The U.S. Needs To Act Against Russian Threat To Ukraine!

[ESay]

Well, they have tried to walk in the middle now for the last 30 years. Neither joining NATO, nor the CIS. And has been seen a great many times over the centuries, if a country tries to walk in the middle without taking any sides it stands a good chance from getting hit from one side or the other. And sometimes, even by both sides.

The US tried that for well over a century, and still had gotten sucked into a great many wars, sometimes being targeted by both sides in a conflict. And after over 200 years had finally learned their lesson in that.

Do I hate what Russia is doing to the Ukraine, of course. But ultimately, Ukraine is the nation that never tried to form bonds and alliances for self-defense. And so long as they continue to do so, they are on their own.

And to be honest, I could not give a fig if Russia likes the Ukraine or any other nation joining NATO or not. They have no right to complain, no more than the US or anybody else has a right to complain if some nations decide to join the CIS. In fact, I also have been shaking my head and wondering why GUAM is not doing anything. They did create a "peacekeeping force", but it has done nothing.

Oh come on, GUAM was created primarily as a trading bloc. And its effectiveness remains under a serious question. More of that, Russia made it clear it wouldn't tolerate foreign peacekeepers there, even under the UN mandate. Even though, Ukraine proposed such initiative before.

According to the NATO rules, all serious political matters in this organization should be decided by an unanimous vote. That was my point. I doubt it will reach an unanimous decision in Ukraine's case.

 

[ESay]

Well, they have tried to walk in the middle now for the last 30 years. Neither joining NATO, nor the CIS. And has been seen a great many times over the centuries, if a country tries to walk in the middle without taking any sides it stands a good chance from getting hit from one side or the other. And sometimes, even by both sides.

The US tried that for well over a century, and still had gotten sucked into a great many wars, sometimes being targeted by both sides in a conflict. And after over 200 years had finally learned their lesson in that.

Do I hate what Russia is doing to the Ukraine, of course. But ultimately, Ukraine is the nation that never tried to form bonds and alliances for self-defense. And so long as they continue to do so, they are on their own.

And to be honest, I could not give a fig if Russia likes the Ukraine or any other nation joining NATO or not. They have no right to complain, no more than the US or anybody else has a right to complain if some nations decide to join the CIS. In fact, I also have been shaking my head and wondering why GUAM is not doing anything. They did create a "peacekeeping force", but it has done nothing.

And yes, you are right that Ukraine pursued 'multidimensional' foreign policy in the first decade of its independence. The Kuchma administration viewed that as their success in foreign relations.

But since the Yushchenko adm, so called Euro-Atlantic vector became dominant. Basically, it remained so even in the times of Yanukovich. And then he decided to make a U-turn virtually overnight, that cost him loosing his post.

 

[Mushroom]

Oh come on, GUAM was created primarily as a trading bloc. And its effectiveness remains under a serious question.

Does not matter, they did create a defense and peacekeeping organization. They simply have never used it.

And by the way, the EU has one also. Which rather interestingly since the withdrawal of the UK only has a single member that is a nuclear nation. And that is France.

Part of the concept of GUAM was not only economics and future growth, but also non-aligned nations helping to defend each other. Which none of them have ever chosen to do.

 

[ESay]

Does not matter, they did create a defense and peacekeeping organization. They simply have never used it.

And by the way, the EU has one also. Which rather interestingly since the withdrawal of the UK only has a single member that is a nuclear nation. And that is France.

Part of the concept of GUAM was not only economics and future growth, but also non-aligned nations helping to defend each other. Which none of them have ever chosen to do.

GUAM hasn't become a viable organization for a number of reasons. Joint military forces were never organized, and its economic part remained mostly on the paper. Now, this organization has lost its actuality completely and only a few remember it.

 

[Ringo]

Do I hate what Russia is doing to the Ukraine, of course.

Of course, Like any progressive and independent - minded person, you should certainly feel this feeling.
But still, could you describe these undoubtedly terrible things, that Russia is doing to Ukraine?

 

[Silver Cat]

Of course, Like any progressive and independent - minded person, you should certainly feel this feeling.
But still, could you describe these undoubtedly terrible things, that Russia is doing to Ukraine?

May be, Russia continues to pay them two gigabucks a year for gas transit, and still allow them to play with their nuclear plants, terrifying the whole Europe with the possibility of another Chernobyl?

