CDZ The Most Important Four Words in Politics

[Tom Paine 1949]

The four most important words in politics?

GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM

One can argue that government agencies need reforms, but government in itself is not the problem. This is what Will was talking about. Going to extremes.

The four most important words in politics cannot be “Government is the Problem” because ... politics is all about governing! Whether you discuss the act and art of governing, the institutions of government, whether you talk about Greek polities, or the Roman Empire, or the U.S.A., or a state or province, we are talking about ... GOVERNMENTS.

There is no getting around the need for government, whether on a local, provincial, or national level. Indeed, we are fast entering an epoch where even the largest and strongest national governments must give up some of their sovereignty by entering into agreements on trade, commerce, tax, diplomatic and immigration matters. World courts, world wide agreements on dealing with ecological and nuclear dangers, all are leading the world to move slowly towards ... world government.

“State power” at its most fundamental is usually defined as the power to control the legislature, the courts, the police and army. Those who think “the government” is a fundamental problem (in the sense of a bad institution to be weakened or removed as much as possible) must be in favor of “defunding” all these. Anarchists, libertarians, and communists who want the state to “wither away” have sometimes advanced their own theories of how this can happen. Most have proved absurd in our modern post-industrialized world.

Many big corporations in actual fact want to weaken government in all areas where it limits their potential profits and scope of action. Some conservatives dream of replacing the state with private police, education, courts, ad infinitum. On all these questions, where does “MAGA” really stand?

This just proves that you are an idiot. Those evil corporations(code word by the left) which employ 10s of thousands of people, who willingly sought employment and agreed with the terms of their jobs, provide goods and services that other people want and need. Now in comes some dumbass liberal politician who hasnt created a thing in their whole sorry life, must regulate that corporation because some liberal fuck doesnt want to work, but get everything those hard working people have. So the government takes from the hardworking person so he can give to the liberal lazy fuck who will vote to keep that politician in power. This brings resentment of the workers against those who are fucking worthless.

“This just proves that you are an idiot...”

Thanks for the respectful response. /s

If you thought about what I have written more deeply you might realize I am in no way denouncing corporations or large-scale industry and commerce. Just the opposite. Our present world and modern society could not even exist without them. I spoke only of some corporations and those ideologues who believe in no government or no government regulation of corporations.

The fight against giant banks, Wall Street, and giant corporate power has deep roots in U.S. history. Such legally recognized groups (granted public “charters” with “legal personhood” and specially delimited powers) were once banned from openly financIng political candidates. But over time they came to dominate our economic life.

Since then it has always been part of progressive thinking that they must be broken up when they achieve monopoly status and their political power should be limited. Their political power, according to progressive thought, should always be subordinated to public regulation and people’s power. Otherwise we become — many say we already are — a government of “We, The Corporations.”

The problem today, to my mind, is that corporations’ economic and political power has grown to the point where it has captured not just both political parties, but the state itself — including all regulatory agencies and the very consciousness of most ordinary people. Of course the state itself has grown and many economic, political and popular factions fight to control it. But given our pro-corporate 2-party duopoly, and prevailing party-partisan ideologies, “the people” are left confused, voting mainly for “lesser evils,” and unable to exercise power in their own interests.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

The four most important words in politics?

GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM

One can argue that government agencies need reforms, but government in itself is not the problem. This is what Will was talking about. Going to extremes.

The four most important words in politics cannot be “Government is the Problem” because ... politics is all about governing! Whether you discuss the act and art of governing, the institutions of government, whether you talk about Greek polities, or the Roman Empire, or the U.S.A., or a state or province, we are talking about ... GOVERNMENTS.

There is no getting around the need for government, whether on a local, provincial, or national level. Indeed, we are fast entering an epoch where even the largest and strongest national governments must give up some of their sovereignty by entering into agreements on trade, commerce, tax, diplomatic and immigration matters. World courts, world wide agreements on dealing with ecological and nuclear dangers, all are leading the world to move slowly towards ... world government.

“State power” at its most fundamental is usually defined as the power to control the legislature, the courts, the police and army. Those who think “the government” is a fundamental problem (in the sense of a bad institution to be weakened or removed as much as possible) must be in favor of “defunding” all these. Anarchists, libertarians, and communists who want the state to “wither away” have sometimes advanced their own theories of how this can happen. Most have proved absurd in our modern post-industrialized world.

