To the Moon!!.. not just yet!!

[Navy1960]

Andrew Lawler, writing in Science Insider, is reporting on more details of the emerging Obama space plan. Here is what Lawler says President Obama has in store.


Ares 1 will be cancelled.


Resupply and crew transfer of the International Space Station will be handled by a commercially leased launch vehicle, perhaps the Dragon launched on SpaceX’s Falcon 9.


NASA will concentrate on the development of a “simpler” heavy lift lancher, possibly the Ares V Lite or a shuttle derived vehicle. The heavy lifter will be ready by 2018.
More possible details of Obama space plan for NASA emerges

That has some space experts worried that the Ares I project might be dead, although NASA has spent $3 billion and four years developing the rocket.

Is Ares I a dead rocket after $3 billion spent? | Space News from The Huntsville Times - al.com

Dragon is a free-flying, reusable spacecraft being developed by SpaceX under NASA's Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) program. Initiated internally by SpaceX in 2005, the Dragon spacecraft is made up of a pressurized capsule and unpressurized trunk used for Earth to LEO transport of pressurized cargo, unpressurized cargo, and/or crew members.

The Dragon spacecraft is comprised of 3 main elements: the Nosecone, which protects the vessel and the docking adaptor during ascent; the Spacecraft, which houses the crew and/or pressurized cargo as well as the service section containing avionics, the RCS system, parachutes, and other support infrastructure; and the Trunk, which provides for the stowage of unpressurized cargo and will support Dragon’s solar arrays and thermal radiators.

In December 2008, NASA announced the selection of SpaceX’s Falcon 9 launch vehicle and Dragon spacecraft to resupply the International Space Station (ISS) when the Space Shuttle retires. The $1.6 billion contract represents a minimum of 12 flights, with an option to order additional missions for a cumulative total contract value of up to $3.1 billion.
Space Exploration Technologies Corporation - Dragon


Now while this subject may not hold much appeal to many in the United States as it once did, we have much to be thankful for, ofr the space progra, On this borad, I have seen a question over and over again, as to what Govt. does right, and as you all know, not many of the departments within the Federal Govt. have a good track record on such matters with one exception and thats NASA. So what I find as constantly surprising is the willingness of some to cut programs for pure political reasons. Let's look at this a moment, as the budget deficit gets larger and larger and if the Ares I is cancelled after spending 3.1 Billion dollars and while the launch facilites are being constructed with tax payer funds as we speak, we would have gotten, exactly NOTHING for our tax dollars. Further by this cancellation, we as a nation will have finally raised the flag of surrender to other nations when it comes to space exploration. One other thing of note here, is that in a time when many are in need of jobs and especially American jobs, to cancell a program that over it's life will employ tens of thousands of Americans does little to improve that situation and to further recommend outsourcing our nations space needs to other nations does little if anything to help this nation in the long term. Perhaps, one day Russia or China when they are next to land on the moon will be kind enough to give us a discount to ride on one of their rockets.

 

[strollingbones]

russia doesnt have the cash for a moon landing...china perhaps but do they have the interest in one?
it would not be a first...etc....

i would prefer monies and jobs be developed by doing what is here on earth....someone did a thread about the intrastructures getting ready to fail..that is so true....

and perhaps we should explore the oceans...the last unexplored frontiers of earth

 

[strollingbones]

now this did amuse and terrify me...


Russia May Attack Asteroid That's Virtually No Threat - Yahoo! News

 

[dilloduck]

russia doesnt have the cash for a moon landing...china perhaps but do they have the interest in one?
it would not be a first...etc....

i would prefer monies and jobs be developed by doing what is here on earth....someone did a thread about the intrastructures getting ready to fail..that is so true....

and perhaps we should explore the oceans...the last unexplored frontiers of earth

Agreed----I have yet to be convinced of the moon being anything but a fun scientific experiment. Let private industry play with it.

 

[Navy1960]

The launch of a Russian Phobos Grunt probe to Mars on October 16 has been delayed until 2011. The delay also affects China's first mission to Mars. The 240-pound Chinese Yinghou-1 spacecraft was to be mounted atop the Russian spacecraft for transport to the Martian orbit, where it was to be released before the Russian spacecraft landed on Phobos.
The delay, however, gives us grounds to analyze China's achievements in space exploration, especially in the year of the 60th anniversary of its establishment as the People's Republic of China, when the Chinese economy has growth 8% despite the global economic downturn. It spends over $3.5 billion on space exploration annually.

Since its first steps made in the sphere of space technology with Soviet assistance in 1956, China "has made eye-catching achievements, and ranks among the world's most advanced countries in some important fields of space technology," reads the government's White Paper on "China's Space Activities in 2006."

China Works For Mars And Moon Missions

Despite the world economic crisis, Russia continued efforts to re-emerge as a space power during 2009. Russian space agency, Roskosmos, promised to conduct from 39 to 44 launches in 2009, versus 27 missions in 2008. In reality, Russia would launch 31 space missions, counting a Proton launch scheduled for Dec. 29.

