Trump is putting coal workers out of work

[JoeB131]

"long before that". Can you cite laws regulating the use of horses for transporting people and goods through cities out of existence and when they were enacted? You're making the claim that it was the government, not market forces, that replaced horses with cars. Bring the evidence.

You mean, Am I going to do a lot of research on the subject... um, no, I'm not going to do that.

Of course, the government had to outlaw horses at a certain point, and they did, mostly because they couldn't have the infrastructure to support them (such as cleaning all the horse shit off the streets.. The free market wasn't going to do that.)

It was the shutdown that killed the economy, and it was the governors that pushed it and are keeping it going.

Actually, nowhere near.

First, the economy was already going into recession before the Shutdown/Covid hit. Even though the Shutdown wasn't enacted until the last two weeks of March, GDP Growth for Q1 of 2020 was -4.8. You don't get that from two weeks of partial shutdown. That's the sign of an economy that is already weak.

Secondly, - we are still losing 1000 people a day, now mostly in the Red States that didn't do shutdowns.

If we had done a nation-wide shutdown early on, we'd have gotten control of this thing a lot sooner. Instead, we got a president who undermined the experts because Fauci was more popular than he was.

 

[hadit]

"long before that". Can you cite laws regulating the use of horses for transporting people and goods through cities out of existence and when they were enacted? You're making the claim that it was the government, not market forces, that replaced horses with cars. Bring the evidence.

You mean, Am I going to do a lot of research on the subject... um, no, I'm not going to do that.

Of course, the government had to outlaw horses at a certain point, and they did, mostly because they couldn't have the infrastructure to support them (such as cleaning all the horse shit off the streets.. The free market wasn't going to do that.)

It was the shutdown that killed the economy, and it was the governors that pushed it and are keeping it going.

Actually, nowhere near.

First, the economy was already going into recession before the Shutdown/Covid hit. Even though the Shutdown wasn't enacted until the last two weeks of March, GDP Growth for Q1 of 2020 was -4.8. You don't get that from two weeks of partial shutdown. That's the sign of an economy that is already weak.

Secondly, - we are still losing 1000 people a day, now mostly in the Red States that didn't do shutdowns.

If we had done a nation-wide shutdown early on, we'd have gotten control of this thing a lot sooner. Instead, we got a president who undermined the experts because Fauci was more popular than he was.

So, IOW, you won't support your claim that it was the government that forced people off horses and into cars. I can only imagine why that would be, so we'll leave it at this, market forces replaced horses with cars. Simple as that. And you do know that your ilk was screaming at Trump when he took early measures to stop the influx of travelers from infected areas. Might not want to scream at him no matter what he does, just looks a little dumb.

 

[pknopp]

"long before that". Can you cite laws regulating the use of horses for transporting people and goods through cities out of existence and when they were enacted? You're making the claim that it was the government, not market forces, that replaced horses with cars. Bring the evidence.

You mean, Am I going to do a lot of research on the subject... um, no, I'm not going to do that.

Of course, the government had to outlaw horses at a certain point, and they did, mostly because they couldn't have the infrastructure to support them (such as cleaning all the horse shit off the streets.. The free market wasn't going to do that.)

It was the shutdown that killed the economy, and it was the governors that pushed it and are keeping it going.

Actually, nowhere near.

First, the economy was already going into recession before the Shutdown/Covid hit. Even though the Shutdown wasn't enacted until the last two weeks of March, GDP Growth for Q1 of 2020 was -4.8. You don't get that from two weeks of partial shutdown. That's the sign of an economy that is already weak.

Secondly, - we are still losing 1000 people a day, now mostly in the Red States that didn't do shutdowns.

If we had done a nation-wide shutdown early on, we'd have gotten control of this thing a lot sooner. Instead, we got a president who undermined the experts because Fauci was more popular than he was.

Horses aren't outlawed. I was in Amish country yesterday. Horses all over the place. In many cities the police still ride horses. I can ride a horse through town.

 

[JoeB131]

So, IOW, you won't support your claim

No, I've found that when I do document things, I have never seen a right winger say once, "Wow, you've given me a whole new perspective on this issue that I never knew before". (And to be fair, when I was conservative, and did the same thing, left wingers never did it either).

