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I'm merely reporting what the ask was, not anything more.....Pence had every constitutional right to assent to the request of the three state legislatures.10 days? 10 days! It has been more than 10 MONTHS, and still nothing. Come on! Everyone in Washington knew what Trump had, and it is what you have seen to date. We all wish Trump had something because we want to clobber the Left, but if this is what was presented to the GOP and Pence, how could they as a constitutional Republic do what was requested of them?
This will be a very unpopular thread with Conservatives, and I am a Conservative, so let me apologize in advance for probably pissing you off.
Why was DJT so popular with all of us? Because, even as a billionaire, he was one of us, spoke like we did, said things nobody ever said as a politician running for higher government, he was the closest to a regular person we ever had because he had few handlers that could filter him. When he pontificated correct or incorrect in his assertions, you knew he was not saying it for political purposes, it was actually what he thought. His actions while in office proved that he was not saying things just to get elected then backtracking, he actually meant what he said.
Why did Washington hate him, and oh yes they did!? He jumped everyone to be elected to the highest office in the land. He did not go through the system being elected 1st to lesser offices where donors could get their hooks into him. He consistently reiterated that he wanted a law where retiring congress people could not become lobbyists for a certain amount of time, and that is a no-no. His wall was so against what the elite wanted, they just couldn't stand it, but many Republicans in office could not voice their displeasure at it for fear of Trumps wrath. All on one side, and some on the other HAD to get rid of him. Their donor/lobbying people despised this man.
So to quickly finish up this segment, Russia-Russia-Russia, impeachment 1, Impeachment 2, all so laughable and proven false, look at how many votes he got for his projected 2nd term; and virtually ALL of them showed at the polls to insure their vote got cast and counted. I know I did, and I am sure most of you Conservatives did too. Trump hated? No! And trust me, that galls your people in Congress, even many on our side I might add.
Many people will roll their eyes at this assertion but with the amount of real time, in person votes he received on election day it is plain as the nose on your face; Trump, the bombastic billionaire, became a sympathetic figure to millions upon millions of people because of what Washington tried to do to him while he was in office!
And then, something happened. You believe I am going to say the election. Wrong! It is what Trump said and tried to do BECAUSE of the election. Enter the......as of today............ruination of DJT known as "the steal!" Democrats had orgasms over that one, along with never Trumpers, and still are. It changed the whole narrative from those who seen Trump as a sympathetic figure who are not GOP, to one of questionable character. Why? Because those who are NOT GOP who believed all of his assertions for 4 years, heard him say with such conviction that 2020 was stolen, they believed him. They believed him not because he thought it, they believed him because they knew in their heart of hearts he would deliver the evidence, and the Left would be swept off the political landscape of the United States for their transgressions. So they waited, waited, and waited more, and the whole time, Trump keeps repeating, the steal, the steal.
Now we consistently hear on this board and in the media, that judges are against him; that is the reason Trump can't get anywhere. As I said in another thread-------> what is one of the things Trump constantly touts at all of his rally's? He put 200, 300, or was it 400 of his CONSERVATIVE judges on the bench because Obama left many slots open for Hillary. To suggest Trump can not find one Federal jurisdiction to hear his evidence after that is patently laughable.
So how easy would it be for Trump to change his demise into a crowning glory come 2024? Does he actually have to prove the election was stolen? NOPE! All he has to prove is that one state was stolen that Biden won, and it changes the whole narrative. You pick the state----> AZ? Georgia? Penn? Any other state? Can I have a Wisconsin? All he needs is one, just one, even if it did not move him to electoral victory, because the whole country's narrative would shift from, no way.........to......they did it, and now we see how, plus they cheated to boot. We are waiting, but time is getting short. He has to about December, that is it.
