The national debt just crossed $39 trillion—almost doubling since Trump vowed to erase it

[JonKoch]

Trump inherited record debt created by Obama and. Xiden

Yep when the GOP digs holes, they dig it deep and keep throwing sand back in the hole as the Democrats dig US out!

 

[struth]

Yep when the GOP digs holes, they dig it deep and keep throwing sand back in the hole as the Democrats dig US out!

Obama added more to the national debt then every president before him

 

[JonKoch]

Do democrats even know there is an invisible taxation line which will, when crossed, begin to do serious damage to the economy as well diminish federal tax revenues?

States Benefit From a Wave of Income Tax Reform​

• September 11, 2024
• BY Paige Terryberry

• 
  
  • ​

Combined Tax Rates: Including federal, state, and local taxes, the peak of the Laffer Curve (revenue-maximizing rate) may be around 54% to 73%.

“Most importantly, recent economic research has shown that productive economic activity is relatively unresponsive to increases in the top income tax rate, and the top income tax rate is well below the levels where it maximizes revenue. Economists Peter Diamond and Emmanuel Saez estimate that the revenue maximizing income tax rate is 73 percent (combing federal, state and local taxes).”

A word about the Federal Reserve....

Powell is an OLD idiot...
Bought and paid for by his own bloated ego that cannot ever admit to being wrong, making a mistake, or having a lapse in judgment.

He needs to be fired yesterday and replaced with someone competent.

You want proof?
Here's him in his own words.

Cheeto is that you?

 

[JohnDB]

The size of the economy and tax receipts keep the national debt manageable....

However....
Because the American economy is so large that its debt is in proportion one of the largest debts in the world....which is also hurting the global economy.

Basic economic theory here....
In order to service this debt we must have tax receipts that make the payments. But this overspending causes inflation.

We all want to see the chart of our economy growing by starting low on the left side and grinding up as it tracks left.

Certain activities in our economy flatten that upward movement. Gambling, taxes, and inflation are the biggest flattening activities that Governments can produce.

IOW our Government cant create an economic boom....but they most definitely can destroy one.

 

[JonKoch]

Obama added more to the national debt then every president before him

BZZ a lie, but hey when it's ALL you have go for it. Care to point to LAWS he passed that created that debt? You know those things we can track to put credit or blame on a presidents policy?

Like tax cuts for the richest like Ronnie, Dubya or Cheeto? Maybe some unfunded wars like Iraq? Or maybe UNFUNDED Medicare expansion like Dubya/GOP pushed through in the middle of the night (3am to 6am) to pass privatization of Medicare that costs over $230 BILLION this F/Y alone, without a single penny of funding, of course.


I'll wait

 

[JohnDB]

Combined Tax Rates: Including federal, state, and local taxes, the peak of the Laffer Curve (revenue-maximizing rate) may be around 54% to 73%.








Cheeto is that you?

Nope....I'm me....been me my entire life.

 

[JonKoch]

The size of the economy and tax receipts keep the national debt manageable....

However....
Because the American economy is so large that its debt is in proportion one of the largest debts in the world....which is also hurting the global economy.

Basic economic theory here....
In order to service this debt we must have tax receipts that make the payments. But this overspending causes inflation.

We all want to see the chart of our economy growing by starting low on the left side and grinding up as it tracks left.

Certain activities in our economy flatten that upward movement. Gambling, taxes, and inflation are the biggest flattening activities that Governments can produce.

IOW our Government cant create an economic boom....but they most definitely can destroy one.

It's not overspending (well maybe GOP wars and unfunded Medicare expansion) but gutting revenues that caused US debt to climb


Clinton had US above 19% of GDP (back where Carter had US) when he had 4 surpluses, 3 after vetoing the GOP's $792+ billion tax cut. Dubya/GOP policy pushed it below 15%. Obama got it back to almost 18% (with ACA taxes too) but Cheeto dropped it to 16%

The sweet spot was 19%-20% of GDP to fund Gov't, but will needs 22%-23% of GDP to have a balance today, over $1 trillion a year in interest alone, and seniors cost more

 

[struth]

BZZ a lie, but hey when it's ALL you have go for it. Care to point to LAWS he passed that created that debt? You know those things we can track to put credit or blame on a presidents policy?