They either
1) Pretend they didn't see it, slink away and make the same false claims in another thread.
2) Scream "Fake News" even if it is a source they like.

Horses aren't outlawed. I was in Amish country yesterday. Horses all over the place. In many cities the police still ride horses. I can ride a horse through town.

Try riding a horse through downtown Chicago... or any other major city.

And you do know that your ilk was screaming at Trump when he took early measures to stop the influx of travelers from infected areas. Might not want to scream at him no matter what he does, just looks a little dumb.

Uh, we were screaming because his actions weren't based on science, they were based on racism. Locking out travellers doesn't do any good if the infection is already in your country, which everyone told him it was at that point.

From January to March, he called it a Hoax, he downplayed the problem, he said it would clear up in a couple of weeks, he openly supported nuts with guns showing up at State Capitols... etc. In short, he not only didn't take action, he did everything he could to undermine those who were.

 

[pknopp]

So, IOW, you won't support your claim

No, I've found that when I do document things, I have never seen a right winger say once, "Wow, you've given me a whole new perspective on this issue that I never knew before". (And to be fair, when I was conservative, and did the same thing, left wingers never did it either).

They either
1) Pretend they didn't see it, slink away and make the same false claims in another thread.
2) Scream "Fake News" even if it is a source they like.

Horses aren't outlawed. I was in Amish country yesterday. Horses all over the place. In many cities the police still ride horses. I can ride a horse through town.

Try riding a horse through downtown Chicago... or any other major city.

Who’s That Man Riding A Horse On The Streets Of Chicago? The Dreadhead Cowboy.

 

[Rye Catcher]

She offered them welfare. Train them for what exactly?

Nope. Training programs. Everything from computer programming to nursing.

What I’ve heard from many others is that would be ineffective because coal miners are too stupid.

How many hospitals and computer jobs do you suppose there are in the mountains of WV?

IT jobs can be anywhere there's broadband.

IT jobs are few compared to coal mining. Microsoft isn't going to build in the mountains of WV.

Microsoft doesn't have to build anywhere for IT jobs to exist. Like I said, IT jobs can be done anywhere there's broadband, and the demand is high.

Which is saying nothing.

Nonsense, it is saying that IT jobs can be in WV. I could move there tomorrow and keep doing what I do. I am completely mobile. In fact, I would get paid the same with a much lower cost of living. Why do you think Microsoft hires all the IT people?

Good luck getting internet in some areas. You've never been in the outlying areas in a state like WV have you?

Do you think it has to stay that way? I said it could be done anywhere there's a decent internet connection. There will always be pockets where it's weak or intermittent, but it will go where the demand is.

Vague nothings. There is no demand. People aren't interested in that. The problem is that politicians could even come up with a plan for something and the people still won't believe them.

Politicians' plans generally fail because they emphasize government control over freedom. Of course they're not believable.

They fail because the politician never intended to follow through or are too lazy or too greedy to fight for what they promised.

In general promises by Pols can be demagoguery, especially when promised by charlatans, or not fulfilled because of partisan bickering and/or blocked do to false advertising.

Example: Health care being targeted by those who fear their golden goose will be killed making the claim government intervention is socialism. A BIG LIE promulgated to instill fear in the pubic and to protect the profits of insurance companies before people's health.

 

[hadit]

So, IOW, you won't support your claim

No, I've found that when I do document things, I have never seen a right winger say once, "Wow, you've given me a whole new perspective on this issue that I never knew before". (And to be fair, when I was conservative, and did the same thing, left wingers never did it either).

They either
1) Pretend they didn't see it, slink away and make the same false claims in another thread.
2) Scream "Fake News" even if it is a source they like.

Horses aren't outlawed. I was in Amish country yesterday. Horses all over the place. In many cities the police still ride horses. I can ride a horse through town.

Try riding a horse through downtown Chicago... or any other major city.

And you do know that your ilk was screaming at Trump when he took early measures to stop the influx of travelers from infected areas. Might not want to scream at him no matter what he does, just looks a little dumb.

