The Senate is designed undemocratic and will break America

OP
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You speak as if a bordered entity should have any say in matters. It doesn’t. The people do. You’re not disenfranchised by having an equal voice.
Your ignorance about the very good and wise reasons that the great men who founded this nation set up our Congress the way that they did is not really an argument; just an expression of your own ignorance.
What is that reason? If you read up on it you’d find that the only reason is to bring compromise so the states would enter union. Not related to any equity argument about representation.
 
OP
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What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights
What he wants is unfettered mob rule.
How is equal representation mob rule?

Because liberals like you, do not respect limitations on government power. The more power we give you, the less you will pay attention to the limits.


The courts will just become a rubber stamp for whatever "right" the latest fad group makes up, and the long suffering normal Americans will have to just take it, or rise up in rebellion, because they won't have any voice.
How does that address how much power we give individuals? Right now some individuals have much more say in governing than others only related to what state they live in... that is the injustice. You are justifying the injustice because right now you like the group that is over represented.
No it doesn't we are a nation made up of 50 states, what is normal in california is considered insane in oklahoma that's what the left refuses to acknowledge
We are just talking about what was ceded to the federal governments. Feds can’t make you wear masks. Your governor can though. That remains unaffected. Why should a representative of 250k Montana citizens get the same say as 20m Californians?
 

Correll

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What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights
What he wants is unfettered mob rule.
How is equal representation mob rule?

Because liberals like you, do not respect limitations on government power. The more power we give you, the less you will pay attention to the limits.


The courts will just become a rubber stamp for whatever "right" the latest fad group makes up, and the long suffering normal Americans will have to just take it, or rise up in rebellion, because they won't have any voice.
How does that address how much power we give individuals? Right now some individuals have much more say in governing than others only related to what state they live in... that is the injustice. You are justifying the injustice because right now you like the group that is over represented.

There are two processes in play. Your desire to have larger states dominate the smaller and your desire for mob rule.


You are holding more power in the larger states so you want to use a more democratic system as a way to get to "mob rule" faster.


I want neither. I want the states to be equal and I want individual rights to be respected.


We are completely at odds.
 

theHawk

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By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy
You can always move to Africa after the election and live in peace without racism for the rest of your life.
Wow. So clever. You must be one of the uneducated Trump lives.
I just don’t understand how you can go on contributing to an inherently racist system of capitalism, colonialism, and government after you lose the election.
 

Correll

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By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy
You can always move to Africa after the election and live in peace without racism for the rest of your life.
Wow. So clever. You must be one of the uneducated Trump lives.
I just don’t understand how you can go on contributing to an inherently racist system of capitalism, colonialism, and government after you lose the election.

IF they believe the shit they say, moving away or rising up in revolution, would be the only things they could do.
 

bear513

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What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights
What he wants is unfettered mob rule.
How is equal representation mob rule?

Because liberals like you, do not respect limitations on government power. The more power we give you, the less you will pay attention to the limits.


The courts will just become a rubber stamp for whatever "right" the latest fad group makes up, and the long suffering normal Americans will have to just take it, or rise up in rebellion, because they won't have any voice.
How does that address how much power we give individuals? Right now some individuals have much more say in governing than others only related to what state they live in... that is the injustice. You are justifying the injustice because right now you like the group that is over represented.
No it doesn't we are a nation made up of 50 states, what is normal in california is considered insane in oklahoma that's what the left refuses to acknowledge
We are just talking about what was ceded to the federal governments. Feds can’t make you wear masks. Your governor can though. That remains unaffected. Why should a representative of 250k Montana citizens get the same say as 20m Californians?
Because in theory it doesn't, one rep for the people in the house based on population and two for the state in the Senate, I am getting tired of this silly argument with people who are ignorant about why our government is set up.
 
OP
citygator

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What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights
What he wants is unfettered mob rule.
How is equal representation mob rule?

Because liberals like you, do not respect limitations on government power. The more power we give you, the less you will pay attention to the limits.


The courts will just become a rubber stamp for whatever "right" the latest fad group makes up, and the long suffering normal Americans will have to just take it, or rise up in rebellion, because they won't have any voice.
How does that address how much power we give individuals? Right now some individuals have much more say in governing than others only related to what state they live in... that is the injustice. You are justifying the injustice because right now you like the group that is over represented.

