Zone1 Does the world still need good people, or are we all free to become monsters now?

[Donald H]

I believe you are wrong on the geopolitical issues.

You couldn't be an American if you thought I am right.
Trump himself has declared that America started the war and is lying about the motive.

And of course the oil issue of self-sufficiendy was created to lend credibility to America's ME wars.

 

[Dante]

You couldn't be an American if you thought I am right.
Trump himself has declared that America started the war and is lying about the motive.

And of course the oil issue of self-sufficiendy was created to lend credibility to America's ME wars.

"America's oil self-sufficiency myth?"

Few sane people believed that, so...

 

[Dante]

LOL. You're confused!

Not at all.

The United Empire Loyalists' Association of Canada​

History of Canada (1763–1867​

New Brunswick - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ding]

Substack. Sam Harris has asked the question: "Does the world still need good people, or are we all free to become monsters now?"

He mentions "personal integrity," and posits an argument of a slippery slope - "The day we celebrate our children for their selfishness and cruelty will be the point of no return."

Does the world still need good people, or are we all free to become monsters now?​

​

It may seem priggish to say it, given the current “vibe shift,” but we really can’t give up on personal integrity just yet. The day we celebrate our children for their selfishness and cruelty will be the point of no return.​

​

Clearly, we need systems and institutions that can withstand the intrusions of a charismatic psychopath. We also need ones that can resist when otherwise normal people behave like psychopaths (e.g. on social media). However, if we want to live in good societies—where most games are positive-sum and decency is the norm—there is no substitute for having a sufficient number of people who are actually good, or struggling to be so.​

​

It is, therefore, ominous that our political culture now celebrates figures who are obviously unethical—liars, bullies, and conmen—many of whom see no reason to even pretend to harbor deeper values or virtues. Whatever your politics, President Trump has said and done a thousand things that should make it impossible to admire him as a person—and he will commit further atrocities this week. Elon Musk has achieved a similarly vile orbit—lying with abandon, making common cause with racists and lunatics, and pointlessly defaming ordinary people—it seems, just for the fun of it. Both men are conspicuous for the degree to which they still resemble children, having retained a juvenile sense of entitlement, recklessness, and self-absorption. Both are already cautionary tales about the corrupting influences of fame, wealth, and power—even as they continue to achieve new heights...​

I have to wonder how many people who voted for Trump (not necessarily the hard base), feel about the Elephant(s) in the room. The morality that seems to put aside in favor of what -- petty revenge, payback, righting perceived wrongs (real and imagined), cultural issues...

It goes on and on. Forces beyond the control of people continue to rend, rip apart the very fabric of the American polity.

It all comes out in the wash. Virtue is the greatest organizing principle in mankind.

 

[ding]

G-d has a cruel sense of humour or perhaps evil is just more powerful. It seems that we as a society are devolving.

It's human nature to see more bad than good but it just isn't so.

 

[ding]

It's true Dante, there's not a single Christian brave enough to defend their biblel's bullshit on Genesis.

That's because you are afraid to discuss it in the bull ring with me, you pussy.

 

[Woodznutz]

Substack. Sam Harris has asked the question: "Does the world still need good people, or are we all free to become monsters now?"

He mentions "personal integrity," and posits an argument of a slippery slope - "The day we celebrate our children for their selfishness and cruelty will be the point of no return."

Does the world still need good people, or are we all free to become monsters now?​

​

It may seem priggish to say it, given the current “vibe shift,” but we really can’t give up on personal integrity just yet. The day we celebrate our children for their selfishness and cruelty will be the point of no return.​

​

Clearly, we need systems and institutions that can withstand the intrusions of a charismatic psychopath. We also need ones that can resist when otherwise normal people behave like psychopaths (e.g. on social media). However, if we want to live in good societies—where most games are positive-sum and decency is the norm—there is no substitute for having a sufficient number of people who are actually good, or struggling to be so.​

​

It is, therefore, ominous that our political culture now celebrates figures who are obviously unethical—liars, bullies, and conmen—many of whom see no reason to even pretend to harbor deeper values or virtues. Whatever your politics, President Trump has said and done a thousand things that should make it impossible to admire him as a person—and he will commit further atrocities this week. Elon Musk has achieved a similarly vile orbit—lying with abandon, making common cause with racists and lunatics, and pointlessly defaming ordinary people—it seems, just for the fun of it. Both men are conspicuous for the degree to which they still resemble children, having retained a juvenile sense of entitlement, recklessness, and self-absorption. Both are already cautionary tales about the corrupting influences of fame, wealth, and power—even as they continue to achieve new heights...​

I have to wonder how many people who voted for Trump (not necessarily the hard base), feel about the Elephant(s) in the room. The morality that seems to put aside in favor of what -- petty revenge, payback, righting perceived wrongs (real and imagined), cultural issues...