I urge you to understand, that if Trump can NOT prove it, he will not get anywhere near the amount of votes he received in 2020. To non GOPers, he and his supporters sound unhinged. How can you insist something happened that forced you to almost use a coup (the Lefts words, not mine) to fix it, and yet, you can't prove it happened? Each and every time I read some facts on this board how Biden is screwing up everything, when the Left doesn't want to address it they bring up THE STEAL and giggle as the OP goes off the deep end all about how it was stolen, and yet can't produce any evidence that even a CONSERVATIVE court will address. The STEAL is a word like Racist, homophobe, mysogynist that the Left uses, and the STEAL works better than all the rest. It is unfathomable to me personally, how we CONSERVATIVES claim that we make decisions on facts and data, while the Left makes decisions on feelings along with faulty thought processes, and here we are with a total role reversal, led by GOPers.
In closing, let me ask all of you to consider a WHAT IF scenario------> WHAT IF Pence would have done what Trump asked him to do if possible? WHAT IF the GOP supported the process and the election would have been thrown out and Trump continued on? WHAT IF all of that happened, and the evidence we have in real time now was still the evidence we had with the WHAT IF scenario?
I will tell you WHAT IF THAT REALLY HAPPENED! Come November, the Democrats would be elected to a veto proof majority in the House and senate because America would be PISSED! Trumps hands would have been tied for the 1st 2 years because the Democrats would STILL be in control of the House, and no legislation would have ever gotten through Pelosi. By the 2nd 2 years, the Democratic veto proof congress would be running the country, and Trump couldn't stop anything, he would just be a figurehead, until he was IMPEACHED, and it would pass this time. Because Pence did it, he would then be impeached afterwards, and you would have a President Nancy Pelosi. Come 2024, the GOP would totally be wiped out for at least 4 to 6 years, and by that time, you probably wouldn't have much of a country left to save.
So, going forward, be careful what you wish WOULD HAVE happened. Oh sure, we can wish that Trump won. Yes, we can pray that something, anything was stolen, and Trump can prove it satisfactorily to the American public along with the courts. Be thankful that in 2022 you have the Left by the gonads, vote and kick them to the curb ASAP. But do not think that Pence and the GOP let you down by not backing Trump on that fateful day. Had they done that, for a very short term gain, we would have taken a long, long, looooooong term hosing.
As Winston Churchill once said, (at least he was credited with it, nobody knows if that is fact) America will do the wrong thing many times, but eventually they will get it right! Well Conservatives, lets get it RIGHT!
but many Republicans in office could not voice their displeasure at it for fear of Trumps wrath.
Same here.tl;dr
Irrelevant text brick is irrelevant.
The only thing Pence was asked to do was assent to the three letters he received from the legislatures of PA, AZ, and GA, to have an additional ten days to review and investigate their vote totals and certifications, before the seating of their electors....Nothing more, nothing less.
As was already pointed out, you're not this dense....Why are you carrying water for the State approved narrative?....Who has hijacked your account?
Yes, in fact Pence could have done what was asked of him and then provided enough reasons to justify his decision, based on confusion or some other rationale.I'm merely reporting what the ask was, not anything more.....Pence had every constitutional right to assent to the request of the three state legislatures.
If you want to sniff at over 3,000 sworn (under pains and penalties of perjury) first-hand witness accounts, the literal dozens if statistical impossibilities, and an exhaustive report which is meticulously sourced and end noted, that's your hole in the sand in which to shove your head.
Frankly speaking, if the R's win big in both houses of congress, their power will make it relatively easy to prove that the election was stolen.
And then, the Scotus will have the moral backing they need to uphold Trump's position. If that could be accomplished by the end of 2023 by impeachment of Biden on those grounds, then Trump would have the wind at his back in 24.
From that, or variations of the same maneuvering, America will have had it's democratic system hijacked and stolen by fascism.
The OP has raised some interesting scenarios that can be imagined or be the groundwork for imagining how events could be made to flow for Trump if the D's have no power to stop it.
For now, the mission is to keep on promoting the narrative of the election being stolen.
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The military is the wild card that could stop fascism dead in it's tracks!
It's more than that.Same here.
My own take would be much shorter:
Trump is an asshole, but at least he was OUR asshole. It was easier for the globalists who want to abolish the nation-state to implement their agenda because he was an asshole instead of a smooth-talking mealy-mouthed politician like his predecessor.
