theists, please give us the creation of man theory

[ding]

Not at all. The expansion of the universe happened.

That doesn't explain the creation of life. It's just an observation of movement and a guess at why it's happening.

We know that the elements for life are abundant in the universe, much of which is generated by the collapse and explosion of stars.

We all know that? No, you've been told that.
We've been to the moon.
Science has no credible explanation as to why cells inexplicably started to multiply and evolve into the complex life forms we see today. Why does life strive to survive and reproduce itself?

There's no magic or supernaturalism required.

That's an opinion. It can't be proven true or false. You don't know how life started, nor do I, nor do the scientists and religious leaders of the world. Don't allow yourself to be manipulated by those who know nothing more than you do regarding this.

The assumption and it is a huge assumption is that complex organic chemical chains resembling proteins folded themselves in just the correct sequence to create a self replicating RNA molecule.

The odds against this are staggering. But that's what they are left with. Personally I don't know how anyone who understands the science can't believe in a creator.

It's not an accident that a universe being created from nothing with the laws of nature hardwired to produce intelligence would pop into existence.

 

[ding]

could a theist please give us a concise theory of creation of man....in about 10 sentences
IF you have one
thank you

It's not an accident that a universe being created from nothing with the laws of nature hardwired to produce intelligence would pop into existence.

 

[Orangecat]

The assumption and it is a huge assumption is that complex organic chemical chains resembling proteins folded themselves in just the correct sequence to create a self replicating RNA molecule.

The odds against this are staggering. But that's what they are left with. Personally I don't know how anyone who understands the science can't believe in a creator.

It's not an accident that a universe being created from nothing with the laws of nature hardwired to produce intelligence would pop into existence.

You are a refreshing breath of logic and common sense. I totally agree, but with the devil's advocate caveat that, given eternity and infinite space, all things are possible (including god and explosions that create life). In the end, we're all just guessing.

 

[Penelope]

I see you admit the rest of you invented God.

Hmm. Now we have a report on your eyesight? It appears it is not very good at all. No, as I pointed out before. God is what we observe, not invented. I do get that some do not see. We observe that in nature as well.

but everyone else does, and that is why someone invented God and the rest of us

No I read you right.
What I mean by I'm intelligent enough to know:
-that storms are not from the Gods
- that I don't talk to anyone but myself, I don't imagine voices of Jesus or delusions.
- that illness or death is not from god.
- that I do not believe in the devil, but I think evil exists.
- and I don't believe everything that happens is for a master grand plan.
- and I don't believe in heaven or hell.
- etc.

 

[ding]

The assumption and it is a huge assumption is that complex organic chemical chains resembling proteins folded themselves in just the correct sequence to create a self replicating RNA molecule.

The odds against this are staggering. But that's what they are left with. Personally I don't know how anyone who understands the science can't believe in a creator.

It's not an accident that a universe being created from nothing with the laws of nature hardwired to produce intelligence would pop into existence.

You are a refreshing breathe of logic and common sense. I totally agree, but with the devil's advocate caveat that, given eternity and infinite space, all things are possible (including god and explosions that create life). In the end, we're all just guessing.

I would agree with a minor modification... all things that are possible. Not everything is possible. Just the things which exist as potential.

As for guessing... We can test it. It's a pretty simple test. Is your life better with God in it or with God not in it.

 

[Hollie]

Greek-Roman and Norse more than Babylonian. If you research your religion a bit, you will find direct lines connecting various religions with rituals, responsibilities of their respective gods and traditions common to most of them.

Have you invested much study in the Abrahamic gods? You might find it interesting that animal sacrifice in the Bible (as a way to appease the gods), has similarities to blót (animal sacrifice), in the Norse mythology.

The Romans were total hoots and were very liberal in their acceptance of many gods.

The above is not research. It barely seems to scan an article or two. Animal and human sacrifice is hardly confined to any one area--or continent, even. Ask pre-Columbian scholars.

The point is that humans from many cultures speak of a greater, more powerful Being than we are. Some (and it appears the Greek and Romans were among them) seemed to hold the belief that the powerful in this life rose to an even greater power in the next. Others associated God(s) with natural disasters and that God(s) could be appeased by human actions. Jewish literature tells the story of Abraham and he and his family were in the business of selling Gods (totems, statuary of animals, mainly, that were thought to contain the spirit of the image).

