Trump will announce end of birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants, officials say

[Zincwarrior]

Well so much for that horse pucky.
BLOCKED.

Federal judge temporarily blocks Trump’s birthright citizenship order​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2025/01/23/trump-judge-birthright-citizenship-block/

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

??? It's why he was granted citizenship..

In contrast, if an illegal gets two feet across the border and gives birth, your interpretation grants citizenship to the child.

This is your interpretation of the 14th:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States , and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States

He was not granted citizenship. Anyone, according to the 14th, if born in the USA is a citizen. Wong was born in the USA.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Because they didn't meet the first part of the requirement. Being born here.

Why does being born here have anything to do with jurisdiction of our laws? If that's what you say it meant then why does birth have anything different to being subject to our laws vs anyone who just arrived here?

Exactly. Same for children of diplomats who are not under American jurisdiction. There are two qualifications you have to meet. You have to be born here and subject to our jurisdiction. Aliens who arrive on our shores aren't born here, indigenous children and the children of diplomats are born here but not subject to our jurisdiction, everyone else however who is born here is subject to our jurisdiction. That includes children of citizens, resident aliens, visitors, students on student visas, green cars holders, immigrants, and illegal aliens. All are born here and subject to our jurisdiction.

Jurisdiction is not about laws though. It's about allegiance to another country. The 1866 senate debates in this subject indicate that's what they meant by "jurisdiction" allegiance to any foreign nation.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Well so much for that horse pucky.
BLOCKED.

Federal judge temporarily blocks Trump’s birthright citizenship order​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2025/01/23/trump-judge-birthright-citizenship-block/

Horse pucky, yes, but remember this is as much as Trump ticking off the list of promises to his base.

Good politics.

 

[Curried Goats]

Why does being born here have anything to do with jurisdiction of our laws? If that's what you say it meant then why does birth have anything different to being subject to our laws vs anyone who just arrived here?


Jurisdiction is not about laws though. It's about allegiance to another country. The 1866 senate debates in this subject indicate that's what they meant by "jurisdiction" allegiance to any foreign nation.

The requirements for birthright citizenship are being born here and being subject to our jurisdiction. That's why it matters if you just arrived here. Because then you weren't born here. Understand yet?

 

[ThisIsMe]

The requirements for birthright citizenship are being born here and being subject to our jurisdiction. That's why it matters if you just arrived here. Because then you weren't born here. Understand yet?

If "jurisdiction" is only about "subject to our laws", then why limit it to people born here? EVERYONE is subject to our laws

The answer is, jurisdiction wasn't about laws, but about allegiance to another country.

 

[Curried Goats]

If "jurisdiction" is only about "subject to our laws", then why limit it to people born here? EVERYONE is subject to our laws

The answer is, jurisdiction wasn't about laws, but about allegiance to another country.

Subject to our jurisdiction is separate from the requirement to be born here. There are two requirements for birthright citizenship. Being born and being subject to our jurisdiction. What's confusing you? You can be born here and not subject to our jurisdiction and the amendment itself lays out the instances where this occurs. With indigenous tribes who are born here but subject to their own jurisdiction and children of diplomats who are also born here and subject to the jurisdiction of their home countries. Visitors and immigrants, even illegal ones are fully under our jurisdiction while here.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Subject to our jurisdiction is separate from the requirement to be born here. There are two requirements for birthright citizenship. Being born and being subject to our jurisdiction. What's confusing you? You can be born here and not subject to our jurisdiction and the amendment itself lays out the instances where this occurs. With indigenous tribes who are born here but subject to their own jurisdiction and children of diplomats who are also born here and subject to the jurisdiction of their home countries. Visitors and immigrants, even illegal ones are fully under our jurisdiction while here.

That all may be so, but it will not override the 14th Amendment.

 

[Curried Goats]

That all may be so, but it will not override the 14th Amendment.

That is the 14th Amendment you moron.