Many big corporations in actual fact want to weaken government in all areas where it limits their potential profits and scope of action. Some conservatives dream of replacing the state with private police, education, courts, ad infinitum. On all these questions, where does “MAGA” really stand?

This just proves that you are an idiot. Those evil corporations(code word by the left) which employ 10s of thousands of people, who willingly sought employment and agreed with the terms of their jobs, provide goods and services that other people want and need. Now in comes some dumbass liberal politician who hasnt created a thing in their whole sorry life, must regulate that corporation because some liberal fuck doesnt want to work, but get everything those hard working people have. So the government takes from the hardworking person so he can give to the liberal lazy fuck who will vote to keep that politician in power. This brings resentment of the workers against those who are fucking worthless.

“This just proves that you are an idiot...”

Thanks for the respectful response. /s

If you thought about what I have written more deeply you might realize I am in no way denouncing corporations or large-scale industry and commerce. Just the opposite. Our present world and modern society could not even exist without them. I spoke only of some corporations and those ideologues who believe in no government or no government regulation of corporations.

The fight against giant banks, Wall Street, and giant corporate power has deep roots in U.S. history. Such legally recognized groups (granted public “charters” with “legal personhood” and specially delimited powers) were once banned from openly financIng political candidates. But over time they came to dominate our economic life.

Since then it has always been part of progressive thinking that they must be broken up when they achieve monopoly status and their political power should be limited. Their political power, according to progressive thought, should always be subordinated to public regulation and people’s power. Otherwise we become — many say we already are — a government of “We, The Corporations.”

The problem today, to my mind, is that corporations’ economic and political power has grown to the point where it has captured not just both political parties, but the state itself — including all regulatory agencies and the very consciousness of most ordinary people. Of course the state itself has grown and many economic, political and popular factions fight to control it. But given our pro-corporate 2-party duopoly, and prevailing party-partisan ideologies, “the people” are left confused, voting mainly for “lesser evils,” and unable to exercise power in their own interests.

So you have no problem with people like Nancy Pelosi who steers billion dollar contracts to her husband, but then wants to have your taxes increased because of her debt she puts on the US? This Cronie Capitalism has been going on a long time, corporations will accept monies given to them, by Congress, but there has been one guy who up to the Kung Flu, was taking to the Cronies, and the swamp creatures were exposed. The economy was going gang busters, but then again, Joe Biden working with China, released upon the world that Wuhan Virus, which has closed up shop. Government is the problem......

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The four most important words in politics?

GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM

One can argue that government agencies need reforms, but government in itself is not the problem. This is what Will was talking about. Going to extremes.

The four most important words in politics cannot be “Government is the Problem” because ... politics is all about governing! Whether you discuss the act and art of governing, the institutions of government, whether you talk about Greek polities, or the Roman Empire, or the U.S.A., or a state or province, we are talking about ... GOVERNMENTS.

There is no getting around the need for government, whether on a local, provincial, or national level. Indeed, we are fast entering an epoch where even the largest and strongest national governments must give up some of their sovereignty by entering into agreements on trade, commerce, tax, diplomatic and immigration matters. World courts, world wide agreements on dealing with ecological and nuclear dangers, all are leading the world to move slowly towards ... world government.

“State power” at its most fundamental is usually defined as the power to control the legislature, the courts, the police and army. Those who think “the government” is a fundamental problem (in the sense of a bad institution to be weakened or removed as much as possible) must be in favor of “defunding” all these. Anarchists, libertarians, and communists who want the state to “wither away” have sometimes advanced their own theories of how this can happen. Most have proved absurd in our modern post-industrialized world.

Many big corporations in actual fact want to weaken government in all areas where it limits their potential profits and scope of action. Some conservatives dream of replacing the state with private police, education, courts, ad infinitum. On all these questions, where does “MAGA” really stand?

This just proves that you are an idiot. Those evil corporations(code word by the left) which employ 10s of thousands of people, who willingly sought employment and agreed with the terms of their jobs, provide goods and services that other people want and need. Now in comes some dumbass liberal politician who hasnt created a thing in their whole sorry life, must regulate that corporation because some liberal fuck doesnt want to work, but get everything those hard working people have. So the government takes from the hardworking person so he can give to the liberal lazy fuck who will vote to keep that politician in power. This brings resentment of the workers against those who are fucking worthless.

“This just proves that you are an idiot...”

Thanks for the respectful response. /s

If you thought about what I have written more deeply you might realize I am in no way denouncing corporations or large-scale industry and commerce. Just the opposite. Our present world and modern society could not even exist without them. I spoke only of some corporations and those ideologues who believe in no government or no government regulation of corporations.

