The Senate is designed undemocratic and will break America

[Penelope]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy

Spending bills (federal tax dollars of those who actually pay federal income tax) originate in the House of Representatives. The House membership is representative of population... California has 53 - Utah has 4. Hence the push by some states to count people here illegally.

Using your logic - should only those who pay income tax get to vote?

The Senate is fine despite Harry Reid's 8 years of finagling with the rules.

Only a handful of U.S. states require employers to check an employee’s eligibility and their SSN through E-Verify, a Department of Homeland Security database. Other states have varying levels of E-Verify requirements, from partial to none.

and also many pay taxes as evidence by

An ITIN, or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, is a tax processing number only available for certain nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents who cannot get a Social Security Number (SSN). It is a 9-digit number, beginning with the number "9", formatted like an SSN (NNN-NN-NNNN).

Taxpayer Identification Numbers (TIN) | Internal Revenue ...
----------------------------------------
they deserve to be counted. They use our resources, but Tramp messed with the census, you know why, to give less federal dollars to the states.

 

[SeaGal]

I never claimed tax payers only should vote. There are non tax payers under represented by the senate as well. So I don’t think that logic holds.

Congress is nearly representative. Not perfect because of 435 cap. No issues there. But 2 for 40M Californians and 2 for 0.5M Wyoming citizens is bunk.

Did you not use the phrase 'taxation without representation' as a call to change the number of Senators per state? The House is the fast train, the Senate applies the brakes.

btw - Congress is both the House and the Senate

If you want to amend the Constitution, re-make the structure of government plus alter the system of checks and balances it would be a good idea to first understand how it all works.

Do you think it's fair that those who don't pay federal income tax get the same representation as those who do?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation.

This demonstrates exactly why the Senate was composed as it was, to represent all states equally, while the House of Representative is composed to represent the people equally.

Without the Senate representing the states, as it does, with the scenario that you describe, of 70% of the population inhabiting 15 out of the 50 states, this means that those 15 states would dominate the federal government, and the inhabitants of the remaining 35 state would be effectively disenfranchised.

 

[westwall]

Your OP is intellectually deficient. Didn't keep you from posting it though, did it.

Wow. Sterling logic there. Once you Velcro your shoes on this morning and get the blood flowing, try again.

Why bother. Your ability to discuss anything with logic and reason doesn't exist.

Of COURSE the Senate was designed undemocratic. We are a REPUBLIC. Learn what that means before you carry on like a petulant child.

 

[Disir]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy

No.

 

[SeaGal]

Only a handful of U.S. states require employers to check an employee’s eligibility and their SSN through E-Verify, a Department of Homeland Security database. Other states have varying levels of E-Verify requirements, from partial to none.

and also many pay taxes as evidence by

An ITIN, or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, is a tax processing number only available for certain nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents who cannot get a Social Security Number (SSN). It is a 9-digit number, beginning with the number "9", formatted like an SSN (NNN-NN-NNNN).
Taxpayer Identification Numbers (TIN) | Internal Revenue ...
----------------------------------------
they deserve to be counted. They use our resources, but Tramp messed with the census, you know why, to give less federal dollars to the states.

Nonresident and resident aliens are here legally.

Those here illegally should not be represented in Congress...nor should they be supported by those here legally and/or taxpaying citizens.

Even so, we Americans are very generous to those who defy our immigration laws. We provide free schooling and treatment at any hospital.

 

[TheParser]

I respectfully disagree that the Senate will "break" the United States.

What will eventually break the United States will be the lack of character & decency of many Americans in the coming decades.

 

[Correll]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy

That was the point. If anything, we made a mistake switching to direct election of senators.

What you want, means that those 15 states completely oppress the rest.


THAT is a receipt for oppression and then revolution.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The senate was created the way it was expressly to protect the interests of the rich from the rabble. A direct analog of the British house of lords. Until McConnell came along they kept that on the downlow but now it's right in our faces: the senate's purpose is to make democracy ineffective.

Actually idiot the Senate was Chosen by the state legislatures. Then it was changed by leftist Wilson to be elected by the people

 

[Penelope]

Only a handful of U.S. states require employers to check an employee’s eligibility and their SSN through E-Verify, a Department of Homeland Security database. Other states have varying levels of E-Verify requirements, from partial to none.

and also many pay taxes as evidence by

An ITIN, or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, is a tax processing number only available for certain nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents who cannot get a Social Security Number (SSN). It is a 9-digit number, beginning with the number "9", formatted like an SSN (NNN-NN-NNNN).
Taxpayer Identification Numbers (TIN) | Internal Revenue ...
----------------------------------------
they deserve to be counted. They use our resources, but Tramp messed with the census, you know why, to give less federal dollars to the states.

Nonresident and resident aliens are here legally.

Those here illegally should not be represented in Congress...nor should they be supported by those here legally and/or taxpaying citizens.

Even so, we Americans are very generous to those who defy our immigration laws. We provide free schooling and treatment at any hospital.

I disagree. Some of them are here illegally and they use our resources. Tramp hired illegals and he didn't check e-verify.

Since they use our schools and have admission to our hosps, drive on the street, rent homes and apts, they need to be counted.

Do nursing home residents not receive representation, do seniors not need representation, do disabled not need representation,

They need more , not less.

 

[citygator]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation.