There's nothing to be gained, and much to be lost in denying the possibilities. At least get to a point at which you could imagine Pence delaying the decision based on confusion. And fwiw, the tremendous support he would have in doing so.You ignored the 12th amendment since it doesn't support you.
Where does the 12th Amendment prohibit him from doing so?...Oh, nowhere.You ignored the 12th amendment since it doesn't support you. Pence has ZERO authority to handle the letters requests from states which are not valid anyway since those states CERTIFIED them on December 14, 2020, thus moot on what the states wanted.
Arizona Certified the Vote on December 14, 2020
Georgia Certified the Vote on December 14, 2020
Pennsylvania Certified the Vote on December 14, 2020
Why are you resisting the law and evidence presented?
I read it...There's no guarantee that they'll overturn the decision, nor that it won't end up in USSC....Point being that the votes aren't legally valid right now.
dozens if statistical impossibilities
The Impeachment process is a sick joke and is doomed to failure based only on the numbers, and not on the legitimacy of the charges. Taking that into consideration, then the impeachment of Biden would be based on the election steal. Or belief in it by enough Americans. I think the political climate doesn't have that in the bag yet, but it could be bagged very shortly by the power of a heavily weighted R congress.Your response was at least a reasonable one, and thank you for that. I have had a few, but honestly, few and far between.
Your supposition that a take over of congress by the GOP would spur more in depth looks at the election of 2020 is an excellent point. I disagree with you that a GOP takeover of congress will lead to a Biden impeachment. I can see no grounds for impeachment besides the border issue and the fact he is incompetent, and being incompetent is not impeachable grounds, lol. Add to that, the GOP will not have the numbers to make impeachment stick without proof of the STEAL before November, it would be an exercise in futility. Best bet, tie him and Cameltoe up for the remaining 2 years, then replace them.
It does appear that Trump is losing momentum. It would be foolish to argue against that. But Biden is losing it just as quickly and a very watershed event is fast approaching, in the possibility of America's involvement in a Ukraine war.As far as continuing the steal narrative, I also disagree with you on that. There is no longer enough political meat on the bone to continue. We have maxxed out what we have as evidence. Unless something new comes to the forefront that solidifies those claims while putting Leftists totally on a defensive footing, we are wasting our time. From what I see, THE STEAL puts us more on the defensive then Leftists. Not good for a supposed offensive political weapon.
Still, thanks for the good political response. It was appreciated.
Where does the 12th Amendment prohibit him from doing so?...Oh, nowhere.
The Electoral Count Act of 1887 is also in play.
There are reasons that several states appointed alternate electors....Are you not the least bit curious why that is?
Electoral Count Act - Wikipedia
So, I've been puzzled about this. The notion that if you went against Trump, that he had so much influence over the party that he could ruin your political career. Sure, ALL politicians try and push the agenda of their parties president, but where is the retaliation? Is it kinsinger and cheney? How do we know their censure has anything to do with Trump and not just the republican party as a whole protecting its own?
I mean, you could say that Pelosi holds the same power. Many people have already said she keeps her house Democrats in line. Why is that? Fear or loyalty? Hmm, sounds a lot like what people are doing with Trump. So, is it fear or loyalty?
I just never quite understood why they keep talking about trumpism, because trumpism isn't really a thing. The things that are considered trumpism are just republican party ideals. Tax cuts, abortion restrictions, border security....those are things that the Republican party have stood for, for a long time. What is it that makes trumpism a thing? What unique things does Trump believe in that makes him different than any other republican?
I mean, you could just as easily say higher taxes, loose border security and mask mandates are bidenisms, but that wouldn't be true because those are things that all democrats have believed in for a long time, they are not unique to Biden.
Anyway, I don't see the hammer that Trump supposedly weilds, maybe someone cab point it out to me, but, IF the above quote is true, if Trump really does hold people in jeopardy like that, then I say we don't need him. Your political beliefs and freedom to speak out should not be held by the grip of fear to anyone.