The nation's manned space program was responsible for the increase, as a result of doubling of Russian transport vehicles heading to a nearly completed International Space Station. Even with a number of satellite launches postponed to 2010, Russia conducted more space shots than any other country in the world
RussianSpaceWeb.com

bones, I wonder who that was on the infrastructre? *lol* anyway, the space program in my mind is a part of that infrastructure especially when it comes to how we communicate and impacts our daily lives. One other thing to consider here, do you think spending 3.1 billion dollars and having nothing to show for it , plus the additional costs in having to rent rides on Russian spacecraft is money well spent? especaily in terms of American jobs? What NASA spends vs. the benefits from it is a tiny fraction of what this nation spends on pork.

 

[Polk]

russia doesnt have the cash for a moon landing...china perhaps but do they have the interest in one?
it would not be a first...etc....

They wouldn't be the first, but it would be a huge PR coup.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The Moon is an archaeological and mineralogical treasure trove. Private industry should explore it thoroughly

 

[Navy1960]

The Moon, a luminous object in the
night sky that once inspired limitless
speculation, afforded the inspiration
for scientific discoveries in space and on
Earth – thanks to the Apollo Program.
The world was captivated on July 20,1969,
when hundreds of millions watched through the lens of a
compact camera built specifically for space as man planted
his first step onto the lunar surface. Astronauts recorded
details of the momentous occasion with special pens that
allowed ink to flow freely in low gravity. Other technologies
like breathing apparatuses, fabric structures, communications
and protective coatings that made man’s step on the Moon
possible soon led to giant leaps in technology on Earth.
NASA’s Office of Technology Transfer and Commercialization
licenses space-age technologies and connects with the private
sector through business-to-business partnerships for the
creation of products that improve lives here on Earth. Below
are a few of the many viable commercial products America
enjoys today with roots that reach as far as the Moon.
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/pdf/80660main_ApolloFS.pdf

These were just a few of those benefits, from the Apollo missions...

 

[strollingbones]

go to the moon or fix the bridges...hell just do something...

 

[Navy1960]

go to the moon or fix the bridges...hell just do something...

It seems to me bones that we only limit our possibilites when we say "can't" , how about finding out way's we "can do" then both are not beyond the possibility. It appears that these days if half the energy expended on the reasons why something can't be done, were applied to actual solutions and having a little more faith in the ability of Americans to solve problems themselves then we may be all much better off. Heck bones, more time is spent on talking about the problems than actually solving them it seems , and when we have started to move down the path of actually doing something worthwhile, we cancel it and cost even more money, its an endless cycle, and people wonder why the Govt. is so deep in debt.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

...or we could fix the bridge in Mare Crisium on the Moon.

 

[dilloduck]

go to the moon or fix the bridges...hell just do something...

It seems to me bones that we only limit our possibilites when we say "can't" , how about finding out way's we "can do" then both are not beyond the possibility. It appears that these days if half the energy expended on the reasons why something can't be done, were applied to actual solutions and having a little more faith in the ability of Americans to solve problems themselves then we may be all much better off. Heck bones, more time is spent on talking about the problems than actually solving them it seems , and when we have started to move down the path of actually doing something worthwhile, we cancel it and cost even more money, its an endless cycle, and people wonder why the Govt. is so deep in debt.

Why throw good bucks after bad? What exactly IS the problem that we are trying to solve by going to the moon--again ? And is that the first problem we should be addressing ?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Since we are not going to go to the moon or mars in an intelligent manner
ferrying supplies to the location to have them there to set up a permanent colony .

We might as well build a grid based on what ever tesla was doing or create a couch potato for wii game where you can control a guy watching TV and eating chips and stuff.

 

[dilloduck]

and the supples we ferry into space come out of the mouths of who ?

 

[Navy1960]

go to the moon or fix the bridges...hell just do something...

It seems to me bones that we only limit our possibilites when we say "can't" , how about finding out way's we "can do" then both are not beyond the possibility. It appears that these days if half the energy expended on the reasons why something can't be done, were applied to actual solutions and having a little more faith in the ability of Americans to solve problems themselves then we may be all much better off. Heck bones, more time is spent on talking about the problems than actually solving them it seems , and when we have started to move down the path of actually doing something worthwhile, we cancel it and cost even more money, its an endless cycle, and people wonder why the Govt. is so deep in debt.

Why throw good bucks after bad? What exactly IS the problem that we are trying to solve by going to the moon--again ? And is that the first problem we should be addressing ?

Actually dillo, that question was asked and answered by NASA , so I will point you to it.

If you asked 100 people why we should return to the moon, you'd probably get 100 answers - or more! Over the past year, NASA posed this question not just to 100 people, but to more than 1,000 from around the world. Scientists, engineers, commercial entrepreneurs, space advocates, and the general public all provided answers to this intriguing question.