 

[JoeB131]

Even though Wong's parents were legal residents. THat doesn't make any difference in the analysis you looked up on Google?

But they weren't legal residents. They had, in fact, returned to China after the Chinese Exclusion Act was passed.

... which had been decided in 1898. It does not change Ark's own citizenship.

Just a point. Ark is not Wong Kim Ark's last name. In China, the family name is used before the personal name. So, his family name is Wong.

YOur ignorance is frightening.

No, what's ignorant is Trump has you fooled into thinking anything is going to come of this. This is more baiting the rubes.

Stop being a rube.

 

[Rawley]

But they weren't legal residents.

Yes they were. "That, at the time of his said birth, his mother and father were domiciled residents of the United States, and had established and enjoyed a permanent domicil and residence therein at said city and county of San Francisco, State aforesaid."

They had, in fact, returned to China after the Chinese Exclusion Act was passed.

Just a point. Ark is not Wong Kim Ark's last name. In China, the family name is used before the personal name. So, his family name is Wong.



No, what's ignorant is Trump has you fooled into thinking anything is going to come of this. This is more baiting the rubes.

Stop being a rube.

Backatcha. Can you explain why your cult masters are so fixated on granting citizenship to the children of these illegals?

 

[JoeB131]

Yes they were. "That, at the time of his said birth, his mother and father were domiciled residents of the United States, and had established and enjoyed a permanent domicil and residence therein at said city and county of San Francisco, State aforesaid."

Okay.

A few things. First, Trump wants to end ALL Birthright citizenship, not just that for illegals. So you've been spending a lot of time on the "illegals don't count" argument, which is moot here. He wants to end birthright citizenship for LEGAL immigrants as well.

Secondly, you go on and on about domiciled residents. Okay, what does that mean.

If an undocumented immigrants has a domicile (and I assume most of them do!) does that mean their kids can stay?

Backatcha. Can you explain why your cult masters are so fixated on granting citizenship to the children of these illegals?

Because the constitution says so?

Okay, let's go to the start. My opinions are my own, and I can point to more than a few liberals I've pissed off here on various topics.

So let's not worry about my "Cult Masters" and just put forth my position.

1) My father was an immigrant, and my wife is an immigrant. Yes, they were both "legal", whatever the hell that means, but they were still immigrants nonetheless.

2) America needs immigrants. Simply put, Native-born Americans aren't reproducing at replacement rates (like most First World countries.)

3) The problem with making immigration "illegal" is once you've prohibited something that most people want, (or even some people want), you've made it lucrative to do it illegally. We have an illegal immigrant "problem" because we have jobs to fill, and it's hard to get here legally to do them. Immigration reform has to be holistic.

 

[Stann]

The Democrats don't care about laws, why should we?

It is trump who doesn't care about the law and the fact that hat he chose to lie in promoting this illegal , unconstitutional executive order makes it even more egregious , he said , " We are the only country in the world to do this. " 30 countries in the world give birthright citizenship , including Canada and Mexico.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Subject to our jurisdiction is separate from the requirement to be born here. There are two requirements for birthright citizenship. Being born and being subject to our jurisdiction. What's confusing you? You can be born here and not subject to our jurisdiction and the amendment itself lays out the instances where this occurs. With indigenous tribes who are born here but subject to their own jurisdiction and children of diplomats who are also born here and subject to the jurisdiction of their home countries. Visitors and immigrants, even illegal ones are fully under our jurisdiction while here.

Correct, there are two requirements (3 if you read more into it). 1) born in the US 2) subject to its jurisdiction

It's number 2 that is in question. Jurisdiction is not just about being subject to the laws, it's about one's allegiance to another country. So, in this case, a child born in the united states, to parents whos allegiance is to another country, would not be a citizen. The child would assume the citizenship of the parents.

If this were not the case, then why exclude diplomats? What if that diplomat wanted their child to be a citizen of the US? This would deny them that. The way it was written, it tells you all of the people excluded, including diplomats, aliens, other foreigners.