Like tax cuts for the richest like Ronnie, Dubya or Cheeto? Maybe some unfunded wars like Iraq? Or maybe UNFUNDED Medicare expansion like Dubya/GOP pushed through in the middle of the night (3am to 6am) to pass privatization of Medicare that costs over $230 BILLION this F/Y alone, without a single penny of funding, of course.


I'll wait

Those tax cuts added revenue

Obama added more to the debt then any president before him through massive spending

1) Obamacare
2) shovel ready jobs 2009

False claim Trump increased debt more than any president | Fact check

The total federal debt increased more under the Obama administration than it did under Trump, according to government data.

www.usatoday.com

 

[JonKoch]

Those tax cuts added revenue

Obama added more to the debt then any president before him through massive spending

1) Obamacare
2) shovel ready jobs 2009

False claim Trump increased debt more than any president | Fact check

The total federal debt increased more under the Obama administration than it did under Trump, according to government data.

www.usatoday.com

"Those tax cuts added revenue"


LMAOROG. Sure they did, that's why economists score the tax cuts as costs, because they bring in more revenues

On January 20, 2009, the day President Barack Obama was inaugurated, the total U.S. national debt stood at approximately $10.626 trillion

On January 20, 2017, the day Donald Trump was inaugurated as the 45th President of the United States, the total outstanding federal debt was $19.95 trillion


On January 20, 2021, the total US gross federal debt was $27.75 trillion.


SO IN 8 YEARS, Obama had $9.3+ trillion of new debt. NOW list the laws HE passed that created that debt?


In 4 years Cheeto had $7.8 trillion of new debt.




LET ME HELP YOU WITH OBAMA



Key drivers of this debt increase included:


The Great Recession and Economic Downturn: The financial crisis resulted in significantly lower tax revenues and higher automatic spending on "safety net" programs, which significantly increased the deficit from the moment he took office.



Extension of Bush-Era Tax Cuts: A significant portion of the debt attributed to the Obama administration (over $4 trillion) stemmed from extending tax cuts originally enacted under President George W. Bush, including the 2001/2003 cuts and the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) patch.


The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (Stimulus): Passed in 2009, this act added roughly $800 billion to $2 trillion (including interest) in spending aimed at boosting the economy.


Emergency Funding and Defense Spending: Continued funding for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, along with other emergency appropriations, contributed to the debt.


Mandatory Spending and Entitlements: Rising costs for entitlement programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security played a role, as well as the implementation of the Affordable Care Act (ACA), although the ACA had a smaller net impact on the deficit than other factors.

While President Obama signed the legislation, analysts note that debt is a result of joint action between the president and Congress, and much of the increase was driven by policies designed to prevent a deeper economic collapse during the 2008–2009 financial crisis

Has President Obama Doubled the National Debt? | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget

2016-07-25-While accepting the Republican nomination for president, Donald Trump sai

www.crfb.org

TAX CUTS BRING IN MORE REVENUES? LMAOROG

 

[JohnDB]

It's not overspending (well maybe GOP wars and unfunded Medicare expansion) but gutting revenues that caused US debt to climb


Clinton had US above 19% of GDP (back where Carter had US) when he had 4 surpluses, 3 after vetoing the GOP's $792+ billion tax cut. Dubya/GOP policy pushed it below 15%. Obama got it back to almost 18% (with ACA taxes too) but Cheeto dropped it to 16%

The sweet spot was 19%-20% of GDP to fund Gov't, but will needs 22%-23% of GDP to have a balance today, over $1 trillion a year in interest alone, and seniors cost more

Ummmm....the money and munitions given to Ukraine and Iran, Obamacare, and etc had nothing to do with anything? Kinda one sided ain't ya?

I'm for neither side except the people....which excludes politicians, lawyers and all such types of low moral character.

Sure, we need government to help keeping the sheep from getting fleeced. Anti trust laws firmly enforced, ALL insider trading stopped, a well funded and supplied military. (2% of government budget) and actually fully funding SS for those who have 80-160+ calendar quarters paid in instead of giving SS to illegal aliens.

I'm all for Government investment that the private sector wont or shouldn't....like the interstate system. It assisted the trucking industry and made it grow exponentially. Dock upgrades so shipping is easy and quick. Airports for commercial and recreational traffic.
And IMHO I think that the Government should do something for energy travel routes.....just saying....its feasible and doable. (Pipelines and transmission systems)

But we also have huge rats nests of corruption like Farm Credit....which is at the point of ridiculousness for corruption. Not even Trump nor Elon will touch that mess.