 

[Mushroom]

Of course, Like any progressive and independent - minded person, you should certainly feel this feeling.

Good lord, you are such a patronizing piece of filth.

Sorry, don't work with me. You attack anybody that is not in agreement with you, then fawn and kiss butt whenever somebody agrees with you.

Funny, I could almost swear you were calling me a neocon and almost a far-right racist butcher not all that long ago. Now suddenly I am "progressive".

Dude, just STFU. You do not know me, oy stance, or my beliefs in anything. And your sycophantic behavior is exactly that, and anybody with eyes can see it for what it is.

 

[Ringo]

And your sycophantic behavior is exactly that, and anybody with eyes can see it for what it is.

So many words and still nothing about terrible things Russia doing to poor Ukraine...

 

[Ringo]

Funny, I could almost swear you were calling me a neocon and almost a far-right racist butcher not all that long ago. Now suddenly I am "progressive".

I don't understand the kinds of shit or the difference between American politicians. for me, the whole political American sewer is a pile of shit. Stupid, evil shit. Everything is clear with the Democrats. but here's a Republican. it seems to be a military man, offering something that the last cretin would not have invented...

Senator brings up nuclear strikes when asked about possible US action against Russia

Mississippi senator and Armed Forces panel member suggests massive war with Russia

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Silver Cat]

I don't understand the kinds of shit or the difference between American politicians. for me, the whole political American sewer is a pile of shit. Stupid, evil shit. Everything is clear with the Democrats. but here's a Republican. it seems to be a military man, offering something that the last cretin would not have invented...

Senator brings up nuclear strikes when asked about possible US action against Russia

Mississippi senator and Armed Forces panel member suggests massive war with Russia

www.independent.co.uk

Really?
What about Vladimir Putin?

 

[Silver Cat]

I don't understand the kinds of shit or the difference between American politicians. for me, the whole political American sewer is a pile of shit. Stupid, evil shit. Everything is clear with the Democrats. but here's a Republican. it seems to be a military man, offering something that the last cretin would not have invented...

Senator brings up nuclear strikes when asked about possible US action against Russia

Mississippi senator and Armed Forces panel member suggests massive war with Russia

www.independent.co.uk

Question is not just about Ukraine (f-k it). Question is much more about the USA: "What are we? The trembling creatures or do we have the right? " Are we first among equals, or first without equals?

 

[Mushroom]

So many words and still nothing about terrible things Russia doing to poor Ukraine

Does not matter, because until the Ukraine starts to ask for International help and make agreements for defense, there is nothing to do and they are entirely on their own.

The ball in in their court, it has always been in their court. But nobody can do anything about it short of an invasion themselves.

That is not how it works.

 

[Mushroom]

the whole political American sewer is a pile of shit

If that is true, then what in the hell are you doing here? If we, our politicians, and our opinions matter so little, why do you blather on so?

Seems like nothing but mental masturbation to me.

 

[Mushroom]

"What are we? The trembling creatures or do we have the right? "

To me, it is also majorly about self-determination.

Nobody has the right to move into a country without permission outside of very specific circumstances. And one of the major ones is being asked to provide assistance.

The Ukraine has repeatedly asked nobody for help, has offered help to nobody. They are an isolationist nation, that neither wants nor offers help. Yes, it sucks that they are being attacked by Russia. But here is the thing, what are they doing about it?

Well, not a hell of a lot. Whining and crying, and that is about it. Now if they were to actually ask for assistance, then I would at least consider it. But not the US, not the UN, not NATO, not the EU, nobody has the right to get involved without that invitation.

I would no more get involved in the Ukraine at this time than I would suggest that the Illinois National Guard be mobilized to patrol the streets of Chicago. The Mayor has not asked for that, so doing so short of that would be wrong.

 

[Markle]

It has been reported in the Washington Post (on Dec. 3 of this year) that American intelligence is assessing the ultimate size of the Russian military force amassing on the Ukrainian border at one-hundred and seventy-five thousand troops the number is already over 100K, many people think this is an omen that the country of Russia will invade Ukraine and annex it. The world has already seen how Russian President Putin stole Ukrainian territory in Russia's military conquest of Crimea in the last ten years; the media has well reported that Vladimir Putin doesn't think of Ukraine as a sovereign country but rather as part of Mother Russia. Wisdom calls for acting like Russia's invasion of Ukraine is imminent. Now America has this segment of Americans that says we shouldn't funnel huge amounts of military equipment to the country of Ukraine to defend itself against Russian aggression because doing so will provoke Russian Vladimir Putin to attack Ukraine because he will argue that America massively arming the Ukrainian army poses a security threat to Russia because Ukraine is on Russia's border so Russia has to invade and conquer Ukraine to eliminate this military threat. The proper thinking on this issue is we're past the stage of worrying about provoking Putin his amassing 175K troops on Ukrainian border should be interpreted that he is intending to invade and conquer Ukraine.