If I am recalling the story correctly, one day when Abraham was in charge of the shop, his father returned to find the shop in shambles. His father demanded to know what he had done, and Abraham pointed to the lone standing statue and said, "He did it." For some reason, his father did not believe this. Abraham, however, held onto the belief of one God, not many.

You may have misinterpretation my comment. I wasn’t intending to provide your research. The point is that many cultures created many gods to describe events in nature they could not explain. The Greeks had various gods which managed the forces of nature.

It’s no surprise that as mankind learned about nature, the gods which were invented to explain nature became fewer and fewer.

The ancient Romans were among the most transcendently superstitious people in human history.

Not only were the Romans completely tolerant of other nation's gods, they actually assumed that the other gods were also true. Admittedly, while they found the Egyptian gods more than a little weird, they still considered them ancient, powerful and real.

As Rome became a multinational empire and Rome the city became an international city, many foreign gods and goddesses had their own shrines built in the capital city itself. Roman citizens could worship any national gods they chose, but it remained commonly accepted that gods were most powerful in their own countries, or their own small geographies. For example even in Rome itself Jupiter Optimus Maximus could not supersede the influence of the local gods (“Lares”) that each governed their own crossroads, or family hearth. While public worship of the borrowed Greek pantheon was a community exercise, each family reserved the inside of their homes for private worship of their own family gods.

And in a spectacular admission of the incompleteness of their knowledge, the Romans also worshiped “the unknown god.” This was essentially praying to “the gods to be named at a future date” or the “to whom it may concern gods” in the explicit knowledge that nobody had exclusive or complete knowledge of the real nature of the godhead. Admittedly, this idea was borrowed (along with the formal state pantheon) from the earlier Greeks.

The Greeks even built a temple in Athens to this: Agnostos Theos. The inventor of Christianity, Paul, has a connection there. Have you done your research?

 

[Hollie]

Not at all. The expansion of the universe happened.

That doesn't explain the creation of life. It's just an observation of movement and a guess at why it's happening.

We know that the elements for life are abundant in the universe, much of which is generated by the collapse and explosion of stars.

We all know that? No, you've been told that.
We've been to the moon.
Science has no credible explanation as to why cells inexplicably started to multiply and evolve into the complex life forms we see today. Why does life strive to survive and reproduce itself?

There's no magic or supernaturalism required.

That's an opinion. It can't be proven true or false. You don't know how life started, nor do I, nor do the scientists and religious leaders of the world. Don't allow yourself to be manipulated by those who know nothing more than you do regarding this.

I never suggested the expansion of the universe created life, only that the chemical building blocks of life are produced in the universe.

And yes, denials aside, science has confirmed this.

Life's Building Blocks Are Found All Over Galaxy

Researchers find abundance of the molecule on which all known life depends: nitrogenated aromatics.

www.aps.org

Life's Building Blocks 'Abundant in Space'

The idea that comets and meteorites seeded an early Earth with the tools to make life has gained momentum from recent observations of some of these building blocks floating throughout the cosmos.

www.space.com

You can choose to ignore the data but the data still exists.


There’s nothing about life on the planet that requires magic or supernaturalism as an explanation.

 

[Orangecat]

I never suggested the expansion of the universe created life, only that the chemical building blocks of life are produced in the universe.

Creation of life is the thread topic. What's your point?

And yes, denials aside, science has confirmed this.

Theories are not proof. We can only speculate on what we haven't actually encountered and studied.

You can choose to ignore the data but the data still exists.

Data exists, theoretical conclusions based on it are not necessarily facts.

There’s nothing about life on the planet that requires magic or supernaturalism as an explanation.

How did replicating life begin? An explosion?

 

[ding]

How did replicating life begin? An explosion?

That is the question, right?

Whatever the answer is... it does appear that life did explode onto the scene after it began.

 

[Meriweather]

No I read you right.

Then let's try again. You said:

Men created the gods. They needed something to keep them in line and have laws and they were unintelligent in ancient times.

