Zone1 The Ten Commandments don't apply to us.

[hobelim]

It is not the most plausible opinion. Floods are common trope among ancient myths, all localized to that individual region only.

So you disregard the Burckle crater which would have cause all of the descriptions in the bible about a worldwide deluge, including "the fountains of the deep opened up" which is the most plausible natural explanation possible given that there are over 300 myths from every continent around the world about a mind boggling deluge. Okey dokey. Rube.

Only a meteor strike on the ocean could have caused water to rise up from the sea into and beyond the stratosphere, explaining the verse, "the fountains of the deep opened up."

 

[Woodznutz]

Doesn't it?

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 7 - New International Version

The LORD then said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, and also seven pairs of...

www.biblegateway.com

19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered.
20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.
21 Every living thing that moved on land perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind.
22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died.
23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds

The Hebrew word for mountain also means hill, or hill country. The narrative jumps suddenly from high hills to mountains. This is the work of the translators and doesn't follow the context of the story. People lived in hills or the hill country, not in the mountains.

The translators took some liberties, thankfully we have the Hebrew and Greek dictionaries to keep on eye on them.

 

[hobelim]

How am I a white supremacist. God holds all members of our race as equal before him. It does not matter what a Jane or a fundamentalist Mormon, e.g., thinks. You know that.

I said that Blacks and Puerto Ricans have the least amount of Neanderthal DNA.

A nice factoid for all you white supremacists out there.


I was responding to The Irish Ram who made the ridiculous claim that 8 people in the middle east were the only one with pure human DNA. I wasn't even calling her a white supremacist and never said that you were a white supremacist. It is revealing that you took it personally.

Very.

See how that works?

 

[Woodznutz]

That's a False Teaching of many "Christian Sects".

There are many Scriptures that absolutely prove that what Your topic states, is WRONG.

But go directly to He, whom they proclaim to Believe in Stated.:

Mat 19:16 Behold, one came to him and said, “Good teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?”
Mat 19:17 He said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Will they call The Messiah (Christ) a Liar?

There are many who keep the commandments but don't accept Jesus Christ as savior. Are they saved by the Law?

Note that the young nobleman went away sorrowing, because he wouldn't give up his wealth, and he didn't accept Jesus as the 'messiah'.

 

[Bad Bob]

Look it up for yourself you lazy bastard.

I did. I can't find the data correlating the dates and obviously you don't know either.

The fact you immediately devolved into name-calling when called on it is proof you've reached your intellectual limit. Sad, but expected.

 

[ding]

Let's get Hobelim involved with the above and watch the cat's fur fly.

hobelim is a textbook example of a sophist.

 

[hobelim]

I did. I can't find the data correlating the dates and obviously you don't know either.

The fact you immediately devolved into name-calling when called on it is proof you've reached your intellectual limit. Sad, but expected.

Oh please. Sad?

There was nothing immediate about reaching the limit of my patience pointing out the obvious. No one can help someone who is not honest humble or willing to help themselves.

The story of Noah + the Burckle crater + over 300 myths on every continent about a worldwide deluge = a meteor or asteroid impact on the Indian ocean, whatever the date.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

Oh, you a sophist, not a believer.

Not a "Sophist" at all, & I Believe in YAH more so than the Majority of those who proclaim to Believe.

 

[ding]

There was nothing immediate about reaching the limit of my patience pointing out the obvious.

No one can help someone who is not honest intelligent enough or willing to help themselves.

So it's their fault you weren't able to convince them?

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

No one is saying the Founders were against a "god", except maybe Ethan Allen.

My statements are a Foundation, for The Truthseeker, that eventually will see, that The Ten Commandments Covenant was, & is Eternal.

 

[hobelim]

So it's their fault you weren't able to convince them?

I am not trying to convince anyone. I merely pointed out the most plausible explanation for the story of Noah that conforms to and is confirmed by actual reality in the natural world.

I am always amused when someone doesn't understand what I said in plain language accuses me of not making sense or accuses me of failing to convince someone who has confused faith with obstinate stupidity, about something obvious, as if that was indicative of a flaw in me.

 

[rosends]

You defines no one's position, so there will be no response to that.

Next.

Avoid it if you must. That's your prerogative.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

There are many who keep the commandments but don't accept Jesus Christ as savior. Are they saved by the Law?

Note that the young nobleman went away sorrowing, because he wouldn't give up his wealth, and he didn't accept Jesus as the 'messiah'.