You're only trying to defuse a discussion on the possibilities and that is not in your best interests!Already showed you that the three states CERTIFIED the electors as required by state law!
Since all the people in those states signed the certificates (shown in detail in the links) the issue was fully decided on December 14, 2020, in all three states.
You can't add things into a constitution, it has to be LISTED GIVEN powers or it doesn't exist period. It states this and that is all for his role in the Congress:
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LINK
"The electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;--The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--"
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That is, it. The Congress does all the rest.
Stupid lie. You people live in an alternate reality.That "failed narrative" just got over 2 million fraudulent voted declared null and void in PA.
OK, so, I can understand that a politician may have many loyal followers, but this isn't a power that Trump weilds, but rather the voters who are loyal to him. It's not."don't cross Trump or he will get you" it's, "don't cross the voters who support Trump or THEY will vote against you".Good response This, and thank you for a thoughtful post. I will answer your question the best I can, although it may not satisfy what you asked.
This answer is NOT about Trump being a good or a bad man, but rather about the power he holds.
Remember that 90% of the time, maybe 95 to 99% of the time, midterm turnout is far lower than Presidential elections. In these midterms unlike when Presidential elections are going on, a few thousand votes can swing a major election. Look at Trumps turnouts for his rallys. Even if we take a low count, they are looking at 30,000 people, all hanging on what Trump has to say, and who he supports. A high count is 40 to 50,000! You running for something in the GOP, you want Trumps support as of this writing!
And then you have the Presidential 2020 election. Forget the outcome and if you think something was crooked or not; look at the votes Trump got, and over 90% went to the polls to do it, not mail it in. Besides Biden, he got MORE votes than anyone ever has, and his supporters trudged down to the polls to make it happen. If that is not political power, I do not know what is!
It is NOT only the Democrats who fear him, many in the GOP do too. To be 100% honest, neither party would cry if he disappeared yesterday. We have not seen a leading political figure wield this much power since FDR, and as a Republican, Ronald Reagan falls to second place by a wide margin in the power ranking of the ability to generate massive votes.
Agree, or disagree with him, this is why Washington wants him out of there. Agree or disagree on his foibles, this is what they will use to seperate his supporters from him, as best they can. Agree or disagree that he is bombastic, he is good, he is evil, he wants to be king, he wants to again be President, and that he can/can NOT contain his perceived Napolean complex, real or imagined; is what the whole political debate is about.
In closing, let me state this------------> Are you a good person my friend? If you wielded that kind of massive political power, could you contain yourself? If you held a rally and 30 to 50,000 people appeared imploring how wonderful you were, what would you think, sometimes 2 or 3 times a week? What do you think local GOP politicians running are willing to give for you to support their candidacy and mention their name?
How you would handle this, I can not say. How I would handle it, I am afraid to say. How Trump handles it, neither of us can say, but that is the political question of our time, going into 2024. As for 2022, lets clean the Lefts clock, and give ourselves time to ponder 2024.
Good luck!
The election was not stolen. Give it a rest already! No Proof! The Republicans are digging a huge hole that they will not be able to climb out of by sticking to this false narrative. Trump is a liar. It would be great if you could get a grip on reality.Frankly speaking, if the R's win big in both houses of congress, their power will make it relatively easy to prove that the election was stolen.
And then, the Scotus will have the moral backing they need to uphold Trump's position. If that could be accomplished by the end of 2023 by impeachment of Biden on those grounds, then Trump would have the wind at his back in 24.
From that, or variations of the same maneuvering, America will have had it's democratic system hijacked and stolen by fascism.
The OP has raised some interesting scenarios that can be imagined or be the groundwork for imagining how events could be made to flow for Trump if the D's have no power to stop it.
For now, the mission is to keep on promoting the narrative of the election being stolen.
--------------------------------------------------------------
The military is the wild card that could stop fascism dead in it's tracks!
I know very well that the election wasn't stolen.The election was not stolen. Give it a rest already! No Proof! The Republicans are digging a huge hole that they will not be able to climb out of by sticking to this false narrative. Trump is a liar. It would be great if you could get a grip on reality.
