The Trinity

[Eightball]

yup.. STILL enjoying this thread.

You'll need more than popcorn when the end-product plays out. I'd be ordering an asbestos suit.......

 

[Shogun]

You'll need more than popcorn when the end-product plays out. I'd be ordering an asbestos suit.......

oh now.. you wouldnt be the first thumper to threaten some upcoming annialiation of us non-believers, now would you?


people like me will still be eating popcorn long after your particular flavor of dogma comes and goes and eventually morphs into whatever it will become...


I mean, hell.. you DO realize that biblical believers thought the return would happen well within their lifetime, eh? We ALL lived past the year 2000. We've seen the same claim during the 1900s.. I guess im just not impressed.


Still, I do so enjoy watching denominations swing pillows at each other and accuse others of misinterpreting the bible and being the puppets of the debil!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

oh now.. you wouldnt be the first thumper to threaten some upcoming annialiation of us non-believers, now would you?


people like me will still be eating popcorn long after your particular flavor of dogma comes and goes and eventually morphs into whatever it will become...


I mean, hell.. you DO realize that biblical believers thought the return would happen well within their lifetime, eh? We ALL lived past the year 2000. We've seen the same claim during the 1900s.. I guess im just not impressed.


Still, I do so enjoy watching denominations swing pillows at each other and accuse others of misinterpreting the bible and being the puppets of the debil!

Every turn of a Century sees an increase in "religious" activity. I believe it has to do with people thinking some new is coming.

The only 3 years I am concerned with were 2004, 2008 and 2012. Nothing happened in 2004 , this year is not over yet and of course 2012 has not come.

But those are just informed guesses. God tells us we can not know the end till it is upon us. The signs will indicate what is happening.

 

[Eightball]

oh now.. you wouldnt be the first thumper to threaten some upcoming annialiation of us non-believers, now would you?

people like me will still be eating popcorn long after your particular flavor of dogma comes and goes and eventually morphs into whatever it will become...


I mean, hell.. you DO realize that biblical believers thought the return would happen well within their lifetime, eh? We ALL lived past the year 2000. We've seen the same claim during the 1900s.. I guess im just not impressed.

Still, I do so enjoy watching denominations swing pillows at each other and accuse others of misinterpreting the bible and being the puppets of the debil!

Those that predict years, days, whatever are giving you a "bum" steer. If you think they speak for mainstream biblical Christianity then you really have your head in an ostrich hole..........Even Jesus Himself said that the "end" date was not His to reveal, but He did give a few hints in the form of "happenings" throughout the world.

So, I don't know, and any biblical Christian knows that it could be tomorrow, or a thousand years from now. Anyone that gives a date or year, is totally unscriptural.

So your example is moot........it belongs to crackpots (Those that claim some special knowledge that the rest of Christians weren't deemed worthy to behold from God) who claim to know the mind of God..........and don't read His manual.

Just a couple years ago, Harold Camping, the founder of Family Radio, A Christian radio network that is all over the country and usually carried on AM radio, predicted the "end" back a couple years ago. Well, he has a lot of egg on his face, and he also lost his credentials as a valid spokesman/preacher/reverend of the bible. Sadly, many Christians still embrace Pastor Campings teachings. He also teaches that all Christians should leave their denominations/churches and not attend, as Satan now basically has control of all Christian churches. The man is paranoid, and is a false teacher.

Again, as Jesus succinctly said, watch for the "signs" much as a sailor watches the sky for signs of an impending storm at sea. "Red sky at night a sailor's delight, red sky in the morning, sailor take warning."

There is an actually meteorlogical thing to that saying, as morning sun shine from the East, and cloud cover to the East can mean a moving low pressure area towards one's direction.

Anyway, it was Jesus' way of communicating to the people, to be alert in the future, as His second advent was coming after His resurrection. His second advent wasn't going to be as "healer, and bringer of salvation" but as Judge.

So you can sit back and eat your Ready-Pop, and play the perverbial violin during the Spring/Summer/Fall. That's your God allowed, and blessed free-will. It's also your blessed free-will to mock those that tell about Jesus and His salvation/redemption of mankind.
*******
Thumper? Well I guess it isn't to bad a name........Bambi's best friend was Thumper the Rabbit. He was a nice sort a friend.
*****

 

[Anguille]

ohhhhhhh I know her !!!

Never mind .

In the biblical way?


(Sorry, the devil made me do it)

 

[Shogun]

Those that predict years, days, whatever are giving you a "bum" steer. If you think they speak for mainstream biblical Christianity then you really have your head in an ostrich hole..........Even Jesus Himself said that the "end" date was not His to reveal, but He did give a few hints in the form of "happenings" throughout the world.