I asked if you needed God to keep you in line or if it was your position it was only everyone else who needs God to keep us in line. You responded that you are educated. Is it your position that theists are uneducated?

Basically, Penelope, your assertion that man created an imaginary power to keep himself in line hasn't a leg to stand on. First, you would need to show that the average person has no self-discipline and cannot keep him or herself in line. Then you would need to show that those who have little self-discipline want a superior power to keep them in line. Consider they may well prefer to color outside the box, figuratively speaking, and the last thing they would want would be to be kept in line.

All I am pointing out is that if you want to to theorize that man created God, the reasoning you present for man creating God is weak--at best. It also shows contempt of your fellow human beings.

 

[ding]

There’s nothing about life on the planet that requires magic or supernaturalism as an explanation.

The universe popping into existence hardwired to produce intelligence and life making the leap from inanimate matter come as close to miracles as there is.

Except for Jesus I can't think of any other.

 

[Penelope]

No I read you right.

Then let's try again. You said:

Men created the gods. They needed something to keep them in line and have laws and they were unintelligent in ancient times.

I asked if you needed God to keep you in line or if it was your position it was only everyone else who needs God to keep us in line. You responded that you are educated. Is it your position that theists are uneducated?

Basically, Penelope, your assertion that man created an imaginary power to keep himself in line hasn't a leg to stand on. First, you would need to show that the average person has no self-discipline and cannot keep him or herself in line. Then you would need to show that those who have little self-discipline want a superior power to keep them in line. Consider they may well prefer to color outside the box, figuratively speaking, and the last thing they would want would be to be kept in line.

All I am pointing out is that if you want to to theorize that man created God, the reasoning you present for man creating God is weak--at best. It also shows contempt of your fellow human beings.

How does God , Jesus keep you in line?? By promising heaven if you are good. I believe men created gods, they thought the storm gods were angry with them, like Evans do now.

 

[harmonica]

could a theist please give us a concise theory of creation of man....in about 10 sentences
IF you have one
thank you

It's not an accident that a universe being created from nothing with the laws of nature hardwired to produce intelligence would pop into existence.

that's not a creation of man theory

 

[harmonica]

No I read you right.

Then let's try again. You said:

Men created the gods. They needed something to keep them in line and have laws and they were unintelligent in ancient times.

I asked if you needed God to keep you in line or if it was your position it was only everyone else who needs God to keep us in line. You responded that you are educated. Is it your position that theists are uneducated?

Basically, Penelope, your assertion that man created an imaginary power to keep himself in line hasn't a leg to stand on. First, you would need to show that the average person has no self-discipline and cannot keep him or herself in line. Then you would need to show that those who have little self-discipline want a superior power to keep them in line. Consider they may well prefer to color outside the box, figuratively speaking, and the last thing they would want would be to be kept in line.

All I am pointing out is that if you want to to theorize that man created God, the reasoning you present for man creating God is weak--at best. It also shows contempt of your fellow human beings.

How does God , Jesus keep you in line?? By promising heaven if you are good. I believe men created gods, they thought the storm gods were angry with them, like Evans do now.

men DID create gods

 

[Hollie]

I never suggested the expansion of the universe created life, only that the chemical building blocks of life are produced in the universe.

Creation of life is the thread topic. What's your point?

And yes, denials aside, science has confirmed this.

Theories are not proof. We can only speculate on what we haven't actually encountered and studied.

You can choose to ignore the data but the data still exists.

Data exists, theoretical conclusions based on it are not necessarily facts.

There’s nothing about life on the planet that requires magic or supernaturalism as an explanation.

How did replicating life begin? An explosion?

The point is, nothing we understand about nature requires supernaturalism. Can you provide an example of a supernatural event?

There’s no speculation about the existence of life. We know with 100% certainty that life emerged on the planet. We know with certainty that the planet is billions of years old. We can explore how the beginnings of life were sparked by studying the processes that build life.

How do we study supernatural processes performed by gods that might have sparked life?

How did replicating life begin?