The fight against giant banks, Wall Street, and giant corporate power has deep roots in U.S. history. Such legally recognized groups (granted public “charters” with “legal personhood” and specially delimited powers) were once banned from openly financIng political candidates. But over time they came to dominate our economic life.

Since then it has always been part of progressive thinking that they must be broken up when they achieve monopoly status and their political power should be limited. Their political power, according to progressive thought, should always be subordinated to public regulation and people’s power. Otherwise we become — many say we already are — a government of “We, The Corporations.”

The problem today, to my mind, is that corporations’ economic and political power has grown to the point where it has captured not just both political parties, but the state itself — including all regulatory agencies and the very consciousness of most ordinary people. Of course the state itself has grown and many economic, political and popular factions fight to control it. But given our pro-corporate 2-party duopoly, and prevailing party-partisan ideologies, “the people” are left confused, voting mainly for “lesser evils,” and unable to exercise power in their own interests.

So you have no problem with people like Nancy Pelosi who steers billion dollar contracts to her husband, but then wants to have your taxes increased because of her debt she puts on the US? This Cronie Capitalism has been going on a long time, corporations will accept monies given to them, by Congress, but there has been one guy who up to the Kung Flu, was taking to the Cronies, and the swamp creatures were exposed. The economy was going gang busters, but then again, Joe Biden working with China, released upon the world that Wuhan Virus, which has closed up shop. Government is the problem......

God alone knows how you conclude from what I have said that I “have no problem with people like Nancy Pelosi” or Joe Biden. I have done nothing but denounce “crony capitalism” since I arrived here at USMB — which may be why I know how to spell it, and you do not.

Your mad partisanship means that, like Donald Trump, you will usually not even mention the words “crony capitalism,” preferring almost meaningless expressions like “the swamp.”

For Trump, “the swamp” is just a name for Democrats and anybody who opposes his own incompetent personal authority. Trump has not “drained the swamp.” He has merely slightly re-populated it. He has always been a creature from one of its outlying, but darkest and gloomiest, lagoons.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

The four most important words in politics?

GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM

One can argue that government agencies need reforms, but government in itself is not the problem. This is what Will was talking about. Going to extremes.

The four most important words in politics cannot be “Government is the Problem” because ... politics is all about governing! Whether you discuss the act and art of governing, the institutions of government, whether you talk about Greek polities, or the Roman Empire, or the U.S.A., or a state or province, we are talking about ... GOVERNMENTS.

There is no getting around the need for government, whether on a local, provincial, or national level. Indeed, we are fast entering an epoch where even the largest and strongest national governments must give up some of their sovereignty by entering into agreements on trade, commerce, tax, diplomatic and immigration matters. World courts, world wide agreements on dealing with ecological and nuclear dangers, all are leading the world to move slowly towards ... world government.

“State power” at its most fundamental is usually defined as the power to control the legislature, the courts, the police and army. Those who think “the government” is a fundamental problem (in the sense of a bad institution to be weakened or removed as much as possible) must be in favor of “defunding” all these. Anarchists, libertarians, and communists who want the state to “wither away” have sometimes advanced their own theories of how this can happen. Most have proved absurd in our modern post-industrialized world.

Many big corporations in actual fact want to weaken government in all areas where it limits their potential profits and scope of action. Some conservatives dream of replacing the state with private police, education, courts, ad infinitum. On all these questions, where does “MAGA” really stand?

This just proves that you are an idiot. Those evil corporations(code word by the left) which employ 10s of thousands of people, who willingly sought employment and agreed with the terms of their jobs, provide goods and services that other people want and need. Now in comes some dumbass liberal politician who hasnt created a thing in their whole sorry life, must regulate that corporation because some liberal fuck doesnt want to work, but get everything those hard working people have. So the government takes from the hardworking person so he can give to the liberal lazy fuck who will vote to keep that politician in power. This brings resentment of the workers against those who are fucking worthless.

“This just proves that you are an idiot...”

Thanks for the respectful response. /s

If you thought about what I have written more deeply you might realize I am in no way denouncing corporations or large-scale industry and commerce. Just the opposite. Our present world and modern society could not even exist without them. I spoke only of some corporations and those ideologues who believe in no government or no government regulation of corporations.