It goes on and on. Forces beyond the control of people continue to rend, rip apart the very fabric of the American polity.

Business people of all political and religious persuasions have raised the prices of their products because of the tariffs, on inventory that they didn't pay the higher costs for. Put that in your hair covered computer.

 

[Woodznutz]

It's human nature to see more bad than good but it just isn't so.

Like Paul observed, we now call bad good and good bad, so much so that we don't know the difference anymore.

 

[Donald H]

That's because you are afraid to discuss it in the bull ring with me, you pussy.

If you want to change your mind and claim that Genesis is literally true, then I'll be happy to take the opposite position in the bull ring or any where you choose. What's the point now that we are in agreement?

That's never been an issue because you have never claimed Genesis to be literally true. You're taking a sensible position on that in the same way you understand that Jonah and the big fish story is bogus nonsense. So let's debate Genesis!

And fwiw, I invite all Christians to join the debate! I've been trying for months to convince all our Christians to take a position on Genesis and their bibles being the literal truth?

Here's my choice of a title for the debate: "Genesis is nothing but lies"..

The sooner we debate, the sooner we can separate the 'bad' people from the atheists!

 

[Woodznutz]

If you want to change your mind and claim that Genesis is literally true, then I'll be happy to take the opposite position in the bull ring or any where you choose. What's the point now that we are in agreement?

That's never been an issue because you have never claimed Genesis to be literally true. You're taking a sensible position on that in the same way you understand that Jonah and the big fish story is bogus nonsense. So let's debate Genesis!

And fwiw, I invite all Christians to join the debate! I've been trying for months to convince all our Christians to take a position on Genesis and their bibles being the literal truth?

Here's my choice of a title for the debate: "Genesis is nothing but lies"..

Well, the talking snake isn't true. The real meaning is more terrifying.

 

[Donald H]

Well, the talking snake isn't true. The real meaning is more terrifying.

That's a good start!

The talking snake isn't true or terrifying but do explain what you think is more terrifying?

 

[ding]

Like Paul observed, we now call bad good and good bad, so much so that we don't know the difference anymore.

Maimonides said it best:

"MEN frequently think that the evils in the world are more numerous than the good things, that just isn't the case. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change. If man were never subject to change there could be no generation: there would be one single being, but no individuals forming a species. It would be in vain to expect to see living beings formed of the blood of menstruous women and the semen virile, who will not die, will never feel pain, or will move perpetually, or will shine like the sun. Whatever is formed of any matter receives the most perfect form possible in that species of matter: in each individual case the defects are in accordance with the defects of that individual matter. The best and most perfect being that can be formed of the blood and the semen is the species of man, for as far as man's nature is known, he is living, reasonable, and mortal. It is therefore impossible that man should be free from this species of evil. You will, nevertheless, find that the evils of the above kind which befall man are very few and rare.

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils. The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils." Maimonides

 

[ding]

If you want to change your mind and claim that Genesis is literally true, then I'll be happy to take the opposite position in the bull ring or any where you choose. What's the point now that we are in agreement?

That's never been an issue because you have never claimed Genesis to be literally true. You're taking a sensible position on that in the same way you understand that Jonah and the big fish story is bogus nonsense. So let's debate Genesis!

And fwiw, I invite all Christians to join the debate! I've been trying for months to convince all our Christians to take a position on Genesis and their bibles being the literal truth?

Here's my choice of a title for the debate: "Genesis is nothing but lies"..

The sooner we debate, the sooner we can separate the 'bad' people from the atheists!

You don't know my mind. How about you discover it in the bull ring with me?

 

[Donald H]

You don't know my mind. How about you discover it in the bull ring with me?

Let's try that my friend!

 

[theHawk]

Substack. Sam Harris has asked the question: "Does the world still need good people, or are we all free to become monsters now?"

He mentions "personal integrity," and posits an argument of a slippery slope - "The day we celebrate our children for their selfishness and cruelty will be the point of no return."