The percentages you stated are subject for debate without party recriminations but general congressional recriminations....that's fair.
Since the criminality of insider trading by Congress has been removed....BOTH sides have been playing games. No one side is innocent. The most frequent trader is a Republican and the biggest winner is a Democrat. WTF! Congress is making decisions that affect their personal pocket regardless of whether the people they represent benefit or not...and usually not....because rhetoric and spin can fix everything. So can backroom deals that keep things from getting voted on. Or poison pill amendments that make the Bill's worthless.

 

[JonKoch]

Those tax cuts added revenue

Obama added more to the debt then any president before him through massive spending

1) Obamacare
2) shovel ready jobs 2009

False claim Trump increased debt more than any president | Fact check

The total federal debt increased more under the Obama administration than it did under Trump, according to government data.

www.usatoday.com

Bush CEA Chair Mankiw: Claim That Broad-Based Income Tax Cuts Increase Revenue Is Not "Credible," Capital Income Tax Cuts Also Don't Pay For Themselves

Bush-Appointed Federal Reserve Chair Bernanke: "I Don't Think That As A General Rule Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves."


Bush Treasury Secretary Paulson: "As A General Rule, I Don't Believe That Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves."

Bush OMB Director Nussle: "Some Say That [The Tax Cut] Was A Total Loss. Some Say They Totally Pay For Themselves. It's Neither Extreme."


Bush CEA Chairman Lazear: "As A General Rule, We Do Not Think Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves."


Bush Economic Adviser Viard: "Federal Revenue Is Lower Today Than It Would Have Been Without The Tax Cuts."


Bush Treasury Official Carroll: "We Do Not Think Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves."


Reagan Chief Economist Feldstein: "It's Not That You Get More Revenue By Lowering Tax Rates, It Is That You Don't Lose As Much."

Feldstein In 1986: "Hyperbole" That Reagan Tax Cut "Would Actually Increase Tax Revenue."

Conservative Economist Holtz-Eakin: "No Serious Research Evidence" Suggests Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves."

 

[struth]

"Those tax cuts added revenue"


LMAOROG. Sure they did, that's why economists score the tax cuts as costs, because they bring in more revenues

On January 20, 2009, the day President Barack Obama was inaugurated, the total U.S. national debt stood at approximately $10.626 trillion

On January 20, 2017, the day Donald Trump was inaugurated as the 45th President of the United States, the total outstanding federal debt was $19.95 trillion


On January 20, 2021, the total US gross federal debt was $27.75 trillion.


SO IN 8 YEARS, Obama had $9.3+ trillion of new debt. NOW list the laws HE passed that created that debt?


In 4 years Cheeto had $7.8 trillion of new debt.




LET ME HELP YOU WITH OBAMA



Key drivers of this debt increase included:


The Great Recession and Economic Downturn: The financial crisis resulted in significantly lower tax revenues and higher automatic spending on "safety net" programs, which significantly increased the deficit from the moment he took office.



Extension of Bush-Era Tax Cuts: A significant portion of the debt attributed to the Obama administration (over $4 trillion) stemmed from extending tax cuts originally enacted under President George W. Bush, including the 2001/2003 cuts and the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) patch.


The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (Stimulus): Passed in 2009, this act added roughly $800 billion to $2 trillion (including interest) in spending aimed at boosting the economy.


Emergency Funding and Defense Spending: Continued funding for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, along with other emergency appropriations, contributed to the debt.


Mandatory Spending and Entitlements: Rising costs for entitlement programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security played a role, as well as the implementation of the Affordable Care Act (ACA), although the ACA had a smaller net impact on the deficit than other factors.

While President Obama signed the legislation, analysts note that debt is a result of joint action between the president and Congress, and much of the increase was driven by policies designed to prevent a deeper economic collapse during the 2008–2009 financial crisis

Has President Obama Doubled the National Debt? | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget

2016-07-25-While accepting the Republican nomination for president, Donald Trump sai

www.crfb.org

TAX CUTS BRING IN MORE REVENUES? LMAOROG

What economist?

All one has to do is look at the public records, tax revenue increased after those tax cuts

 

[markef]

Yeah, I've heard they had something like that, drew on the back of a napkin? Weird how Ronnie had a top rate of 70% his first 6 years in office right? That socialist

Next thing you know, the right will explain how Clinton and Obama increasing taxes hurt US too

Do you think Ronald Reagan believed like democrats that there will never be any harm to the economy if the rich are taxed nearly 100% of their income? What is a fair tax on the rich?