 

[Rawley]

Okay.

A few things. First, Trump wants to end ALL Birthright citizenship, not just that for illegals.

Nope. You should really read the EO and not the blast from your cult masters. Only two categories.

(1) when that person’s mother was unlawfully present in the United States and the father was not a United States citizen or lawful permanent resident at the time of said person’s birth, or (2) when that person’s mother’s presence in the United States at the time of said person’s birth was lawful but temporary (such as, but not limited to, visiting the United States under the auspices of the Visa Waiver Program or visiting on a student, work, or tourist visa)

Protecting The Meaning And Value Of American Citizenship

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered: Section 1.

www.whitehouse.gov

So you've been spending a lot of time on the "illegals don't count" argument, which is moot here. He wants to end birthright citizenship for LEGAL immigrants as well.

Secondly, you go on and on about domiciled residents. Okay, what does that mean.

If an undocumented immigrants has a domicile (and I assume most of them do!) does that mean their kids can stay?

"enjoyed a permanent domicil and residence" Means there were here legally on a permanent basis

Because the constitution says so?

Okay, let's go to the start. My opinions are my own, and I can point to more than a few liberals I've pissed off here on various topics.

So let's not worry about my "Cult Masters" and just put forth my position.

1) My father was an immigrant, and my wife is an immigrant. Yes, they were both "legal", whatever the hell that means, but they were still immigrants nonetheless.

"legal" means everything, At least to most of us. You've made clear that it is meaningless to you.

2) America needs immigrants. Simply put, Native-born Americans aren't reproducing at replacement rates (like most First World countries.)

3) The problem with making immigration "illegal" is once you've prohibited something that most people want, (or even some people want), you've made it lucrative to do it illegally. We have an illegal immigrant "problem" because we have jobs to fill, and it's hard to get here legally to do them. Immigration reform has to be holistic.

Are is a legal process. THe illegals Joe let in just don't want to wait in line and go through the legal process

 

[Curried Goats]

Correct, there are two requirements (3 if you read more into it). 1) born in the US 2) subject to its jurisdiction

It's number 2 that is in question. Jurisdiction is not just about being subject to the laws, it's about one's allegiance to another country. So, in this case, a child born in the united states, to parents whos allegiance is to another country, would not be a citizen. The child would assume the citizenship of the parents.

If this were not the case, then why exclude diplomats? What if that diplomat wanted their child to be a citizen of the US? This would deny them that. The way it was written, it tells you all of the people excluded, including diplomats, aliens, other foreigners.

That's not what the decision on Wong Kim Park said. His parents were subjects of the Chinese emperor.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Is Trump going to change the Constitution?

He would have to if he doesn't want to preside in an unconstitutional manner, I think perhaps he may believe that all he has to do is call it a "common sense" approach as there are those who find that to be an acceptable end run around the constitution.

 

[ThisIsMe]

That's not what the decision on Wong Kim Park said. His parents were subjects of the Chinese emperor.

Read the thread i posted about Jurisdiction

That's not what the decision on Wong Kim Park said. His parents were subjects of the Chinese emperor.

Read my thread on jurisdiction

Thread '"Jurisdiction"' "Jurisdiction"

 

[Curried Goats]

Read the thread i posted about Jurisdiction

Read my thread on jurisdiction

Thread '"Jurisdiction"' "Jurisdiction"

Why don't you read that ruling?

 

[JoeB131]

(1) when that person’s mother was unlawfully present in the United States and the father was not a United States citizen or lawful permanent resident at the time of said person’s birth, or (2) when that person’s mother’s presence in the United States at the time of said person’s birth was lawful but temporary (such as, but not limited to, visiting the United States under the auspices of the Visa Waiver Program or visiting on a student, work, or tourist visa)

So, um, yeah... legal immigrants can be denied.