Does the world still need good people, or are we all free to become monsters now?​

​

It may seem priggish to say it, given the current “vibe shift,” but we really can’t give up on personal integrity just yet. The day we celebrate our children for their selfishness and cruelty will be the point of no return.​

​

Clearly, we need systems and institutions that can withstand the intrusions of a charismatic psychopath. We also need ones that can resist when otherwise normal people behave like psychopaths (e.g. on social media). However, if we want to live in good societies—where most games are positive-sum and decency is the norm—there is no substitute for having a sufficient number of people who are actually good, or struggling to be so.​

​

It is, therefore, ominous that our political culture now celebrates figures who are obviously unethical—liars, bullies, and conmen—many of whom see no reason to even pretend to harbor deeper values or virtues. Whatever your politics, President Trump has said and done a thousand things that should make it impossible to admire him as a person—and he will commit further atrocities this week. Elon Musk has achieved a similarly vile orbit—lying with abandon, making common cause with racists and lunatics, and pointlessly defaming ordinary people—it seems, just for the fun of it. Both men are conspicuous for the degree to which they still resemble children, having retained a juvenile sense of entitlement, recklessness, and self-absorption. Both are already cautionary tales about the corrupting influences of fame, wealth, and power—even as they continue to achieve new heights...​

I have to wonder how many people who voted for Trump (not necessarily the hard base), feel about the Elephant(s) in the room. The morality that seems to put aside in favor of what -- petty revenge, payback, righting perceived wrongs (real and imagined), cultural issues...

It goes on and on. Forces beyond the control of people continue to rend, rip apart the very fabric of the American polity.

My goodness….terminal case of TDS here.

Now you’re justifying your denial of God because Donald Trump won the election?

Well, good luck with that. I guess you want to choose an eternity in hell cursing God and Donald Trump?

In your case the TDS isn’t just terminal, but will be eternal.

 

[theHawk]

That's never been an issue because you have never claimed Genesis to be literally true. You're taking a sensible position on that in the same way you understand that Jonah and the big fish story is bogus nonsense. So let's debate Genesis

The problem with your argument is your assumption that all these events are natural. When in fact they were supernatural, by the power of God.

For example Jonah and the sea creature. He was killed by it and went to Sheol, and was miraculously brought back to life 3 days later. This is the “sign” of Jonah Jesus said would mark the Son of Man (Messiah).


Nonetheless, I can’t wait to hear you explain how life was created out of simple atomic material in the natural world. Something no scientist has come close to doing. So be sure to tag me in your thread.

 

[Donald H]

The problem with your argument is your assumption that all these events are natural. When in fact they were supernatural, by the power of God.

Basically the reason why religion shouldn't be argued against non-supernatural logic. Ding wanted the debate, not me. Ding and I long ago concluded that Genesis and the bibles are not literally true. Are you with us?

For example Jonah and the sea creature. He was killed by it and went to Sheol, and was miraculously brought back to life 3 days later. This is the “sign” of Jonah Jesus said would mark the Son of Man (Messiah).

That's a new one, but it shouldn't be counted out. So far we have two explanations:

1. The bible story is pure bullshit.
2. It's true but nobody wants to say so.
3. He was killed and didn't really live in the big fish for 3 days. (yours) (which proves the bibles are bullshit) (back to 2 stories.)

Nonetheless, I can’t wait to hear you explain how life was created out of simple atomic material in the natural world. Something no scientist has come close to doing. So be sure to tag me in your thread.d

Wait for it.


Science has done one better than that! It hasn't tried to explain how the god was created out of atomic material, because the god is bulllshit. (supernatural bullshit as you suggest)

As you suggested, we can't debate or even discuss supernatural bullshit and logical natural science together.

Does the Bible say the earth is about 6000 years old? – Young Earth

The age of the earth is controversial since "science" and the Bible disagree. So, does the Bible say the earth is about 6000 years old?

www.neverthirsty.org

Their conclusion: The earth is about 10,000 years old. An atheist like me can't argue that! It must be true! Proven!

 

[theHawk]

1. The bible story is pure bullshit.
2. It's true but nobody wants to say so.
3. He was killed and didn't really live in the big fish for 3 days. (yours) (which proves the bibles are bullshit) (back to 2 stories.)

You aren’t making any sense.

The story of Jonah happened. How does your science prove God doesn’t exist?

You still can’t show us how life was created. So you are the one that believes in fairy tales.

The Bible is the truth. You just don’t want to admit it

 

[ding]

Let's try that my friend!

Excellent. I created the callout and even gave it the title you requested. The ball's in your court.

I don't believe this will end well for you.

 

[ding]

Ding and I long ago concluded that Genesis and the bibles are not literally true.

And yet contain literal truths like George Washington was indeed a man of high character even if he didn't really chop down a cherry tree and say he cannot tell a lie.