There are two processes in play. Your desire to have larger states dominate the smaller and your desire for mob rule.


You are holding more power in the larger states so you want to use a more democratic system as a way to get to "mob rule" faster.


I want neither. I want the states to be equal and I want individual rights to be respected.


We are completely at odds.
I want individuals to be equal and state rights respected. I like mine better. So would you if you were unequal.
 
OP
citygator

citygator

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By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy
You can always move to Africa after the election and live in peace without racism for the rest of your life.
Wow. So clever. You must be one of the uneducated Trump lives.
I just don’t understand how you can go on contributing to an inherently racist system of capitalism, colonialism, and government after you lose the election.
You should have stopped on the fourth word. Could be on your crest like “winter is coming”:

TheHawk “I just don’t understand”
 
OP
citygator

citygator

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What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights
What he wants is unfettered mob rule.
How is equal representation mob rule?

Because liberals like you, do not respect limitations on government power. The more power we give you, the less you will pay attention to the limits.


The courts will just become a rubber stamp for whatever "right" the latest fad group makes up, and the long suffering normal Americans will have to just take it, or rise up in rebellion, because they won't have any voice.
How does that address how much power we give individuals? Right now some individuals have much more say in governing than others only related to what state they live in... that is the injustice. You are justifying the injustice because right now you like the group that is over represented.
No it doesn't we are a nation made up of 50 states, what is normal in california is considered insane in oklahoma that's what the left refuses to acknowledge
We are just talking about what was ceded to the federal governments. Feds can’t make you wear masks. Your governor can though. That remains unaffected. Why should a representative of 250k Montana citizens get the same say as 20m Californians?
Because in theory it doesn't, one rep for the people in the house based on population and two for the state in the Senate, I am getting tired of this silly argument with people who are ignorant about why our government is set up.
Your silly response is “because that’s the way it is”. That makes no sense. You havent put forth an argument for “why” other than “it is”.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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Only a handful of U.S. states require employers to check an employee’s eligibility and their SSN through E-Verify, a Department of Homeland Security database. Other states have varying levels of E-Verify requirements, from partial to none.

and also many pay taxes as evidence by

An ITIN, or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, is a tax processing number only available for certain nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents who cannot get a Social Security Number (SSN). It is a 9-digit number, beginning with the number "9", formatted like an SSN (NNN-NN-NNNN).
Taxpayer Identification Numbers (TIN) | Internal Revenue ...
----------------------------------------
they deserve to be counted. They use our resources, but Tramp messed with the census, you know why, to give less federal dollars to the states.
Nonresident and resident aliens are here legally.

Those here illegally should not be represented in Congress...nor should they be supported by those here legally and/or taxpaying citizens.

Even so, we Americans are very generous to those who defy our immigration laws. We provide free schooling and treatment at any hospital.
I disagree. Some of them are here illegally and they use our resources. Tramp hired illegals and he didn't check e-verify.

Since they use our schools and have admission to our hosps, drive on the street, rent homes and apts, they need to be counted.

Do nursing home residents not receive representation, do seniors not need representation, do disabled not need representation,

They need more , not less.
Since they use our schools and have admission to our hosps, drive on the street, rent homes and apts, they need to be counted.

I agree, we need to count them and immediately deport them
 

Toddsterpatriot

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What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights
What he wants is unfettered mob rule.
How is equal representation mob rule?

Because liberals like you, do not respect limitations on government power. The more power we give you, the less you will pay attention to the limits.


The courts will just become a rubber stamp for whatever "right" the latest fad group makes up, and the long suffering normal Americans will have to just take it, or rise up in rebellion, because they won't have any voice.
How does that address how much power we give individuals? Right now some individuals have much more say in governing than others only related to what state they live in... that is the injustice. You are justifying the injustice because right now you like the group that is over represented.
No it doesn't we are a nation made up of 50 states, what is normal in california is considered insane in oklahoma that's what the left refuses to acknowledge
We are just talking about what was ceded to the federal governments. Feds can’t make you wear masks. Your governor can though. That remains unaffected. Why should a representative of 250k Montana citizens get the same say as 20m Californians?
Why should a representative of 250k Montana citizens get the same say as 20m Californians?