Uh, we were screaming because his actions weren't based on science, they were based on racism. Locking out travellers doesn't do any good if the infection is already in your country, which everyone told him it was at that point.

From January to March, he called it a Hoax, he downplayed the problem, he said it would clear up in a couple of weeks, he openly supported nuts with guns showing up at State Capitols... etc. In short, he not only didn't take action, he did everything he could to undermine those who were.

1. You keep saying that people ignore your sources without the slightest idea whether I would or not. This is not the first time you've tried to use that excuse with me when you can't back up what you say. You made the claim, it's dumb, now back it up. Did the use of horses for transportation in the cities get replaced by cars because people preferred driving cars or because the government forced them to switch?
2. You claim to know what TRUMP! is thinking without any evidence that you do. In fact, it is rather obvious that your mind reading foil helmet is the wrong size, because it's not working very well.
3. The democrat governors shut down their states and are now deciding how and when to open back up. Trump didn't force anyone to shut down and he's not forcing them to open back up.

 

[JoeB131]

1. You keep saying that people ignore your sources without the slightest idea whether I would or not.

Guy, I've been talking to you for years, please don't act like I don't already have you pegged.

2. You claim to know what TRUMP! is thinking without any evidence that you do.

You mean the screaming racist maniac did something that was totally racist, and it's a stretch to assume racism wasn't his motivation? Wow.

3. The democrat governors shut down their states and are now deciding how and when to open back up. Trump didn't force anyone to shut down and he's not forcing them to open back up.

Actually, Trump failed to have a national plan, which is why we have a problem now.

Latest news. Jared Kushner actually came up with a National Plan, and Trump rejected it because it would help the Blue States.

Kushner's coronavirus team shied away from a national strategy, believing that the virus was hitting Democratic states hardest and that they could blame governors, report says

Some members of Kushner's COVID-19 team thought it was better to leave Democratic-voting areas to fend for themselves, a source told Vanity Fair.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[hadit]

1. You keep saying that people ignore your sources without the slightest idea whether I would or not.

Guy, I've been talking to you for years, please don't act like I don't already have you pegged.

Obviously not. I'll even make it easy. Give me one source that shows government regulating horses off the city streets before cars became widely available to the people and I'll analyze it.

2. You claim to know what TRUMP! is thinking without any evidence that you do.

You mean the screaming racist maniac did something that was totally racist, and it's a stretch to assume racism wasn't his motivation? Wow.

Oh, yes, the old "He's a racist because I say so, so anything he does can be screamed at because HE'S A RACIST!!! and stuff" gambit. Any evidence of TRUMP!'s supposed racism toward Asians?

3. The democrat governors shut down their states and are now deciding how and when to open back up. Trump didn't force anyone to shut down and he's not forcing them to open back up.

Actually, Trump failed to have a national plan, which is why we have a problem now.

Latest news. Jared Kushner actually came up with a National Plan, and Trump rejected it because it would help the Blue States.

Kushner's coronavirus team shied away from a national strategy, believing that the virus was hitting Democratic states hardest and that they could blame governors, report says

Some members of Kushner's COVID-19 team thought it was better to leave Democratic-voting areas to fend for themselves, a source told Vanity Fair.

www.businessinsider.com

I don't recall seeing you in the meeting. Were you hiding behind the potted plants in the corner again? Basically, are you saying that the governors were the stupid ones because they didn't shut down immediately?

 

[JoeB131]

I don't recall seeing you in the meeting. Were you hiding behind the potted plants in the corner again? Basically, are you saying that the governors were the stupid ones because they didn't shut down immediately?

They were stupid for thinking Trump would act like a responsible president.. They've had three years of him showing he wasn't.

 

[hadit]

I don't recall seeing you in the meeting. Were you hiding behind the potted plants in the corner again? Basically, are you saying that the governors were the stupid ones because they didn't shut down immediately?

They were stupid for thinking Trump would act like a responsible president.. They've had three years of him showing he wasn't.

So you admit they knew better but just sat by waiting for Washington to do something? Trump gave them a lot of authority over their own states. Maybe they just weren't ready to handle it.