If One kept the first 4 Commandments then they would believe in The Almighty LORD GOD

As far as "Jesus Christ",or Yahshuah HaMashiach,...... There are multiple thousands, if not hundreds of thouands of widely different Beliefs, be it found in "Judaism" Catholicism, and it's thousands of "Breakaway Daughters"

What The Messiah stated here, is Far Deeper, & Important, than what the Religions of "Judaism", Catholicism, & "Christianity" teach, and the Majority of those "LOrd Proclaimers" Ignore it.:

Jhn_10:30 I and the Father are one.”

Isa 40:25 “To whom then will you liken me? Who is my equal?” says the Holy One.

Isa 41:4 Who has worked and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I, Yahweh, the first, and with the last, I am he.”
Isa 41:14 Don’t be afraid, you worm Jacob, and you men of Israel. I will help you,” says Yahweh, “and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 41:16 You will winnow them, and the wind will carry them away, and the whirlwind will scatter them. You will rejoice in Yahweh. You will glory in the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 42:8 “I am Yahweh. That is my name. I will not give my glory to another, nor my praise to engraved images.
Isa 43:1 But now Yahweh who created you, Jacob, and he who formed you, Israel says: “Don’t be afraid, for I have redeemed you. I have called you by your name. You are mine.
Isa 43:2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they will not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned, and flame will not scorch you.
Isa 43:3 For I am Yahweh your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior. I have given Egypt as your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in your place.

Isa 43:11 I myself am Yahweh; and besides me there is no savior.
Isa 43:12 I have declared, I have saved, and I have shown; and there was no strange god among you. Therefore you are my witnesses”, says Yahweh, “and I am God.
Isa 43:13 Yes, since the day was, I am he; and there is no one who can deliver out of my hand. I will work, and who can hinder it?”
Isa 43:14 Yahweh, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel says: “For your sake, I have sent to Babylon, and I will bring all of them down as fugitives, even the Chaldeans, in the ships of their rejoicing.
Isa 43:15 I am Yahweh, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King.”
Isa 43:25 I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake; and I will not remember your sins.
Isa 44:6 This is what Yahweh, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Yahweh of Armies, says: “I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.
Isa 44:21 Remember these things, Jacob and Israel; for you are my servant. I have formed you. You are my servant. Israel, you will not be forgotten by me.
Isa 44:22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, your transgressions, and, as a cloud, your sins. Return to me, for I have redeemed you.
Isa 44:24 Yahweh, your Redeemer, and he who formed you from the womb says: “I am Yahweh, who makes all things; who alone stretches out the heavens; who spreads out the earth by myself;

Isa 45:5 I am Yahweh, and there is no one else. Besides me, there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not known me;
Isa 45:6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is no one besides me. I am Yahweh, and there is no one else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.
Isa 45:11 Yahweh, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker says: “You ask me about the things that are to come, concerning my sons, and you command me concerning the work of my hands!
Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man on it. I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens; and I have commanded all their army.
Isa 45:17 Israel will be saved by Yahweh with an everlasting salvation. You will not be disappointed nor confounded to ages everlasting.
Isa 45:18 For Yahweh who created the heavens, the God who formed the earth and made it, who established it and didn’t create it a waste, who formed it to be inhabited says: “I am Yahweh; and there is no other.
Isa 45:21 Declare and present it. Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has shown this from ancient time? Who has declared it of old? Haven’t I, Yahweh? There is no other God besides me, a just God and a Savior; There is no one besides me.
Isa 45:22 “Look to me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself. The word has gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and will not be revoked, that to me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath.
Isa 45:24 They will say of me, ‘There is righteousness and strength only in Yahweh.’” Even to him shall men come; and all those who raged against him shall be disappointed.
Isa 45:25 All the offspring of Israel will be justified in Yahweh, and will rejoice!

 

[Bad Bob]

The Hebrew word for mountain also means hill, or hill country. The narrative jumps suddenly from high hills to mountains. This is the work of the translators and doesn't follow the context of the story. People lived in hills or the hill country, not in the mountains.

The translators took some liberties, thankfully we have the Hebrew and Greek dictionaries to keep on eye on them.

I think Moses took some liberties too...if not simply repeat campfire stories.

Mediterranean tsunamis have happened a few times. The Atlantis story and the evidence of the Minoan eruption around 1600 BC along with evidence of tsunamis along the Israeli coast are evidence of "great floods". Certain areas around the world are still vulnerable to volcanoes and earthquake-induced tsunamis.

Same goes occasional meteor strikes as with hobelim 's favorite, the Burckle Crater, around 2800 BC. As the video below mentions, the theory is it caused Noah's flood but other evidence disagrees. I'm favorable to the Mediterranean based tsunamis as being the basis for Noah's story.

Regardless of the actual cause, I'm confident the basis of all flood stories, Noah's included, were a consequence of natural events.

Tsunami swept Israel coast 10,000 years ago, may have erased signs of human life

Researchers estimate wave was 50-130 feet high and reached 1.5-3.5 kilometers inland, possibly explaining absence of signs of human habitation in area south of Haifa

www.timesofisrael.com

Did a tsunami hit ancient Israel 2,800 years ago and nobody noticed?

Anomalous Layer of Sandstone Overlying Phoenician Graves in Tel Achziv, Israel Is Otherwise Hard to Explain, Archaeologists Say, Though There's No Known Record of the Event

www.haaretz.com

 

[ding]

I am not trying to convince anyone. I merely pointed out the most plausible explanation for the story of Noah that conforms to and is confirmed by actual reality in the natural world.

But you try so hard to convince people.

I am always amused when someone doesn't understand what I said in plain language

^^^ textbook example of you blaming people for not being convinced by you.

accuses me of not making sense or accuses me of failing to convince someone who has confused faith with obstinate stupidity, about something obvious, as if that was indicative of a flaw in me.

pro tip: It's not because they couldn't understand you. It's because they disagree with you. You aren't the arbiter of truth no matter how arrogant you behave.

 

[Clyde 154]

It doesnt need the word from I can slam the door in the face of Mormons and JWs and get them off my property. Freedom from religions is implied and the natural result

Indeed as stated........you have your personal Freedoms guaranteed by the very first Amendment, even if you have decided to make a religion out worshiping the Created instead of the Creator. But you do not have the right force your personal ideologies upon EVERYONE else as you are attempting, by declaring ITS THE LAW OF THE LAND.
The Mormons (even though I greatly disagree with their false religion) have just as much rights FROM your religion, be it secular humanism, Atheism, Buddhism, etc.

What you just stated has nothing to do with freedom of religion, instead you are addressing your rights of personal property that is not even mentioned in the 1st amendment. You can use whatever excuse you want to dismiss someone from your property..........why? Because of the very principles found in the US Constitution that were drafted upon the principles found in the Judeo/Christian philosophy. Blackstone's commentaries on law greatly influenced the United States Constitution. Commentaries on the Laws of England - Wikipedia

FYI: The right of personal property as defined by the Constitution is taken directly from Blackstone's commentaries on the Laws of England. Blackstone used the Holy Bible to establish such precedent. I'd suggest reading the very first legal document written by US representation.......i.e., the Declaration of Independence.

The Declaration declared the very authority by which the United States of America rebelled from England is, "The Laws of Nature and Nature's God".

The rights of property by Blackstone is described as the 3rd guaranteed right of humanity. Blackstone referenced the Bible and used the ethics found within to establish legal precedence.

www.lawshun.com/article/how-many-bible-verses-are-in-blackstones-commentary-of-law#google_vignette


In "contracts".........words define the agreement. The US Constitution is nothing more than a legal contract between the federal government and the STATES. The constitution was drafted to place limits and restrictions upon the Central Government (its a negative document).........said contract defines what the Central Government can control what it cannot. The Constitution does not place limits upon the states beyond that which is written.

Everything not written in the Constitution belongs to THE PEOPLE/STATES. Attempt reading the 10th article in the US Bill of Rights.

 

[SweetSue92]

They actually were the civil law of Israel. Even Jesus acknowledged that. However, they are the moral law of the Church but only if applied in the higher moral sense.

Old Covenant: Abstain from evil.
New Covenant: Do what is good.

Example of a civil law:

My four year old has a bedtime of 7:30.

Moral underpinning of law, which does not expire:

Children need plenty of sleep to grow and prosper.

Note that the moral law does not set up such specifics, as those might change or even expire. But moral laws do not.

 

[The Irish Ram]

If One kept the first 4 Commandments then they would believe in The Almighty LORD GOD

As far as "Jesus Christ",or Yahshuah HaMashiach,...... There are multiple thousands, if not hundreds of thouands of widely different Beliefs, be it found in "Judaism" Catholicism, and it's thousands of "Breakaway Daughters"

What The Messiah stated here, is Far Deeper, & Important, than what the Religions of "Judaism", Catholicism, & "Christianity" teach, and the Majority of those "LOrd Proclaimers" Ignore it.:

Jhn_10:30 I and the Father are one.”

Isa 40:25 “To whom then will you liken me? Who is my equal?” says the Holy One.