Because the Constitution says so.
If you don't like it, you're free to move to Montana.
 

bear513

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What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights
What he wants is unfettered mob rule.
How is equal representation mob rule?

Because liberals like you, do not respect limitations on government power. The more power we give you, the less you will pay attention to the limits.


The courts will just become a rubber stamp for whatever "right" the latest fad group makes up, and the long suffering normal Americans will have to just take it, or rise up in rebellion, because they won't have any voice.
How does that address how much power we give individuals? Right now some individuals have much more say in governing than others only related to what state they live in... that is the injustice. You are justifying the injustice because right now you like the group that is over represented.
No it doesn't we are a nation made up of 50 states, what is normal in california is considered insane in oklahoma that's what the left refuses to acknowledge
We are just talking about what was ceded to the federal governments. Feds can’t make you wear masks. Your governor can though. That remains unaffected. Why should a representative of 250k Montana citizens get the same say as 20m Californians?
Because in theory it doesn't, one rep for the people in the house based on population and two for the state in the Senate, I am getting tired of this silly argument with people who are ignorant about why our government is set up.
Your silly response is “because that’s the way it is”. That makes no sense. You havent put forth an argument for “why” other than “it is”.
What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights
What he wants is unfettered mob rule.
How is equal representation mob rule?

Because liberals like you, do not respect limitations on government power. The more power we give you, the less you will pay attention to the limits.


The courts will just become a rubber stamp for whatever "right" the latest fad group makes up, and the long suffering normal Americans will have to just take it, or rise up in rebellion, because they won't have any voice.
How does that address how much power we give individuals? Right now some individuals have much more say in governing than others only related to what state they live in... that is the injustice. You are justifying the injustice because right now you like the group that is over represented.
No it doesn't we are a nation made up of 50 states, what is normal in california is considered insane in oklahoma that's what the left refuses to acknowledge
We are just talking about what was ceded to the federal governments. Feds can’t make you wear masks. Your governor can though. That remains unaffected. Why should a representative of 250k Montana citizens get the same say as 20m Californians?
Because in theory it doesn't, one rep for the people in the house based on population and two for the state in the Senate, I am getting tired of this silly argument with people who are ignorant about why our government is set up.
Your silly response is “because that’s the way it is”. That makes no sense. You havent put forth an argument for “why” other than “it is”.
The Constitution is a silly response?

Once again in our undemocratic constitutional republic :

Abortion became legal

Gay marriage became legal

The dream act is here to stay, if we where a democracy / mob rule those things would be illegal today.

The Senate is for state rights the house is for peoples rights
 

bear513

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What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights
What he wants is unfettered mob rule.
How is equal representation mob rule?

Because liberals like you, do not respect limitations on government power. The more power we give you, the less you will pay attention to the limits.


The courts will just become a rubber stamp for whatever "right" the latest fad group makes up, and the long suffering normal Americans will have to just take it, or rise up in rebellion, because they won't have any voice.
How does that address how much power we give individuals? Right now some individuals have much more say in governing than others only related to what state they live in... that is the injustice. You are justifying the injustice because right now you like the group that is over represented.
No it doesn't we are a nation made up of 50 states, what is normal in california is considered insane in oklahoma that's what the left refuses to acknowledge
We are just talking about what was ceded to the federal governments. Feds can’t make you wear masks. Your governor can though. That remains unaffected. Why should a representative of 250k Montana citizens get the same say as 20m Californians?
Why should a representative of 250k Montana citizens get the same say as 20m Californians?

Because the Constitution says so.
If you don't like it, you're free to move to Montana.
He is just playing stupid california has what 53 house members divided by 20 million is what roughly 500,000 people
 

bear513

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What more do you and the article want you have the 17th amendment and for the millionth time the Senate was for state rights not people's rights
What he wants is unfettered mob rule.
How is equal representation mob rule?

Because liberals like you, do not respect limitations on government power. The more power we give you, the less you will pay attention to the limits.