 

[JoeB131]

So you admit they knew better but just sat by waiting for Washington to do something? Trump gave them a lot of authority over their own states. Maybe they just weren't ready to handle it.

Or they realized a National Response was required, which is what EVERY OTHER COUNTRY that got this under control did.

 

[hadit]

So you admit they knew better but just sat by waiting for Washington to do something? Trump gave them a lot of authority over their own states. Maybe they just weren't ready to handle it.

Or they realized a National Response was required, which is what EVERY OTHER COUNTRY that got this under control did.

TRUMP! let them have control of their own states, which is their responsibility. Did they not understand that?

 

[JoeB131]

TRUMP! let them have control of their own states, which is their responsibility. Did they not understand that?

Again, a national strategy was needed. What they got out of Washington was vacilation, contradiction and petty politics... most of it coming from Trump.

Nobody is going to look back at this and say, "Job Well Done". This will probably go down in history as one of the great failures of a President. It makes Bush's reaction to Katrina (another time he tried to shift blame to the state and failed) look tame in comparison.

 

[hadit]

TRUMP! let them have control of their own states, which is their responsibility. Did they not understand that?

Again, a national strategy was needed. What they got out of Washington was vacilation, contradiction and petty politics... most of it coming from Trump.

Nobody is going to look back at this and say, "Job Well Done". This will probably go down in history as one of the great failures of a President. It makes Bush's reaction to Katrina (another time he tried to shift blame to the state and failed) look tame in comparison.

Why did they need TRUMP! to tell them what to do for their own people? You keep ducking that.

And still no source backing up your absurd claim.

 

[JoeB131]

Why did they need TRUMP! to tell them what to do for their own people? You keep ducking that.

Uh, yeah, we needed a federal response. Clearly, state responses didn't work, Covid just moved from the Blue states and now it's raging through the red states.

Trump had a job to do, he didn't do it, because he was more worried about his reelection than saving lives.

 

[hadit]

Why did they need TRUMP! to tell them what to do for their own people? You keep ducking that.

Uh, yeah, we needed a federal response. Clearly, state responses didn't work, Covid just moved from the Blue states and now it's raging through the red states.

Trump had a job to do, he didn't do it, because he was more worried about his reelection than saving lives.

So the governors couldn't do anything to help their own people unless TRUMP! told them what to do. Got it.

Time to elect better governors.

 

[JoeB131]

So the governors couldn't do anything to help their own people unless TRUMP! told them what to do.

No, but if I explain it to you again, you still wouldn't understand it.

The Governors DID do stuff, but since there wasn't a consistant policy across the country enacted early, you had gaps.

Look what's happening now... all the states that didn't do social distancing and shutdowns are having outbreaks.

 

[hadit]

So the governors couldn't do anything to help their own people unless TRUMP! told them what to do.

No, but if I explain it to you again, you still wouldn't understand it.

The Governors DID do stuff, but since there wasn't a consistant policy across the country enacted early, you had gaps.

Look what's happening now... all the states that didn't do social distancing and shutdowns are having outbreaks.

Which we knew was going to happen no matter when or how you opened back up. It's a virus and when humans are in contact, it spreads. There's nothing new about that, and we knew from the beginning that it just didn't matter how long you maintained the shutdown. As soon as you lifted it there would be a surge in the number of new cases, so the only question left was how long we were willing to strangle the economy. There will continue to be outbreaks, just as there have always been outbreaks of the flu despite preventative measures. The only difference with this disease is how we reacted to it. In no other case have we shut down the entire country over a virus that kills a very small proportion of the people it infects. In fact, we haven't shut down the entire country over any disease, even those much more deadly. Our approach has always been to isolate the sick, not the healthy.

 

[JoeB131]

Which we knew was going to happen no matter when or how you opened back up. It's a virus and when humans are in contact, it spreads. There's nothing new about that, and we knew from the beginning that it just didn't matter how long you maintained the shutdown. As soon as you lifted it there would be a surge in the number of new cases, so the only question left was how long we were willing to strangle the economy.

Look, everyone, it's the "Granny was gonna die anyway" strategy.

Hey, fuck Granny, Trump might get voted out.