This demonstrates exactly why the Senate was composed as it was, to represent all states equally, while the House of Representative is composed to represent the people equally.

Without the Senate representing the states, as it does, with the scenario that you describe, of 70% of the population inhabiting 15 out of the 50 states, this means that those 15 states would dominate the federal government, and the inhabitants of the remaining 35 state would be effectively disenfranchised.

You speak as if a bordered entity should have any say in matters. It doesn’t. The people do. You’re not disenfranchised by having an equal voice.

 

[citygator]

Your OP is intellectually deficient. Didn't keep you from posting it though, did it.

Wow. Sterling logic there. Once you Velcro your shoes on this morning and get the blood flowing, try again.

Why bother. Your ability to discuss anything with logic and reason doesn't exist.

Of COURSE the Senate was designed undemocratic. We are a REPUBLIC. Learn what that means before you carry on like a petulant child.

You moron. Republic is a form of democracy where representatives chosen by people form laws. It has nothing to do with unequal representation. Speaking of unequal, your intellect is unequal to mine. Go find some people to help you out. You’re over matched. There are good debaters on here. You are not one.

 

[citygator]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy

That was the point. If anything, we made a mistake switching to direct election of senators.

What you want, means that those 15 states completely oppress the rest.


THAT is a receipt for oppression and then revolution.

We are just arguing over who is oppressed. In your version people with a current voice that is worth more than others would be “oppressed” if placed on equal footing. In my version people who currently have less of a voice than others are “oppressed”. I think I won that argument.

 

[Correll]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy

That was the point. If anything, we made a mistake switching to direct election of senators.

What you want, means that those 15 states completely oppress the rest.


THAT is a receipt for oppression and then revolution.

We are just arguing over who is oppressed. In your version people with a current voice that is worth more than others would be “oppressed” if placed on equal footing. In my version people who currently have less of a voice than others are “oppressed”. I think I won that argument.

No, you didn't. Rule of the Mob, might be democratic, but it is not Just, nor Enlightened.


That was the compact, that basis of our nation. That the RIghts of the Individuals would be respected.


IN our version, the individuals in the smaller states, will never have their interests or rights respected again.


In mine, they, well complete out weighted in the House and in Presidential elections, at least have a voice and some sway in the Senate, ie One half of ONE of THREE branches of government.


Try to be less greedy.

 

[Blues Man]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy

The house of Reps makes up for the only 2 senators per state.

 

[citygator]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy

That was the point. If anything, we made a mistake switching to direct election of senators.

What you want, means that those 15 states completely oppress the rest.


THAT is a receipt for oppression and then revolution.

We are just arguing over who is oppressed. In your version people with a current voice that is worth more than others would be “oppressed” if placed on equal footing. In my version people who currently have less of a voice than others are “oppressed”. I think I won that argument.

No, you didn't. Rule of the Mob, might be democratic, but it is not Just, nor Enlightened.


That was the compact, that basis of our nation. That the RIghts of the Individuals would be respected.


IN our version, the individuals in the smaller states, will never have their interests or rights respected again.


In mine, they, well complete out weighted in the House and in Presidential elections, at least have a voice and some sway in the Senate, ie One half of ONE of THREE branches of government.


Try to be less greedy.

But again, you’re choosing whose wishes to protect more than others - not rights. Rights are guaranteed to all via the constitution regardless of color, race, or which state you live in. Those rights are unbreakable. Now the wishes of governing through legislation should be based on equal representation. Otherwise you are choosing to weight the wishes of Montana citizens above California citizens on mutual decisions. Montana citizens can legislate their state laws to their heart’s desire.

 

[Polishprince]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy

Senators are sent to Washington to represent their own sovereign states who are all equal.

Much like the UN, where India gets the same vote in the General Assembly as does less population states like Uruguay and Albania.

 

[citygator]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy

The house of Reps makes up for the only 2 senators per state.

Not when there is no checks by the house on the senate’s power.

 

[Wyatt earp]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy

What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights

 

[Correll]

By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy

That was the point. If anything, we made a mistake switching to direct election of senators.

What you want, means that those 15 states completely oppress the rest.


THAT is a receipt for oppression and then revolution.

We are just arguing over who is oppressed. In your version people with a current voice that is worth more than others would be “oppressed” if placed on equal footing. In my version people who currently have less of a voice than others are “oppressed”. I think I won that argument.

No, you didn't. Rule of the Mob, might be democratic, but it is not Just, nor Enlightened.


That was the compact, that basis of our nation. That the RIghts of the Individuals would be respected.


IN our version, the individuals in the smaller states, will never have their interests or rights respected again.


In mine, they, well complete out weighted in the House and in Presidential elections, at least have a voice and some sway in the Senate, ie One half of ONE of THREE branches of government.


Try to be less greedy.

But again, you’re choosing whose wishes to protect more than others - not rights. Rights are guaranteed to all via the constitution regardless of color, race, or which state you live in. Those rights are unbreakable. Now the wishes of governing through legislation should be based on equal representation. Otherwise you are choosing to weight the wishes of Montana citizens above California citizens on mutual decisions. Montana citizens can legislate their state laws to their heart’s desire.

1. Except that you people have shown that you are all about taking away those rights.

2. AND, no. This nation is an union of STATES, and each state was promised a certain level of balance between the larger and smaller states. Changing the rules after the deal is done, is Unjust. And breaks the Contract.