The only way to stop putin: coalition between Ukraine and the West

[Litwin]

Amnesty International should advise Ukraine’s military where to position itsef as it defends civilian populated areas from a brutal aggressor.​

​

​

 

[Oddball]

You go fight, coward.

 

[Confederate Soldier]

I think it's a shame. Putin is doing nothing but squandering men and material, when he should have launched a major offensive during the summer. He's just dawdling for god knows what. Winter?

 

[Rambunctious]

The "west" doesn't care... Litwin do you think its a coincidence that this is happening under Biden?... like it did under Obama?.... and now China is getting paid by getting Taiwan and Hong Kong back....
The new global order is being set up by the globalists.....

 

[johngaltshrugged]

The "west" doesn't care... Litwin do you think its a coincidence that this is happening under Biden?... like it did under Obama?.... and now China is getting paid by getting Taiwan and Hong Kong back....
The new global order is being set up by the globalists.....

Nitwit is as clueless as they get. He slurps up whatever stupid propaganda they feed him & asks for seconds

 

[Rambunctious]

Yep Obama gave Putin Crimea and Joe is allowing Putin to take Ukraine back... one more term of a globalist U.S. president and the USSR will nearly be whole again....

 

[Litwin]

The "west" doesn't care...

 

[Dekster]

The US doesn't need to stop Putin. Vlad is one giant tumor at this point. The Ukraine, well, keep fighting the good fight in its essential civil war.

 

[ESay]

It would be good if such a coalition took place on practice, but hardly it can be really possible. Though, it depends on what the term 'West' is applied to, and what a 'coalition' means in this context.

Ukraine should seek an economic and military union with Poland as a main objective.

 

[Rambunctious]

The only way to stop Putin is to re elect Trump in 24.....

 

[toomuchtime_]

I think it's a shame. Putin is doing nothing but squandering men and material, when he should have launched a major offensive during the summer. He's just dawdling for god knows what. Winter?

This whole war is evidence of just how profoundly corrupt and incompetent the Russian government and military are. It took Russia 12 years to gain control of the tiny country of Chechnya that has only 1.4 million people and there is no way Russia's piddling little economy could afford maintain an occupation of Ukraine, which is a much larger and more populous nation.

The only conclusion to be drawn from this Russian debacle is that Putin is a fool who had no idea of what the Ukrainian people wanted or what the international political situation was or what the capabilities of the Russian economy or military were.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The only way to stop Putin is to re elect Trump in 24.....

Since Trump has expressed nothing but admiration for Putin, why would you think that?

 

[Rambunctious]

Since Trump has expressed nothing but admiration for Putin, why would you think that?

Can you show me an example of Trump admiring Putin or is that what you read on a bumper sticker in San Francisco....

 

[toomuchtime_]

Can you show me an example of Trump admiring Putin or is that what you read on a bumper sticker in San Francisco....

10 Dictators Donald Trump Has Said Nice Things About (Photos) - TheWrap

Donald Trump seems to have a lot of nice words for authoritarians

www.thewrap.com

Trump Says Ukraine Should Have Done Deal With Putin

The former president made the remarks on the same podcast where he called Putin's military tactics "genius."

www.newsweek.com

In effect Trump is saying that Ukraine should once again have given in to Putin's demands, which means that Putin would have nothing to fear if Trump were president. Although Trump likes to say the invasion would never have happened if he had been president, he has never said what he would have done differently to prevent the invasion.

 

[para bellum]

Although Trump likes to say the invasion would never have happened if he had been president, he has never said what he would have done differently to prevent the invasion.

There is no need to argue the counterfactual when we have the factual. It doesn't matter what someone supposes Trump might have done or not done.

The factual is that Russia didn't invade on Trump's watch.

Ukraine was already at war with Russia since 2014, and Trump had provided Javelin missiles, counter battery radar systems, coastal patrol vessels, and had trainers in Ukraine from the National Guard. Trump was critical of Western European countries for their NATO spending and dependence on Russian energy, but he increased US troop presence in Poland and Estonia.

The US assistance to Ukraine since Feb 24 has been a small fraction of what we are capable of providing if we were truly committed. We have the largest stockpiles of equipment in NATO, and we could easily be providing 10x what we have so far. Compare to what we gave Israel in 30 days in 1973. It included over 100 F-4's, in some cases they landed on an Israeli base, the US pilot got out, they slapped Israeli markings on it and were flying sorties over the Sinai the same day.