So, I don't know, and any biblical Christian knows that it could be tomorrow, or a thousand years from now. Anyone that gives a date or year, is totally unscriptural.

So your example is moot........it belongs to crackpots (Those that claim some special knowledge that the rest of Christians weren't deemed worthy to behold from God) who claim to know the mind of God..........and don't read His manual.

Just a couple years ago, Harold Camping, the founder of Family Radio, A Christian radio network that is all over the country and usually carried on AM radio, predicted the "end" back a couple years ago. Well, he has a lot of egg on his face, and he also lost his credentials as a valid spokesman/preacher/reverend of the bible. Sadly, many Christians still embrace Pastor Campings teachings. He also teaches that all Christians should leave their denominations/churches and not attend, as Satan now basically has control of all Christian churches. The man is paranoid, and is a false teacher.

Again, as Jesus succinctly said, watch for the "signs" much as a sailor watches the sky for signs of an impending storm at sea. "Red sky at night a sailor's delight, red sky in the morning, sailor take warning."

There is an actually meteorlogical thing to that saying, as morning sun shine from the East, and cloud cover to the East can mean a moving low pressure area towards one's direction.

Anyway, it was Jesus' way of communicating to the people, to be alert in the future, as His second advent was coming after His resurrection. His second advent wasn't going to be as "healer, and bringer of salvation" but as Judge.

So you can sit back and eat your Ready-Pop, and play the perverbial violin during the Spring/Summer/Fall. That's your God allowed, and blessed free-will. It's also your blessed free-will to mock those that tell about Jesus and His salvation/redemption of mankind.
*******
Thumper? Well I guess it isn't to bad a name........Bambi's best friend was Thumper the Rabbit. He was a nice sort a friend.
*****

oh im QUITE aware of the ambiguity of the supposed return, sir. it's one facet of the humor when I see dogma junkies wielding the Return stick like a threat. Now, to me, it's kinda like hearing wimpy insist that he'll pay you on tuesday for a hamburger today.. we all know wimpy is full of shit and just wants a hamburger. Likewise, regardless of the cyclical carrot being dangled in front of your faith the FACT remains that your great great great great great great greaty great great great infinitum grandkids will see about as much salvation fruit as we see of Grecian dogma. Hell, one of the rich ironies about the original trinity/unity argument is that the second covenant is basically a hijacking of the ORIGINAL hebrew religion which morphs the believe system into some new beast entirely despite.. which, again, once your prediction fails to manifest will happen to your particular flavour of christianity... as it always has.


I'll quote Malachi Constant and insist that "I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."

 

[AllieBaba]

Beside the fact the bible states repeatedly that we will not know the day...

 

[Anguille]

I'll quote Malachi Constant and insist that "I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."

Agreed,
Only in your case, you were accidentally dropped on your head a few more times than I was.

 

[Shogun]

Agreed,
Only in your case, you were accidentally dropped on your head a few more times than I was.

and yet im STILL able to face the scientific fact of genetics and DNA.. I guess that says a lil something about my superior genes, eh?

 

[Eightball]

Beside the fact the bible states repeatedly that we will not know the day...

Exactly!!!

 

[Shogun]

no one knows the day santa will climb down the chimney either. We can all pretend fairy tales have roots in reality while predicting future manifestations...

 

[Hum Dinger]

I take exception with the notion that the entire Bible must be accepted as a whole. It was compiled at the orders of Emporer Constantine, by men. Though you may argue that any one of the Books contained within are devinely inspired, the process of compiling these books certainly was not devinely inspired. It was very political. In fact the Bible was created simultaneously and is part and parcle with the Roman Catholic Churh. I was raised Catholic, but I wonder how all the non-Catholic denominations reconcile this.

To me, personally, I believe that the Bible is more the history of the social evolution of the Jewish people. In the beginning they were a brutally, barbaric, primitive people. They had more in common with modern day terrorists that modern day Christians. (I don't believe in miracles - Why would God defy his own laws of physics to accomplish his goals? I don't think He does - if He had to defy His laws of physics, then it would show that he was imperfect when He created them)

There is a constant change in the philosophy of the Jewish people (How many times did God promise to them that He was not going to do this or that nasty thing again?). This justs marks their own evolutionary understanding of God, not a change in God.

Finally, Jesus introduced a radical break with all previous Jewish philosophy. Does God change philosophies? Is there no constant moral philosophy? If so it seems that religion is entirely a waste of time.

The philosophy of Moses (didn't he put quite a few people to the sword?) has nothing to do with the philosophy of Jesus. The God of Moses is more like the God of Osama Bin Laden than the God of Jesus.

Maybe it's just a constantly evolving understanding of God, and thru that morality, from that of primitives to that of Mankind that is all the Bible is about. Maybe that's why Jesus called Himself the "Son of Man".

