Ergo, filtered seawater would run this country. And since sea levels have risen and we can soon kiss large sections of Florida goodbye as a result, using sea water is not going to be a foreseeable problem. None of our fracking-polluted fresh water reserves need be tapped for this boon to our energy problems.

The reason we haven't used this technology is because the fuel is free, the mechanism extraordinarily simple to construct and therefore, the oil companies would be slowly put out of business. That's it. That's the only reason we aren't using it. And by the way, hydrogen engines produce more power than gasoline ones.

************************

Our nation is headed to self-destruct if these two gifts are not implimented and quickly.

It takes more energy to make hydrogen than is gained from it's use as a power source, IIRC.

Hydrogen is a storage medium at best.

Go ahead. Challenge my statement but you'd better be packing info from BOTH sides of the issue before you throw down.

 

[westwall]

Might want to catch up. We are talking about the hydrogen cars that run on water that are due to be released in 2015 en masse. Though there are already many around in other countries.

We were discussing how once water-cars reach the US, they will come with hydrogen tanks that will then be conveniently exploded and the cars dubbed "too dangerous" and thereby made illegal.

The remedy that already exists is to install an on demand electrolyzer with no storage tank.

And remember, gasoline tanks also explode. One explosion is as deadly as another. So, go figure.

Sounds GREAT. Please provide a link or two to a company where I can buy one of these systems.

Every single company that ever sold a system like that was proven to be guilty of fraud. If you want to throw your money away I can send you a link to my PayPal account.

Yes, I know that. I'm just hoping that the OP has something new to add. So far he's a pretty sad addition to the enviro forum.

 

[Mojo2]

#2 Discussion

Universal Healthcare [UHC] is the magic bullet to our economic woes. If it was passed today in Congress or enacted by an emergency mandate from Executive order through the CDC, UHC would improve the economy by immediate and ongoing stimulus. Maintaining private healthcare insurance for the average family costs the equivalent of a second mortgage when you figure in monthly premiums and the high deductables. Also, employers bleeding out that mandate to provide for employees is crippling both their ability to compete and hire more employees. Many people with good and innovative ideas that would spur the economy take one look at starting a business and begin projectile vomiting at the very thought of just getting started.

It's not that people don't want to work. It's that there aren't enough jobs. So back to imagining the immediate implication of enacting UHC. Employers would feel immediate relief in not having to provide health insurance. With those monies freed up, employers could hire more people. The people who secure their own insurance or share-cost with employers would immediately see a second-mortgage-worth of cash freed up to use to consume. A thing that most people in the working classes do with free cash. Increased consumption means more jobs still. More jobs still means an increase in qualified home buyers. An increase in qualified home buyers means more sound mortgages, more home sales and an increase in the paper value of land that now has banks worried..

So this "trickle up" theory tied to UHC is not something we will see in 10 years or 30 years time. The effects will be almost instantaneous.

As with #1 there is only one entity objecting to UHC with a 'legitimate gripe'. That's the private healthcare moguls. Over 70% of the general population not only think that UHC is a good idea, they think it's a GREAT idea. UHC is not Obamacare. Obamacare is a botched compromise with a destruction-trigger mechanism installed under Obama's radar at it's inception by the insurance companies who "compromised" with him.

I found this panel discussion on BookTV today and it was surprisingly 'watchable'.

The ACA was always meant to be a means of achieving a single payer system.

A very bad thing.

The final conclusion made by Randy Barnett (the guy on the far right of the table) was that Health Insurance really does need to be improved in this country but Obamacare ain't the right answer.

He suggests sending Obamacare back to Congress to come up with something that works!

This video is only ten minutes of the event. but you'll get a good idea of what's going on by watching it. It is not as dry as you might imagine.

They are all law professors but they are all, also, bloggers and sometimes they talk the way we write posts here at USMB.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pojTsT5GT48]Book TV: Panel on "A Conspiracy Against Obamacare" - YouTube[/ame]

From the Heritage Foundation in Washington, DC, a discussion on the legal arguments against the Affordable Care Act made by Volokh Conspiracy bloggers. Trevor Burrus, editor of the book, and a panel, all law professors and bloggers for The Volokh Conspiracy website, talk about the impact of their arguments on the Obamacare debate - both in public and in the courts. The participants are: Randy Barnett (Georgetown Law Center), Orin Kerr (George Washington University), and Ilya Somin (George Mason University). The Volokh Conspiracy is a weblog started in 2002 by UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh which covers law and politics from a libertarian or conservative perspective. Bloggers for the site are mostly all law professors.

Law and Legal - "A Conspiracy Against Obamacare: The Volokh Conspiracy and the Health Care Case" - Book TV

Barnett says if you think the aborted roll-out of ACA has been a "face plant" so far, just wait until it is working as it was designed!

You will REALLY hate it then!

By the way, the entire program is ready to stream at the link posted above.

EDIT: Here is the best link to watch the program.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/AConsp

 

[Mojo2]

Sounds GREAT. Please provide a link or two to a company where I can buy one of these systems.

Every single company that ever sold a system like that was proven to be guilty of fraud. If you want to throw your money away I can send you a link to my PayPal account.