I am not a military expert and have no background in the military but I believe that America should be outstandingly generous in giving military equipment to Ukraine in order to help that country defend itself, be outstandingly accommodating to the Ukraine military leadership's request for assistance in this area. My reasoning is that the Ukrainian people are a good people over the last ten years with this ongoing Russian conflict America has had many contacts with the Ukrainian people and learned they are a good people that deserve their sovereign rights that being the right to their own country. Further, with the world struggling to come out of the Covid 19 pandemic with European countries trying to rebuild their economies which took a terrible hit from this disease the last thing in the world Europe needs is Russia conducting military expansionism and taking over the huge European country of Ukraine. Plus, the world doesn't need to go backwards to Cold War times with a Russian Empire in Eastern Europe America needs to make an outstanding effort to not go back to this security nightmare!

In regards to the issue of whether or not U.S. military personnel should be utilized to defend the country of Ukraine from a military attack from Russia. Ordinarily, I would say no the country of Ukraine is the Ukrainian citizens country it is not the American citizens country American men and women should not give their life defending Ukraine sovereignty it is the Ukrainian citizens duty to make this sacrifice. If America had a Treaty or Treaty like obligation to Ukraine that would be a different story, obviously Ukraine isn't in the Nato alliance so there is no Nato Treaty obligation; there is a matter of an agreement between America in conjunction with a whole bunch of other countries and the country of Ukraine to get Ukraine to disarm all nuclear weapons after the Cold War ended, I don't know the details of that agreement so I have no comment on that issue. But I do think that at the present time the times are extraordinary which does warrant America getting involved in a military conflict related to Russia invading Ukraine albeit in a limited manner. The reasoning goes like this if Russia invades and conquers Ukraine that is going to create a gigantic tidal wave of refugees flooding into Europe, the refugee numbers will range in the hundreds of thousands if not millions not only will this cause grave economic hardship on European countries but this will cause division between these countries (because some countries will not take these refugees or as many that need to be taken) likely so severe that it could threaten the NATO military alliance this cannot be allowed to happen America needs NATO to exist and be a strong and reliable alliance, no other option can be tolerated, so America must act on this Russia invasion matter to protect and preserve the NATO alliance. Specifically what is meant here is not deploying U.S. ground troops on Ukrainian soil what is meant here is if the Russian military invades Ukraine, U.S. air power will be used to slow, weaken and hopefully stop the invasion. U.S. air planes should be used to bomb the advancing Russian tank and troop columns; the Ukrainian military is at least a respectable modern military (they've comported themselves well in the fighting on the Eastern Ukraine border against the Russian proxies over the last eight years) with U.S. air power assistance they should be able to at least stop any Russian military invasion if not repel it out of the country of Ukraine!

Why?

Specifically what stratigic importance is Ukraine? Other than the fact that they pay Hunter Biden a huge amount of money for..?

 

[Ringo]

If that is true, then what in the hell are you doing here? If we, our politicians, and our opinions matter so little, why do you blather on so?

Unfortunately, these politicians have the means of mass destruction in their hands. therefore, they have to be reckoned with.

 

[Markle]

How long has a Republican been believing the Washington post?
That's a turn up for the books or maybe cherry picking to make Biden look weak.
Try Again.

As you know, President Biden does not LOOK weak!

 

[Markle]

Really? I remember russians gave Alaska to US, but don't remember any american politician having something to do with giving Crimea to Russia... As far as I remember, the colonies were still fighting with Britain for independence, when Crimea became part of Russia...

We purchased Alaska from Russia.

 

[Ringo]

We purchased Alaska from Russia.

Did you purchase 13 original colonies? Or did you just steal them illegally by force, with the help of foreigners?

 

[Mushroom]

We purchased Alaska from Russia.

For over $17 million in fact.