 

[Hum Dinger]

BTW,

In reply to an earlier question. I have known satanists, they tried to indoctrinate me, mostly thru force of personality/intimidation type methods. They did not identfy themselves as Satanists, but just as 'spiritual people'. I do not like them and disassociated myself with them.

But the experience was interesting. It taught me, if anything the difference between relative and absolute morality. The basis of Judeo-Christianity is absolute morality. (satanists would believe that it is O.K. for them to steal from you, but if you steal from them, then you are evil).

They were friends in my Rock n' Roll days. Just as I was realizing their nature, I had some fun with them. First we started to get drunk on wine (and smoked some pot). Then I pulled out a loaf of fresh bread and stared sharing it with them. Finally, I brought up the subject of 'Jesus'. When they realized what was going on they scattered like a bunch of roaches. It was funny. My relationship with them didn't go so well after that.

 

[Care4all]

I take exception with the notion that the entire Bible must be accepted as a whole. It was compiled at the orders of Emporer Constantine, by men. Though you may argue that any one of the Books contained within are devinely inspired, the process of compiling these books certainly was not devinely inspired. It was very political. In fact the Bible was created simultaneously and is part and parcle with the Roman Catholic Churh. I was raised Catholic, but I wonder how all the non-Catholic denominations reconcile this.

To me, personally, I believe that the Bible is more the history of the social evolution of the Jewish people. In the beginning they were a brutally, barbaric, primitive people. They had more in common with modern day terrorists that modern day Christians. (I don't believe in miracles - Why would God defy his own laws of physics to accomplish his goals? I don't think He does - if He had to defy His laws of physics, then it would show that he was imperfect when He created them)

There is a constant change in the philosophy of the Jewish people (How many times did God promise to them that He was not going to do this or that nasty thing again?). This justs marks their own evolutionary understanding of God, not a change in God.

Finally, Jesus introduced a radical break with all previous Jewish philosophy. Does God change philosophies? Is there no constant moral philosophy? If so it seems that religion is entirely a waste of time.

The philosophy of Moses (didn't he put quite a few people to the sword?) has nothing to do with the philosophy of Jesus. The God of Moses is more like the God of Osama Bin Laden than the God of Jesus.

Maybe it's just a constantly evolving understanding of God, and thru that morality, from that of primitives to that of Mankind that is all the Bible is about. Maybe that's why Jesus called Himself the "Son of Man".

Well, Jesus himself said that NOT ONE PART of the LAw was being abolished by Him....that He came to fulfill the Law, the old testament...and its prophesy....and promise to the Jews.

and yes the Bible is like a History Book, but to think that the Council of bishops from around the world who gathered the books and put the Bible together was unforseen by our Omni past, present and future God is underestimating God imo.

yes, it is possible that inspired books did not make it in to the Bible, and it is possible that books made it in to the Bible that don't belong there, perhaps....

But whatever happened, it happened for a reason and certainly with the knowledge of God.....us men and women can make all the speculations we like on what belongs in the Bible and what doesn't, but one thing is for certain, the New Testament means NOTHING, without the Old Testament...imo.

care

 

[Hum Dinger]

Maybe Jesus didn't come to fulfill the ancient Jewish law. Maybe he came to straighten out their dumb A$$es. His message contradicts ancient Jewish law in so many ways...it's a whole different philosophy. Non-nationalistic, forgiving, non-condemning, Apolitical (very apolitical...too bad American christians don't seem to get that). Very different.

You may believe that the Bible was compiled under the infinite wisdom of God's omnipresence, but it is more likely that it's compilation was influenced by people of very evil intent. Perhaps intended to camofluage the message of Jesus with so much of other nonsense that very little, if any of the message got thru.

Even Adolf Hilter justified himself with Bible quotes. What's just as bad is those people who, instead of taken what is written verbatim, decide (convenient to their own personal beliefs), that what they don't like is "symbolic" and then freely interpert it any way they choose.

Peter was a confused pup who created a church based on people not propagating, Paul was an infiltrator, a self-appointed Apostle that perverted Christianity to his own liking, neither were divine.

What happened to all of the other Apostles? What happened to that one that was elected to replace Judas? Did they all just fade away? Did Jesus' work with them only to have their legacy disappear? If they have a legacy, they and their tradition had no part of the creation of the Bible.

 

[Care4all]

like i said, it is possible that the word of God was manipulated through the hands of men...and the Bible itself mentions that this was taking place as it was being writen...and warnings of not messing with its context by adding to it or taking away from it, so this means God was well aware of man's ill doings....i'm not arguing against such....

what i don't understand under your kind of religious belief, is what do you believe and what don't you believe when it comes to the Bible books, and is it just you and you alone, that gets to choose the inspired books, and the ones that are not?

that would be hard for me to do....

care

 

[RetiredGySgt]

He is not a believer, well except that which he finds convenient. The Bible IS in fact an inspired creation.