How Did Life Begin? RNA That Replicates Itself Indefinitely Developed For First Time

One of the most enduring questions is how life could have begun on Earth. Molecules that can make copies of themselves are thought to be crucial to understanding this process as they provide the basis for heritability, a critical characteristic of living systems. New findings could inform...

www.sciencedaily.com

Or, there’s always

The Gawds Did It

 

[harmonica]

No I read you right.

Then let's try again. You said:

Men created the gods. They needed something to keep them in line and have laws and they were unintelligent in ancient times.

I asked if you needed God to keep you in line or if it was your position it was only everyone else who needs God to keep us in line. You responded that you are educated. Is it your position that theists are uneducated?

Basically, Penelope, your assertion that man created an imaginary power to keep himself in line hasn't a leg to stand on. First, you would need to show that the average person has no self-discipline and cannot keep him or herself in line. Then you would need to show that those who have little self-discipline want a superior power to keep them in line. Consider they may well prefer to color outside the box, figuratively speaking, and the last thing they would want would be to be kept in line.

All I am pointing out is that if you want to to theorize that man created God, the reasoning you present for man creating God is weak--at best. It also shows contempt of your fellow human beings.

it's no assertion .....there is no --are no god/gods

 

[ding]

could a theist please give us a concise theory of creation of man....in about 10 sentences
IF you have one
thank you

It's not an accident that a universe being created from nothing with the laws of nature hardwired to produce intelligence would pop into existence.

that's not a creation of man theory

Sure it is. It's not an accident that a universe being created from nothing with the laws of nature hardwired to produce intelligence would pop into existence. That means it was intentional.

 

[harmonica]

I never suggested the expansion of the universe created life, only that the chemical building blocks of life are produced in the universe.

Creation of life is the thread topic. What's your point?

And yes, denials aside, science has confirmed this.

Theories are not proof. We can only speculate on what we haven't actually encountered and studied.

You can choose to ignore the data but the data still exists.

Data exists, theoretical conclusions based on it are not necessarily facts.

There’s nothing about life on the planet that requires magic or supernaturalism as an explanation.

How did replicating life begin? An explosion?

The point is, nothing we understand about nature requires supernaturalism. Can you provide an example of a supernatural event?

There’s no speculation about the existence of life. We know with 100% certainty that life emerged on the planet. We know with certainty that the planet is billions of years old. We can explore how the beginnings of life were sparked by studying the processes that build life.

How do we study supernatural processes performed by gods that might have sparked life?

good call

 

[ding]

No I read you right.

Then let's try again. You said:

Men created the gods. They needed something to keep them in line and have laws and they were unintelligent in ancient times.

I asked if you needed God to keep you in line or if it was your position it was only everyone else who needs God to keep us in line. You responded that you are educated. Is it your position that theists are uneducated?

Basically, Penelope, your assertion that man created an imaginary power to keep himself in line hasn't a leg to stand on. First, you would need to show that the average person has no self-discipline and cannot keep him or herself in line. Then you would need to show that those who have little self-discipline want a superior power to keep them in line. Consider they may well prefer to color outside the box, figuratively speaking, and the last thing they would want would be to be kept in line.

All I am pointing out is that if you want to to theorize that man created God, the reasoning you present for man creating God is weak--at best. It also shows contempt of your fellow human beings.

it's no assertion .....there is no --are no god/gods

You've never tested it. So you don't know that your life isn't better with God than without God.

 

[ding]

I never suggested the expansion of the universe created life, only that the chemical building blocks of life are produced in the universe.

Creation of life is the thread topic. What's your point?

And yes, denials aside, science has confirmed this.

Theories are not proof. We can only speculate on what we haven't actually encountered and studied.

You can choose to ignore the data but the data still exists.

Data exists, theoretical conclusions based on it are not necessarily facts.

There’s nothing about life on the planet that requires magic or supernaturalism as an explanation.

How did replicating life begin? An explosion?

The point is, nothing we understand about nature requires supernaturalism. Can you provide an example of a supernatural event?

There’s no speculation about the existence of life. We know with 100% certainty that life emerged on the planet. We know with certainty that the planet is billions of years old. We can explore how the beginnings of life were sparked by studying the processes that build life.

How do we study supernatural processes performed by gods that might have sparked life?

good call

The only way we can by studying what was created.