 

[markef]

Combined Tax Rates: Including federal, state, and local taxes, the peak of the Laffer Curve (revenue-maximizing rate) may be around 54% to 73%.

https://www.epi.org/blog/high-top-income-tax-rates-fight/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CMost%20importantly%2C%20recent%20economic%20research,income%20is%20to%20tax%20rates.

Do higher taxes drive investors out of the market, thus damaging the economy?

 

[markef]

Yep when the GOP digs holes, they dig it deep and keep throwing sand back in the hole as the Democrats dig US out!

Obama had a unique plan for digging the country out of the deregulated black homeownership mortgage fiasco - he simply doubled the US debt and then spread free cash all around to his friends, supporters, American needs, and foreign terrorists.

 

[JonKoch]

Ummmm....the money and munitions given to Ukraine and Iran, Obamacare, and etc had nothing to do with anything? Kinda one sided ain't ya?

I'm for neither side except the people....which excludes politicians, lawyers and all such types of low moral character.

Sure, we need government to help keeping the sheep from getting fleeced. Anti trust laws firmly enforced, ALL insider trading stopped, a well funded and supplied military. (2% of government budget) and actually fully funding SS for those who have 80-160+ calendar quarters paid in instead of giving SS to illegal aliens.

I'm all for Government investment that the private sector wont or shouldn't....like the interstate system. It assisted the trucking industry and made it grow exponentially. Dock upgrades so shipping is easy and quick. Airports for commercial and recreational traffic.
And IMHO I think that the Government should do something for energy travel routes.....just saying....its feasible and doable. (Pipelines and transmission systems)

But we also have huge rats nests of corruption like Farm Credit....which is at the point of ridiculousness for corruption. Not even Trump nor Elon will touch that mess.

The percentages you stated are subject for debate without party recriminations but general congressional recriminations....that's fair.
Since the criminality of insider trading by Congress has been removed....BOTH sides have been playing games. No one side is innocent. The most frequent trader is a Republican and the biggest winner is a Democrat. WTF! Congress is making decisions that affect their personal pocket regardless of whether the people they represent benefit or not...and usually not....because rhetoric and spin can fix everything. So can backroom deals that keep things from getting voted on. Or poison pill amendments that make the Bill's worthless.

"..the money and munitions given to Ukraine and Iran, Obamacare"

Ukraine? lmaorog. Less than $200 billion TOTAL given to Ukraine really hurt the budget shaking head

IRAN? No funding for that, YET. The $200 billion DOD asked for and the $500 billion EXTRA for DOD asked by Cheeto, will hurt.

Obamacares WAS 100% funded via taxes. Didn't add o the debt until GOP unfunded it

Undocumented do not receive SS, though they fund it (and Medicare)

 

[JonKoch]

Do higher taxes drive investors out of the market, thus damaging the economy?

Ronnie Reagan had a top rate of 70% his first 6 years, I hear the right loved his economy.

 

[markef]

BZZ a lie, but hey when it's ALL you have go for it. Care to point to LAWS he passed that created that debt? You know those things we can track to put credit or blame on a presidents policy?

Like tax cuts for the richest like Ronnie, Dubya or Cheeto? Maybe some unfunded wars like Iraq? Or maybe UNFUNDED Medicare expansion like Dubya/GOP pushed through in the middle of the night (3am to 6am) to pass privatization of Medicare that costs over $230 BILLION this F/Y alone, without a single penny of funding, of course.


I'll wait

Obama did not pass the laws - he had his democrat cronies double the debt, and he just signed the massive spending bills when they came across his desk.

 

[JonKoch]

Obama had a unique plan for digging the country out of the deregulated black homeownership mortgage fiasco - he simply doubled the US debt and then spread free cash all around to his friends, supporters, American needs, and foreign terrorists.

Yeah, it was the blacks, lol. You know all those housing markets exploding in Harlem, Detroit, DC, Oakland etc during Dubya's cheering on the Banksters world wide ponzi scheme

DAMN YOU BILL CLINTON

 

[struth]

Ronnie Reagan had a top rate of 70% his first 6 years, I hear the right loved his economy.

Wow you really are dumb, the tax rate dropped from 70 percent after the Econ recovery act of 1981-

What years do you think Reagan was president?