Starting with just their responses, NASA worked with 13 of the world's space agencies to develop a Global Exploration Strategy. The strategy explains why the global community believes we should explore space, how space exploration can benefit life on Earth, and how the moon can play a critical role in our exploration of the solar system. One of the primary activities the global space community pursued in 2006 was to answer the questions, "Why should we return to the moon?" and "What do we hope to accomplish through lunar exploration?"
NASA - Why The Moon?


Now as yo what we should do first, would you say that the employment situation is for the most part something that would need to be addressed soon? and if so programs like this address that in a very big way and the benefits as I have shown you far exceed the costs which are very small as an overall percentage of the budget. For example the just look at the recent 600 plus billion dollar defense budget that passed congress and compare that with NASA's budget, of around 8.17 Billion on average. Thats about the size of one program that Sen. Reid has in the Stimulus for building a high speed rail from Las Vegas to California. Want to know how much last year Americans spent on tobacco products? 88 billion dollars. So when you look at cancelling a program like Ares I after having already spent 3.1 billion when compared to the number of jobs and the sheer cost of having to rely on other nations to provide lift into space, it's not a lot of money for the benefits you get. I find it surprising that those who want the economy to prosper would be so quick to want to cut programs that actually employ people and stimulate the economy.

 

[The T]

...or we could fix the bridge in Mare Crisium on the Moon.

Did Ted Stevens Annex it on behalf of Alaska?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

and the supples we ferry into space come out of the mouths of who ?

Well if we had heavy industry interested in mining on mars in the USA.
they could make the capitol investment themselves, create jobs and really piss off environmentalist .
if we dont do it some Asian consortium will.
What did GE spend the stmulass money on junkets and bonuses?

 

[The T]

and the supples we ferry into space come out of the mouths of who ?

Well if we had heavy industry interested in mining on mars in the USA.
they could make the capitol investment themselves, create jobs and really piss off environmentalist .
if we dont do it some Asian consortium will.
What did GE spend the stmulass money on junkets and bonuses?

Hear-hear! (The poor Martians)...

Seriously? We should as the Human Race exploit the resources...

 

[dilloduck]

It seems to me bones that we only limit our possibilites when we say "can't" , how about finding out way's we "can do" then both are not beyond the possibility. It appears that these days if half the energy expended on the reasons why something can't be done, were applied to actual solutions and having a little more faith in the ability of Americans to solve problems themselves then we may be all much better off. Heck bones, more time is spent on talking about the problems than actually solving them it seems , and when we have started to move down the path of actually doing something worthwhile, we cancel it and cost even more money, its an endless cycle, and people wonder why the Govt. is so deep in debt.

Why throw good bucks after bad? What exactly IS the problem that we are trying to solve by going to the moon--again ? And is that the first problem we should be addressing ?

Actually dillo, that question was asked and answered by NASA , so I will point you to it.

If you asked 100 people why we should return to the moon, you'd probably get 100 answers - or more! Over the past year, NASA posed this question not just to 100 people, but to more than 1,000 from around the world. Scientists, engineers, commercial entrepreneurs, space advocates, and the general public all provided answers to this intriguing question.

Starting with just their responses, NASA worked with 13 of the world's space agencies to develop a Global Exploration Strategy. The strategy explains why the global community believes we should explore space, how space exploration can benefit life on Earth, and how the moon can play a critical role in our exploration of the solar system. One of the primary activities the global space community pursued in 2006 was to answer the questions, "Why should we return to the moon?" and "What do we hope to accomplish through lunar exploration?"
NASA - Why The Moon?


Now as yo what we should do first, would you say that the employment situation is for the most part something that would need to be addressed soon? and if so programs like this address that in a very big way and the benefits as I have shown you far exceed the costs which are very small as an overall percentage of the budget. For example the just look at the recent 600 plus billion dollar defense budget that passed congress and compare that with NASA's budget, of around 8.17 Billion on average. Thats about the size of one program that Sen. Reid has in the Stimulus for building a high speed rail from Las Vegas to California. Want to know how much last year Americans spent on tobacco products? 88 billion dollars. So when you look at cancelling a program like Ares I after having already spent 3.1 billion when compared to the number of jobs and the sheer cost of having to rely on other nations to provide lift into space, it's not a lot of money for the benefits you get. I find it surprising that those who want the economy to prosper would be so quick to want to cut programs that actually employ people and stimulate the economy.

Going to space to create jobs and a sense of global community ? Increase the sphere of human avtivity ? Seems like a smoke screen and a huge PR stunt to me. How many resources that could be used on Earth MAY be simply wasted in an attempt to chase rainbows and keep scientists happy ?

 

[Colin]

Why throw good bucks after bad? What exactly IS the problem that we are trying to solve by going to the moon--again ? And is that the first problem we should be addressing ?

Why waste all that money when the cow jumped over the moon so effortlessly. Perhaps some of the cash should be invested in finding that pair of elopers, the dish and the spoon!