The courts will just become a rubber stamp for whatever "right" the latest fad group makes up, and the long suffering normal Americans will have to just take it, or rise up in rebellion, because they won't have any voice.
How does that address how much power we give individuals? Right now some individuals have much more say in governing than others only related to what state they live in... that is the injustice. You are justifying the injustice because right now you like the group that is over represented.

There are two processes in play. Your desire to have larger states dominate the smaller and your desire for mob rule.


You are holding more power in the larger states so you want to use a more democratic system as a way to get to "mob rule" faster.


I want neither. I want the states to be equal and I want individual rights to be respected.


We are completely at odds.
I want individuals to be equal and state rights respected. I like mine better. So would you if you were unequal.
What's the point having the house and senate if they have equal people's reps? Just get rid of the Senate then
 

BlueGin

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By 2040 70% of Americans will live in 15 states - first article below. Do the math. 70% of Americans will be represented by 30% of the Senators. Taxation without representation cannot stand and 40% of Americans will not be represented. It will make ripe for a revolution.... Constitution designers screwed up slavery, screwed up representation of women, and screwed up equal representation. In fact state senates can’t be made up that way... it’s illegal.

How can we make the senate more fair in the long term? Should we? The last article says it’s impossible.

Here is a link to a story on population growth from a few years back
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-be-represented-by-30-percent-of-the-senate/

Here’s an article that says it’s impossible to amend essentially this immoral Piece of the constitution.
Revamping the Senate Is a Fantasy
Says the party of anti American activists that keep threatening to burn it all down.
 

SeaGal

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Only a handful of U.S. states require employers to check an employee’s eligibility and their SSN through E-Verify, a Department of Homeland Security database. Other states have varying levels of E-Verify requirements, from partial to none.

and also many pay taxes as evidence by

An ITIN, or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, is a tax processing number only available for certain nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents who cannot get a Social Security Number (SSN). It is a 9-digit number, beginning with the number "9", formatted like an SSN (NNN-NN-NNNN).
Taxpayer Identification Numbers (TIN) | Internal Revenue ...
----------------------------------------
they deserve to be counted. They use our resources, but Tramp messed with the census, you know why, to give less federal dollars to the states.
Nonresident and resident aliens are here legally.

Those here illegally should not be represented in Congress...nor should they be supported by those here legally and/or taxpaying citizens.

Even so, we Americans are very generous to those who defy our immigration laws. We provide free schooling and treatment at any hospital.
I disagree. Some of them are here illegally and they use our resources. Tramp hired illegals and he didn't check e-verify.

Since they use our schools and have admission to our hosps, drive on the street, rent homes and apts, they need to be counted.

Do nursing home residents not receive representation, do seniors not need representation, do disabled not need representation,

They need more , not less.

People who are here illegally - those who've snuck in through the back door or those who've let their visas expire are not entitled to be counted for apportionment purposes.

You feed someone a meal and they are then entitled to move into your house and join you for all meals henceforth? That's crazy talk. :rolleyes:
If you believe that our generosity in providing free education and medical care entitles non-citizens to be counted for the purpose of selecting US Representatives then perhaps we should withdraw that generosity.

btw - If you are unsure of the meaning of 'illegal', google it. The disabled, seniors and nursing home residents (hopefully not in New York) who are citizens are not illegal - that red herring don't hunt. ;)
 
OP
citygator

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I want individuals to be equal and state rights respected.
The current system respects state rights better than your alternative.
Bullshit as the President cuts funding and refuses support for blue states. That never ever happened before. Now that one party is abusing their over representation with circumventing funding laws ala repurposing defense funds for immigration and obstructing judicial nominations there is not respect of states anymore. Only respect of party states.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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I want individuals to be equal and state rights respected.
The current system respects state rights better than your alternative.
Bullshit as the President cuts funding and refuses support for blue states. That never ever happened before. Now that one party is abusing their over representation with circumventing funding laws ala repurposing defense funds for immigration and obstructing judicial nominations there is not respect of states anymore. Only respect of party states.
Bullshit as the President cuts funding and refuses support for blue states. That never ever happened before.

Ahhhhhh.......aren't you cute?
 

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