I used to make that mistake as well, claiming that because man made it it was tainted, BUT the bible is and was inspired by God. Just as the individual books are all from men inspired by God, so was the Council that put it together.

This is nothing more than what we are warned about. That in the last days lies and misinformation would be spread and attacks on God and the Bible would increase. We even have false Bibles out now. Changed to eliminate "man" and replace it with non gender or female gender words. As well as at least one that is supposedly adapted to modern language. Rather than simply translating from the original to English the editors changed it to be more "modern".

The King James is a correct rendition from the original languages.

 

[Eightball]

Maybe Jesus didn't come to fulfill the ancient Jewish law. Maybe he came to straighten out their dumb A$$es. His message contradicts ancient Jewish law in so many ways...it's a whole different philosophy. Non-nationalistic, forgiving, non-condemning, Apolitical (very apolitical...too bad American christians don't seem to get that). Very different.

You may believe that the Bible was compiled under the infinite wisdom of God's omnipresence, but it is more likely that it's compilation was influenced by people of very evil intent. Perhaps intended to camofluage the message of Jesus with so much of other nonsense that very little, if any of the message got thru.

Even Adolf Hilter justified himself with Bible quotes. What's just as bad is those people who, instead of taken what is written verbatim, decide (convenient to their own personal beliefs), that what they don't like is "symbolic" and then freely interpert it any way they choose.

Peter was a confused pup who created a church based on people not propagating, Paul was an infiltrator, a self-appointed Apostle that perverted Christianity to his own liking, neither were divine.

What happened to all of the other Apostles? What happened to that one that was elected to replace Judas? Did they all just fade away? Did Jesus' work with them only to have their legacy disappear? If they have a legacy, they and their tradition had no part of the creation of the Bible.

You can conjecture all you want about what you think Jesus' intentions were, but the scripture leaves no doubt.

If the scriptures have been intact for thousands of years without being corrupted........as attested-too by the nearly 2,000 year old Isaiah scroll that was found in the Dead Sea caves, I'd say you, Richard are dealing with an omnipotent God, who is protecting the accuracy of his inspired scripture through the ages.

 

[Eightball]

He is not a believer, well except that which he finds convenient. The Bible IS in fact an inspired creation.

I used to make that mistake as well, claiming that because man made it it was tainted, BUT the bible is and was inspired by God. Just as the individual books are all from men inspired by God, so was the Council that put it together.

This is nothing more than what we are warned about. That in the last days lies and misinformation would be spread and attacks on God and the Bible would increase. We even have false Bibles out now. Changed to eliminate "man" and replace it with non gender or female gender words. As well as at least one that is supposedly adapted to modern language. Rather than simply translating from the original to English the editors changed it to be more "modern".

The King James is a correct rendition from the original languages.

Please don't take this as a bash......I truly respect you as a member/person.........but when you said that the bible is inspired by God and accurate, you are going to be against your church's doctrinal stance, as they teach against your beliefs in the area of the scripture's being inspired and non-corrupted because of God's omnipotent power to do so with His protection.

Every Mormon missionary that comes to my door emphasizes that the King James is not accurate, anymore, and thus Joseph Smith's revelations from Moroni had to get things back in order. That flys in the face of you beliefs that the bible is God inspired/protected.

Not trying to proselytize you out of the LDS church, but you might check some websites of ex-Mormons for Jesus. There some great insight there.

My family background is very Mormon on my Dad's side. They go way back to Salt Lake, and my grandfather who was an Episcapalean actually helped build the Mormon Tabernacle. His wife, my grandmother was Mormon. Also Grandpa owned two saloons in Salt Lake back in the late 1800's-early 1900's.

I actually did work with the Ex-Mormon's for Jesus ministry back when I was attending bible college.

 

[morpheus]

And yes I am a Christian, though some of you think Mormons are not.

I take it you're Mormon?

It can be argued -and I agree with the viewpoint that- Mormons are an offshot of Christianity but are not a Christian sect. The differences between Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Orthodox, Anglican, Calvinism, Baptist, etc, lie in interpretation of some Biblical passages and liturgical tradition. Mormons, on the other habd, have departed from the New Testament altogether, believing that it's corrupted, and abiding by a new scripture of their own (the Book of Mormon), and a wide range theological-historical accounts not mentioned anywhere in the Old nor New Testaments. We can argue that Mormonism is to Christianity what Christianity is to Judaism: an offshoot, but not the same thing as the original. Mormonism, we can say, is an entirely separate Arbahamic religion, having the same relationship with Christianity as Judaism and Islam do.