We didn't send heavy weapons to Ukraine until after they had turned Russia back from Kiev. If it wasn't for Ukraine's close neighbors, this would have been lost before the first US weapons even arrived.

One HIMARS or M270 for every 100km of front line is pathetic. It pisses me off that we don't do better for the people of Ukraine.

 

[toomuchtime_]

There is no need to argue the counterfactual when we have the factual. It doesn't matter what someone supposes Trump might have done or not done.

The factual is that Russia didn't invade on Trump's watch.

Ukraine was already at war with Russia since 2014, and Trump had provided Javelin missiles, counter battery radar systems, coastal patrol vessels, and had trainers in Ukraine from the National Guard. Trump was critical of Western European countries for their NATO spending and dependence on Russian energy, but he increased US troop presence in Poland and Estonia.

The US assistance to Ukraine since Feb 24 has been a small fraction of what we are capable of providing if we were truly committed. We have the largest stockpiles of equipment in NATO, and we could easily be providing 10x what we have so far. Compare to what we gave Israel in 30 days in 1973. It included over 100 F-4's, in some cases they landed on an Israeli base, the US pilot got out, they slapped Israeli markings on it and were flying sorties over the Sinai the same day.

We didn't send heavy weapons to Ukraine until after they had turned Russia back from Kiev. If it wasn't for Ukraine's close neighbors, this would have been lost before the first US weapons even arrived.

One HIMARS or M270 for every 100km of front line is pathetic. It pisses me off that we don't do better for the people of Ukraine.

So the question remains, what would Trump have done to prevent the invasion? The clearest indication of what Trump would have done seems to be

"Donald Trump suggested that Ukraine should have done a deal with President Vladimir Putin to prevent Russia invading the country."

Trump Says Ukraine Should Have Done Deal With Putin

The former president made the remarks on the same podcast where he called Putin's military tactics "genius."

www.newsweek.com

Sounds a lot like surrender to me.

So why would anyone think the invasion wouldn't have happened if Trump had won a second term?

 

[para bellum]

So the question remains, what would Trump have done to prevent the invasion? The clearest indication of what Trump would have done seems to be

"Donald Trump suggested that Ukraine should have done a deal with President Vladimir Putin to prevent Russia invading the country."

It's totally irrelevant. Especially what some journo thinks.

So why would anyone think the invasion wouldn't have happened if Trump had won a second term?

Because past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. Since Russia did not invade Ukraine during Trump's first term, it's up to you to convince us that they would have done so in his second term.

I'm not going to speculate on something that may or may not have happened in an alternate reality. The only thing that matters is what has actually happened.

Trump was unpredictable to our adversaries- Biden is not. That is an important consideration if you want to divine Putin's calculus.

 

[toomuchtime_]

It's totally irrelevant. Especially what some journo thinks.

Because past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. Since Russia did not invade Ukraine during Trump's first term, it's up to you to convince us that they would have done so in his second term.

I'm not going to speculate on something that may or may not have happened in an alternate reality. The only thing that matters is what has actually happened.

Trump was unpredictable to our adversaries- Biden is not. That is an important consideration if you want to divine Putin's calculus.

In other words you have no idea what Trump might have done to prevent the invasion.

 

[para bellum]

In other words you have no idea what Trump might have done to prevent the invasion.

I don't care what Trump "might have done". Trump didn't do whatever that would have been. Forget about Trump. This is about Ukraine.

The fact that Russia invaded under Biden's watch says nothing about Trump.

It suggests that in Putin's calculus, it's safer to invade when there is someone other than Trump in the oval, because his invasions straddled the Trump presidency, both before and after.

If you want to help Ukraine, leave the toxic US politics out of it. Advocate for support for Ukraine wherever you can find it.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I don't care what Trump "might have done". Trump didn't do whatever that would have been. Forget about Trump. This is about Ukraine.

The fact that Russia invaded under Biden's watch says nothing about Trump.

It suggests that in Putin's calculus, it's safer to invade when there is someone other than Trump in the oval, because his invasions straddled the Trump presidency, both before and after.

If you want to help Ukraine, leave the toxic US politics out of it. Advocate for support for Ukraine wherever you can find it.

In post after post you suggest the only reason for Putin to go to war this year was that Trump was no longer in office, but there is no basis for thinking Putin held Trump in such high regard that he would have hesitated to launch the invasion for fear of what Trump might do. So, if you want to help Ukraine, leave toxic US politics out of it.