Yes, I know that. I'm just hoping that the OP has something new to add. So far he's a pretty sad addition to the enviro forum.

One more liberal who has "good intentions but is short on facts"?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Sounds GREAT. Please provide a link or two to a company where I can buy one of these systems.

Every single company that ever sold a system like that was proven to be guilty of fraud. If you want to throw your money away I can send you a link to my PayPal account.

Yes, I know that. I'm just hoping that the OP has something new to add. So far he's a pretty sad addition to the enviro forum.

I am still trying to figure out what that hydrogen cell is supposed to do to increase gas mileage.

 

[Silhouette]

Ummmm. Not one of those does what you claim. There is no on demand water powered vehicle for sale in any of those links. In fact, only one of the links actually has something you can buy, and that is an ADD ON to an existing internal combustion engine to supposedly make it more efficient.

There is no water powered vehicle for sale, for any amount of money, anywhere on the planet that I could find.

What gives?

Well, don't believe me then. Just read this:

Build a Hydrogen Powered Car A Hydrogen Generator You Can Build | Fuel-Efficient-Vehicles.org



* A cannister, under the hood, containing electrodes (about 1.5 mm apart), is (almost) filled with water. The water is separated into hydrogen and oxygen, on demand, when the engine is started, and the hydrogen produced is directed into the engine through the air intake, which may or may not be mixed with gasoline, sprayed in, also. The hydrogen, a gas, explodes, completely, 100%, not just some small percentage like the liquid gasoline (or diesel) being sprayed in with it.

Gasoline, the liquid, does not explode in your engine, either. Liquid gasoline, or diesel, is sprayed into the engine. Of that, the small amount that vaporizes off the surface, (abt. 10-15%?) explodes with the force needed to move the pistons and turn the crankshaft. Of that small percentage which vaporizes and produces energy, 65% is wasted as heat. Additional small percentages are lost in the drive train, etc. Most of the gasoline, still a liquid, is now hot enough to vaporize, react chemically (the oxygen has been consumed, even creating carbon monoxide), cool, and go out the tail-pipe as smog: soot, – toxic air pollution – stuff that poisons us and overheats our planet....

...“The electrodes are vibrated with a 0.5 to 5 amp electrical pulse (depending on your speed and acceleration) which breaks 2(H2O) => 2H2 + O2. When the pressure reaches say 30-60 psi, you turn the key and go. When you step on the pedal, you send more energy to the electrodes, and thus more vapor to the cylinders; i.e. fuel vapor on demand.”

An extract from the lecture given by Admiral Sir Anthony Griffin to the Maritime Division of the Southampton Institute, Warsash, UK, Sept. of 1993:
“Electrical power with opposite polarities is applied in pulses to the inner and outer cylinders and at a power of 10 watts, i.e. 5 volts at 2 amps. A considerable quantity of gas immediately accumulates in the top of the vessel and, within 10 seconds, reaches a pressure of about 10 pounds per square inch.” or . . . apply “very high voltage (20,000+) pulses at a particular frequency, within positively and negatively charged voltage zones, at a very low current of less than 1 milliamp. The effect is … the covalent bonds between the hydrogen and oxygen atoms are broken and the two gases separated.”...

...Example: Dennis Klein went 100 miles on 4 oz of water. (25 mi./oz.) We should be able to go at least 1 or 2 mi on an oz. of gasoline, don’t you think! (=128 mpg or =256mpg) We don’t because it has not been converted to a gas first. See our pages here on super carburetors. [by the way, 1 gal. = 128 fluid oz. ! . . and . . . Anyone who remembers their basic chemistry knows that 1 gallon of a liquid equates to about 1,000 gallons of it as a gas - in the gaseous state. :: 1 gal of water = around 1000 gal of hydrogen gas at normal room temp. and pressure.]...

...1935 – Inventor Henry Garrett patented a electrolytic carburetor and let a car run on tap water.

The late Henry “Dad” Garrett was a multi-talented Dallas inventor with a bent for electrical contrivances, and in 1935, he and his son, C.H. Garrett, patented and exhibited an automobile that ran on water — actually, on hydrogen after the water was broken down by electrolysis.

Dad Garrett was already famous for his work. In 1920 he set up WRR in Dallas, the world’s first municipal radio station, and was its first announcer. He was the first man to build a radio in his car, and he developed radio transmission from the car for police use. He also invented an automatic electric traffic signal, possibly the nation’s first.

On September 8, 1935, The Dallas Morning News first announced that the water-fuel concept worked — at least it worked for “several minutes,” the article reported. A few months later, Pathe’ News filmed the car driving along Garland Road with the driver stopping at White Rock Lake to fill the fuel tank with water before cruising off. ...

...It is suggested you try this out to begin with on a second vehicle you own, one that you don’t need to live with everyday, until you perfect this technology.

In putting these plans into operation, you will be making use of your entire existing system except for the fuel tank and the catalytic converter. take a look at this video generating hydrogen gas with a small amp.

12V - 36V 65A PWM PULSE WIDTH MODULATOR HHO HYDROGEN GENERATOR PC BOARD (New Design Test) - YouTube

continued...

 

[Silhouette]

Here are the rest of those diagrams from part I & the same link: