The Senate is designed undemocratic and will break America

[Coyote]

What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights

What he wants is unfettered mob rule.

How is equal representation mob rule?

Because liberals like you, do not respect limitations on government power. The more power we give you, the less you will pay attention to the limits.


The courts will just become a rubber stamp for whatever "right" the latest fad group makes up, and the long suffering normal Americans will have to just take it, or rise up in rebellion, because they won't have any voice.

How does that address how much power we give individuals? Right now some individuals have much more say in governing than others only related to what state they live in... that is the injustice. You are justifying the injustice because right now you like the group that is over represented.

There are two processes in play. Your desire to have larger states dominate the smaller and your desire for mob rule.


You are holding more power in the larger states so you want to use a more democratic system as a way to get to "mob rule" faster.


I want neither. I want the states to be equal and I want individual rights to be respected.


We are completely at odds.

I totally get that "tyranny of the majority" (ie mob rule) can be a problem, but what about tyranny of the minority? When the vast majority of people are represented by a minority of elected officials because of the way the system is set? If we start to see more and more elections with the winner losing the popular vote, but winning the electoral vote - that could be a problem.

 

[Coyote]

Only a handful of U.S. states require employers to check an employee’s eligibility and their SSN through E-Verify, a Department of Homeland Security database. Other states have varying levels of E-Verify requirements, from partial to none.

and also many pay taxes as evidence by

An ITIN, or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, is a tax processing number only available for certain nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents who cannot get a Social Security Number (SSN). It is a 9-digit number, beginning with the number "9", formatted like an SSN (NNN-NN-NNNN).
Taxpayer Identification Numbers (TIN) | Internal Revenue ...
----------------------------------------
they deserve to be counted. They use our resources, but Tramp messed with the census, you know why, to give less federal dollars to the states.

Nonresident and resident aliens are here legally.

Those here illegally should not be represented in Congress...nor should they be supported by those here legally and/or taxpaying citizens.

Even so, we Americans are very generous to those who defy our immigration laws. We provide free schooling and treatment at any hospital.

I disagree. Some of them are here illegally and they use our resources. Tramp hired illegals and he didn't check e-verify.

Since they use our schools and have admission to our hosps, drive on the street, rent homes and apts, they need to be counted.

Do nursing home residents not receive representation, do seniors not need representation, do disabled not need representation,

They need more , not less.

People who are here illegally - those who've snuck in through the back door or those who've let their visas expire are not entitled to be counted for apportionment purposes.

You feed someone a meal and they are then entitled to move into your house and join you for all meals henceforth? That's crazy talk.
If you believe that our generosity in providing free education and medical care entitles non-citizens to be counted for the purpose of selecting US Representatives then perhaps we should withdraw that generosity.

btw - If you are unsure of the meaning of 'illegal', google it. The disabled, seniors and nursing home residents (hopefully not in New York) who are citizens are not illegal - that red herring don't hunt.

Where does it state that?

 

[progressive hunter]

What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights

What he wants is unfettered mob rule.

How is equal representation mob rule?

Because liberals like you, do not respect limitations on government power. The more power we give you, the less you will pay attention to the limits.


The courts will just become a rubber stamp for whatever "right" the latest fad group makes up, and the long suffering normal Americans will have to just take it, or rise up in rebellion, because they won't have any voice.

How does that address how much power we give individuals? Right now some individuals have much more say in governing than others only related to what state they live in... that is the injustice. You are justifying the injustice because right now you like the group that is over represented.

There are two processes in play. Your desire to have larger states dominate the smaller and your desire for mob rule.


You are holding more power in the larger states so you want to use a more democratic system as a way to get to "mob rule" faster.


I want neither. I want the states to be equal and I want individual rights to be respected.


We are completely at odds.

I totally get that "tyranny of the majority" (ie mob rule) can be a problem, but what about tyranny of the minority? When the vast majority of people are represented by a minority of elected officials because of the way the system is set? If we start to see more and more elections with the winner losing the popular vote, but winning the electoral vote - that could be a problem.

the electoral college protects us from the tyranny of the minority,,,

 

[Wyatt earp]

What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights

What he wants is unfettered mob rule.

How is equal representation mob rule?

Because liberals like you, do not respect limitations on government power. The more power we give you, the less you will pay attention to the limits.


The courts will just become a rubber stamp for whatever "right" the latest fad group makes up, and the long suffering normal Americans will have to just take it, or rise up in rebellion, because they won't have any voice.

How does that address how much power we give individuals? Right now some individuals have much more say in governing than others only related to what state they live in... that is the injustice. You are justifying the injustice because right now you like the group that is over represented.

There are two processes in play. Your desire to have larger states dominate the smaller and your desire for mob rule.


You are holding more power in the larger states so you want to use a more democratic system as a way to get to "mob rule" faster.


I want neither. I want the states to be equal and I want individual rights to be respected.


We are completely at odds.

I totally get that "tyranny of the majority" (ie mob rule) can be a problem, but what about tyranny of the minority? When the vast majority of people are represented by a minority of elected officials because of the way the system is set? If we start to see more and more elections with the winner losing the popular vote, but winning the electoral vote - that could be a problem.

It's only a people's to commie Americans who hates the constitution.

 

[SeaGal]

Only a handful of U.S. states require employers to check an employee’s eligibility and their SSN through E-Verify, a Department of Homeland Security database. Other states have varying levels of E-Verify requirements, from partial to none.

and also many pay taxes as evidence by

An ITIN, or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, is a tax processing number only available for certain nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents who cannot get a Social Security Number (SSN). It is a 9-digit number, beginning with the number "9", formatted like an SSN (NNN-NN-NNNN).
Taxpayer Identification Numbers (TIN) | Internal Revenue ...
----------------------------------------
they deserve to be counted. They use our resources, but Tramp messed with the census, you know why, to give less federal dollars to the states.

Nonresident and resident aliens are here legally.

Those here illegally should not be represented in Congress...nor should they be supported by those here legally and/or taxpaying citizens.

Even so, we Americans are very generous to those who defy our immigration laws. We provide free schooling and treatment at any hospital.

I disagree. Some of them are here illegally and they use our resources. Tramp hired illegals and he didn't check e-verify.

Since they use our schools and have admission to our hosps, drive on the street, rent homes and apts, they need to be counted.

Do nursing home residents not receive representation, do seniors not need representation, do disabled not need representation,

They need more , not less.

People who are here illegally - those who've snuck in through the back door or those who've let their visas expire are not entitled to be counted for apportionment purposes.

You feed someone a meal and they are then entitled to move into your house and join you for all meals henceforth? That's crazy talk.
If you believe that our generosity in providing free education and medical care entitles non-citizens to be counted for the purpose of selecting US Representatives then perhaps we should withdraw that generosity.

btw - If you are unsure of the meaning of 'illegal', google it. The disabled, seniors and nursing home residents (hopefully not in New York) who are citizens are not illegal - that red herring don't hunt.

Where does it state that?

Unfortunately our 'uninvited guests' do get a seat at the Congressional table. The above is my opinion.

 

[Correll]

I want individuals to be equal and state rights respected.

The current system respects state rights better than your alternative.

Bullshit as the President cuts funding and refuses support for blue states. That never ever happened before. Now that one party is abusing their over representation with circumventing funding laws ala repurposing defense funds for immigration and obstructing judicial nominations there is not respect of states anymore. Only respect of party states.

So, you never thought there would be any blow back for people like you? Why is that? What makes you so special? IN your mind of course.

 

[Correll]

What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights

What he wants is unfettered mob rule.

How is equal representation mob rule?

Because liberals like you, do not respect limitations on government power. The more power we give you, the less you will pay attention to the limits.


The courts will just become a rubber stamp for whatever "right" the latest fad group makes up, and the long suffering normal Americans will have to just take it, or rise up in rebellion, because they won't have any voice.

How does that address how much power we give individuals? Right now some individuals have much more say in governing than others only related to what state they live in... that is the injustice. You are justifying the injustice because right now you like the group that is over represented.

There are two processes in play. Your desire to have larger states dominate the smaller and your desire for mob rule.


You are holding more power in the larger states so you want to use a more democratic system as a way to get to "mob rule" faster.


I want neither. I want the states to be equal and I want individual rights to be respected.


We are completely at odds.

I totally get that "tyranny of the majority" (ie mob rule) can be a problem, but what about tyranny of the minority? When the vast majority of people are represented by a minority of elected officials because of the way the system is set? If we start to see more and more elections with the winner losing the popular vote, but winning the electoral vote - that could be a problem.

Except we aren't doing "tyranny" but simply governing according to our laws and traditions.


We aren't the ones with vicious mobs killing people in the streets, or equally vicious mobs doxxing people and destroying their lives because of a fucking halloween custom from twenty years ago, or arresting people for defending themselves from vicious attacks or, ect ect ect.

 

[citygator]

I want individuals to be equal and state rights respected.

The current system respects state rights better than your alternative.

Bullshit as the President cuts funding and refuses support for blue states. That never ever happened before. Now that one party is abusing their over representation with circumventing funding laws ala repurposing defense funds for immigration and obstructing judicial nominations there is not respect of states anymore. Only respect of party states.

So, you never thought there would be any blow back for people like you? Why is that? What makes you so special? IN your mind of course.

Gotcha! Prior post was about our system respecting rights then you last posted my rights don’t deserve respect. Shit. That was fucking great. Thanks for being my bitch. Love being proved right.

Got you.

 

[Correll]

I want individuals to be equal and state rights respected.

The current system respects state rights better than your alternative.

Bullshit as the President cuts funding and refuses support for blue states. That never ever happened before. Now that one party is abusing their over representation with circumventing funding laws ala repurposing defense funds for immigration and obstructing judicial nominations there is not respect of states anymore. Only respect of party states.

So, you never thought there would be any blow back for people like you? Why is that? What makes you so special? IN your mind of course.

Gotcha! Prior post was about our system respecting rights then you last posted my rights don’t deserve respect. Shit. That was fucking great. Thanks for being my bitch. Love being proved right.

Got you.
View attachment 391850

You conflated two complaints, one the way the system is set up and another the way that republicans are governing. I addressed the second point.

When you start a fight, and the person you are fighting, fights back, whining about them fighting you back, is you being a pussy.

 

[Osiris-ODS]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy

...

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

*****SMILE*****

Yeah, well I just heard Joe Biden recite the pledge, and that's not how it goes according to him . . . for real

 

[$ecular#eckler]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators.

The Senate was not designed to represent people. It was designed to represent states.

Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we

Somebody is way ahead of everybody.

A Better Subdivisioning of the Three-part Model will Provide Better Checks & Balances

http://www.us4cc.info

www.usmessageboard.com

United States Fourth Continental Congress

The United States Fourth Continental Congress (US4CC) will probably be the designation for the inevitable venue that orders the succeeding charter to the subsisting United States Constitution that was composed in 1787 by the legendary Philadelphia Convention, which for convenience for...

www.usmessageboard.com

SL Chartering System - US4CC

US4CC

www.us4cc.info

 

[Missourian]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy

The Founding Fathers in their infinite wisdom created a mechanism to rectify this situation. So hop to it and amend the Constitution.

 

[citygator]

The Founding Fathers in their infinite wisdom created a mechanism to rectify this situation. So hop to it and amend the Constitution

Great idea. Which thread do I do that in?

 

[Missourian]

The Founding Fathers in their infinite wisdom created a mechanism to rectify this situation. So hop to it and amend the Constitution

Great idea. Which thread do I do that in?

Ways to Amend the Constitution

bensguide.gpo.gov

 

[$ecular#eckler]

Great idea. Which thread do I do that in?

United States Fourth Continental Congress

The United States Fourth Continental Congress (US4CC) will probably be the designation for the inevitable venue that orders the succeeding charter to the subsisting United States Constitution that was composed in 1787 by the legendary Philadelphia Convention, which for convenience for...

www.usmessageboard.com

Convention of States