The fight against giant banks, Wall Street, and giant corporate power has deep roots in U.S. history. Such legally recognized groups (granted public “charters” with “legal personhood” and specially delimited powers) were once banned from openly financIng political candidates. But over time they came to dominate our economic life.

Since then it has always been part of progressive thinking that they must be broken up when they achieve monopoly status and their political power should be limited. Their political power, according to progressive thought, should always be subordinated to public regulation and people’s power. Otherwise we become — many say we already are — a government of “We, The Corporations.”

The problem today, to my mind, is that corporations’ economic and political power has grown to the point where it has captured not just both political parties, but the state itself — including all regulatory agencies and the very consciousness of most ordinary people. Of course the state itself has grown and many economic, political and popular factions fight to control it. But given our pro-corporate 2-party duopoly, and prevailing party-partisan ideologies, “the people” are left confused, voting mainly for “lesser evils,” and unable to exercise power in their own interests.

So you have no problem with people like Nancy Pelosi who steers billion dollar contracts to her husband, but then wants to have your taxes increased because of her debt she puts on the US? This Cronie Capitalism has been going on a long time, corporations will accept monies given to them, by Congress, but there has been one guy who up to the Kung Flu, was taking to the Cronies, and the swamp creatures were exposed. The economy was going gang busters, but then again, Joe Biden working with China, released upon the world that Wuhan Virus, which has closed up shop. Government is the problem......

God alone knows how you conclude from what I have said that I “have no problem with people like Nancy Pelosi” or Joe Biden. I have done nothing but denounce “crony capitalism” since I arrived here at USMB — which may be why I know how to spell it, and you do not.

Your mad partisanship means that, like Donald Trump, you will usually not even mention the words “crony capitalism,” preferring almost meaningless expressions like “the swamp.”

For Trump, “the swamp” is just a name for Democrats and anybody who opposes his own incompetent personal authority. Trump has not “drained the swamp.” He has merely slightly re-populated it. He has always been a creature from one of its outlying, but darkest and gloomiest, lagoons.

So you want to put into power a guy who cant remember what day it is or where he is at, who has been in the swamp for 40 plus years? That same guy who made his family millions of dollars by colluding with foreign countries? I realize now why you put this in CDZ because that keeps you from being called names......


Here is to the mods for not moving this crap to the rubber room

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Soon after the American Taliban Convention nominating Quid Pro Joe, Comey, Brennan, Weissman and mothers will soon be hearing these 4 words:

You are under arrest

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Our Trump fanatics at USMB have proven again and again that they can’t even conceive of the meaning of “Up To A Point.” Surely that is not true of all Conservatives, or all Republicans, or even some who might vote for Trump reluctantly, but it is certainly the mindset of the Trump nutters and other extreme rightwing trolls who fill these discussions.

It’s really great when we have political commenters who know the value of these four little words, be they liberal or conservative. Thanks to John Law for this thoughtful OP!

 

[kaz]

All politics takes place on a slippery slope. The most important four words in politics are up to a point.
George Will

***************

I am not a huge fan of George Will but he nailed it on the head with that pithy statement. Both Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, don’t seem to grasp the simple concept that there are limits. Just because you agree in part to some position does not mean you need to go to the extreme.

It is a concept no one these days seems to get.

The Democrats four favorite words are "free government cheese"

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The Democrats four favorite words are "free government cheese"

I would pay more attention to your comment if you at least learned ... to count to four.

Alternatively, you could try to speak to the ideas raise in this post and discussion.

 

[kaz]

The Democrats four favorite words are "free government cheese"

I would pay more attention to your comment if you at least learned ... to count to four.

Alternatively, you could try to speak to the ideas raise in this post and discussion.

Other than the first part flying over your head, thanks Dad, I'll do that

 

[kaz]

The four most important words in politics?

GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM

One can argue that government agencies need reforms, but government in itself is not the problem. This is what Will was talking about. Going to extremes.

The four most important words in politics cannot be “Government is the Problem” because ... politics is all about governing! Whether you discuss the act and art of governing, the institutions of government, whether you talk about Greek polities, or the Roman Empire, or the U.S.A., or a state or province, we are talking about ... GOVERNMENTS.

There is no getting around the need for government, whether on a local, provincial, or national level. Indeed, we are fast entering an epoch where even the largest and strongest national governments must give up some of their sovereignty by entering into agreements on trade, commerce, tax, diplomatic and immigration matters. World courts, world wide agreements on dealing with ecological and nuclear dangers, all are leading the world to move slowly towards ... world government.