Isa 41:4 Who has worked and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I, Yahweh, the first, and with the last, I am he.”
Isa 41:14 Don’t be afraid, you worm Jacob, and you men of Israel. I will help you,” says Yahweh, “and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 41:16 You will winnow them, and the wind will carry them away, and the whirlwind will scatter them. You will rejoice in Yahweh. You will glory in the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 42:8 “I am Yahweh. That is my name. I will not give my glory to another, nor my praise to engraved images.
Isa 43:1 But now Yahweh who created you, Jacob, and he who formed you, Israel says: “Don’t be afraid, for I have redeemed you. I have called you by your name. You are mine.
Isa 43:2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they will not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned, and flame will not scorch you.
Isa 43:3 For I am Yahweh your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior. I have given Egypt as your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in your place.

Isa 43:11 I myself am Yahweh; and besides me there is no savior.
Isa 43:12 I have declared, I have saved, and I have shown; and there was no strange god among you. Therefore you are my witnesses”, says Yahweh, “and I am God.
Isa 43:13 Yes, since the day was, I am he; and there is no one who can deliver out of my hand. I will work, and who can hinder it?”
Isa 43:14 Yahweh, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel says: “For your sake, I have sent to Babylon, and I will bring all of them down as fugitives, even the Chaldeans, in the ships of their rejoicing.
Isa 43:15 I am Yahweh, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King.”
Isa 43:25 I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake; and I will not remember your sins.
Isa 44:6 This is what Yahweh, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Yahweh of Armies, says: “I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.
Isa 44:21 Remember these things, Jacob and Israel; for you are my servant. I have formed you. You are my servant. Israel, you will not be forgotten by me.
Isa 44:22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, your transgressions, and, as a cloud, your sins. Return to me, for I have redeemed you.
Isa 44:24 Yahweh, your Redeemer, and he who formed you from the womb says: “I am Yahweh, who makes all things; who alone stretches out the heavens; who spreads out the earth by myself;

Isa 45:5 I am Yahweh, and there is no one else. Besides me, there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not known me;
Isa 45:6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is no one besides me. I am Yahweh, and there is no one else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.
Isa 45:11 Yahweh, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker says: “You ask me about the things that are to come, concerning my sons, and you command me concerning the work of my hands!
Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man on it. I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens; and I have commanded all their army.
Isa 45:17 Israel will be saved by Yahweh with an everlasting salvation. You will not be disappointed nor confounded to ages everlasting.
Isa 45:18 For Yahweh who created the heavens, the God who formed the earth and made it, who established it and didn’t create it a waste, who formed it to be inhabited says: “I am Yahweh; and there is no other.
Isa 45:21 Declare and present it. Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has shown this from ancient time? Who has declared it of old? Haven’t I, Yahweh? There is no other God besides me, a just God and a Savior; There is no one besides me.
Isa 45:22 “Look to me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself. The word has gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and will not be revoked, that to me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath.
Isa 45:24 They will say of me, ‘There is righteousness and strength only in Yahweh.’” Even to him shall men come; and all those who raged against him shall be disappointed.
Isa 45:25 All the offspring of Israel will be justified in Yahweh, and will rejoice!

TruthSeeker112125, you can quote until the cows come home and those here will continue to come up with their human interpretations to make their lack of comprehension more plausible, e.g. Moses took liberties, God meant something else, local floods, Jesus wants us all to be Jewish, my commandments are better that Gods, it's an allegory, we are all under Jewish Law, we can work our way to heaven without Jesus' help, and then in the next breath, God's 10 are eternal, God told us to keep His words, etc.
It is an odd propensity to try to make God fit into their brain's limited ability to perceive His magnitude...

 

[jacksonlamb]

So you disregard the Burckle crater which would have cause all of the descriptions in the bible about a worldwide deluge, including "the fountains of the deep opened up" which is the most plausible natural explanation possible given that there are over 300 myths from every continent around the world about a mind boggling deluge. Okey dokey. Rube.

Only a meteor strike on the ocean could have caused water to rise up from the sea into and beyond the stratosphere, explaining the verse, "the fountains of the deep opened up."

It is an opinionated surmise, nothing more. When you can actual evidence not theory I will listen.

 

[Woodznutz]

TruthSeeker112125, you can quote until the cows come home and those here will continue to come up with their human interpretations to make their lack of comprehension more plausible, e.g. Moses took liberties, God meant something else, local floods, Jesus wants us all to be Jewish, my commandments are better that Gods, it's an allegory, we are all under Jewish Law, we can work our way to heaven without Jesus' help, and then in the next breath, God's 10 are eternal, God told us to keep His words, etc.
It is an odd propensity to try to make God fit into their brain's limited ability to perceive His magnitude...

Some laws become principles, others disappear completely.