“State power” at its most fundamental is usually defined as the power to control the legislature, the courts, the police and army. Those who think “the government” is a fundamental problem (in the sense of a bad institution to be weakened or removed as much as possible) must be in favor of “defunding” all these. Anarchists, libertarians, and communists who want the state to “wither away” have sometimes advanced their own theories of how this can happen. Most have proved absurd in our modern post-industrialized world.

Many big corporations in actual fact want to weaken government in all areas where it limits their potential profits and scope of action. Some conservatives dream of replacing the state with private police, education, courts, ad infinitum. On all these questions, where does “MAGA” really stand?

This just proves that you are an idiot. Those evil corporations(code word by the left) which employ 10s of thousands of people, who willingly sought employment and agreed with the terms of their jobs, provide goods and services that other people want and need. Now in comes some dumbass liberal politician who hasnt created a thing in their whole sorry life, must regulate that corporation because some liberal fuck doesnt want to work, but get everything those hard working people have. So the government takes from the hardworking person so he can give to the liberal lazy fuck who will vote to keep that politician in power. This brings resentment of the workers against those who are fucking worthless.

“This just proves that you are an idiot...”

Thanks for the respectful response. /s

If you thought about what I have written more deeply you might realize I am in no way denouncing corporations or large-scale industry and commerce. Just the opposite. Our present world and modern society could not even exist without them. I spoke only of some corporations and those ideologues who believe in no government or no government regulation of corporations.

The fight against giant banks, Wall Street, and giant corporate power has deep roots in U.S. history. Such legally recognized groups (granted public “charters” with “legal personhood” and specially delimited powers) were once banned from openly financIng political candidates. But over time they came to dominate our economic life.

Since then it has always been part of progressive thinking that they must be broken up when they achieve monopoly status and their political power should be limited. Their political power, according to progressive thought, should always be subordinated to public regulation and people’s power. Otherwise we become — many say we already are — a government of “We, The Corporations.”

The problem today, to my mind, is that corporations’ economic and political power has grown to the point where it has captured not just both political parties, but the state itself — including all regulatory agencies and the very consciousness of most ordinary people. Of course the state itself has grown and many economic, political and popular factions fight to control it. But given our pro-corporate 2-party duopoly, and prevailing party-partisan ideologies, “the people” are left confused, voting mainly for “lesser evils,” and unable to exercise power in their own interests.

So you have no problem with people like Nancy Pelosi who steers billion dollar contracts to her husband, but then wants to have your taxes increased because of her debt she puts on the US? This Cronie Capitalism has been going on a long time, corporations will accept monies given to them, by Congress, but there has been one guy who up to the Kung Flu, was taking to the Cronies, and the swamp creatures were exposed. The economy was going gang busters, but then again, Joe Biden working with China, released upon the world that Wuhan Virus, which has closed up shop. Government is the problem......

God alone knows how you conclude from what I have said that I “have no problem with people like Nancy Pelosi” or Joe Biden. I have done nothing but denounce “crony capitalism” since I arrived here at USMB — which may be why I know how to spell it, and you do not.

Your mad partisanship means that, like Donald Trump, you will usually not even mention the words “crony capitalism,” preferring almost meaningless expressions like “the swamp.”

For Trump, “the swamp” is just a name for Democrats and anybody who opposes his own incompetent personal authority. Trump has not “drained the swamp.” He has merely slightly re-populated it. He has always been a creature from one of its outlying, but darkest and gloomiest, lagoons.

Funny stuff. He said you don't have a problem with Pelosi and Biden. You responded to that by denying it, then bashing Trump. Maybe you could have gone on and addressed how you do have a problem with Pelosi and Biden instead of deflecting to Trump

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

I never waste my time “documenting” my word. Especially to every ultra-partisan pro-Trump Tom, Dick and Harry. My commenting history here is completely open and my views well known on USMB.

Now, have you anything to say about the OP? Recall it is precisely about the importance of moderation in politics. To me that means not always looking at things from a party-partisan black-and-white perspective. Of not assuming because one dislikes Biden one must like Trump, and vice versa!

 

[sartre play]

Today the four words are PLEASE KILL THE TRUST ACT.
Mitch Mc is putting this act in what ever rescue package comes out of the senate.
The Trust ACT deserves no trust. he/it wants to create what it calls a rescue package to fast track Future CUTS to Social Security & Medicare. If you are on SS / Medicare you need to take a closer look at the Trust act. sneaking this senior hurting act into an aid package NOT GOOD.