Zone1 The Handmaid's Tale: A Perversion of Christianity

[Clyde 154]

Hitler said he was a Christian. A Christian is someone that builds their faith upon the actual content of the Word of God found in scripture. (Rom. 10:17) No where in the NT is a Christian authorized to beat their spouse. You demonstrate your faith or lack thereof by your actions not your lip service. "You have faith, I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show my faith by my works." -- James 2:18 Faith void of works is a dead faith. -- James 2:26

 

[JoeB131]

Clyde, why are you quoting yourself?

Hitler claimed to be a Christian, and no Christians within Germany contradicted him.

 

[ding]

Um, yeah, I am only loyal to Dread C'Thulhu.

Except I know he's made up.

Then it will be of no use to you.

How is it a "sacrifice", exactly? If you take the supposed claim of Christians at face value, that God let a part of himself become mortal, get crucified, and then come back to life, exactly what was God giving up? He didn't even stay dead!

He suffered death and a pretty painful one at that. So when you blame him for creating an unfair world, he's already been convicted and punished for that crime.

It seems to me that a God who has decided to make homosexuality a sin that is punishable by death and this life and eternal damnation in the next one, is very cruel when he makes someone gay.

You can blame the Jews for that one although I'm not sure they ever enforced it.

(And no, I don't believe anyone chooses to be gay or straight, they just are.)

Do people choose to act on it?

 

[JoeB131]

He suffered death and a pretty painful one at that. So when you blame him for creating an unfair world, he's already been convicted and punished for that crime.

Um, except he didn't fix it.

When you're an immortal being, crucifixion is like the Man Flu.

You are one of those who watched Mel Gibson's Torture Porn, aren't you?

You can blame the Jews for that one although I'm not sure they ever enforced it.

Hold on now, are you saying the Jews made that stuff up and "God" had nothing to do with it?

Do people choose to act on it?

Why shouldn't they? If everyone involved is a consenting adult, I'm not seeing the problem. And given the popularity of Lesbian Porn, I don't think most people are that upset about it.

 

[Meriweather]

So tell me, how is eating Fish on a Friday during Lent getting to know God better? Is God hanging out at the Red Lobster? Hey, I think Jesus was cleaning my table... Oh, no, wait, that was Hey-Zeus doing that.

Self discipline leading to spiritual strengthening. For example do pro basketball players only focus on shooting baskets, or do they watch their diet, lift weights, run sprints to reach their ultimate goal? For many, nurturing one's spirit is as significant as nourishing one's body to who we are and want to be

Okay, so here's the thing. Why did God make some people gay or trans if it's a sin. That seems unfair.

The human body comes with attributes you probably consider a handicap or "unfair". We can all let our sexual desires rule over us, take the first place in our lives--or we can choose to give sexuality a lesser priority. Ever wonder why you (and others who are not gay or trans) are so anxious to urge gays and trans to make sex such a priority? Are the obese urged to give into obesity? Are those who are ugly urged to do everything they can to be uglier? How about the ignorant--should they be encouraged to remain ignorant? True, there are some today who urge self destruction over self improvement.

Everything else isn't trying to impose itself on the rest of us.

Every time one opens his/her mouth it is to impose what comes out of it on everyone else. For example, our own positions on abortion, on gay/trans, public schools, etc. How is that working?

 

[JoeB131]

Self discipline leading to spiritual strengthening. For example do pro basketball players only focus on shooting baskets, or do they watch their diet, lift weights, run sprints to reach their ultimate goal? For many, nurturing one's spirit is as significant as nourishing one's body to who we are and want to be

Look, if you need to grovel in front of your imaginary sky friend to feel better about yourself, have at it.

I find it a useless activity.

The human body comes with attributes you probably consider a handicap or "unfair". We can all let our sexual desires rule over us, take the first place in our lives--or we can choose to give sexuality a lesser priority. Ever wonder why you (and others who are not gay or trans) are so anxious to urge gays and trans to make sex such a priority? Are the obese urged to give into obesity? Are those who are ugly urged to do everything they can to be uglier? How about the ignorant--should they be encouraged to remain ignorant? True, there are some today who urge self destruction over self improvement.

Wow. I bet you go around fat-shaming people, don't you? You seem like the type.

What people do in their own bedrooms is their own business. Not the government, not the church, and not some nosy person down the street who secretly wishes she was getting laid.

Every time one opens his/her mouth it is to impose what comes out of it on everyone else. For example, our own positions on abortion, on gay/trans, public schools, etc. How is that working?

Given you keep trying to impose yourself on other people, it's working very badly.

The schools are shit because we don't teach kids science that might offend the God-botherers.

 

[Clyde 154]

Clyde, why are you quoting yourself?

Hitler claimed to be a Christian, and no Christians within Germany contradicted him.

Training to be liberal? Do you really think I'd admit to a mistake? Sometimes, my digits outrun my brain. Accidental by nature.......sloppy by design. I once thought I was wrong........turned out I was only mistaken.

Question? Does the mistaken edit stop one's ability to comprehend the content, context and subject matter?

 

[Meriweather]

Look, if you need to grovel in front of your imaginary sky friend to feel better about yourself, have at it.

I find it a useless activity.

Do you grovel in front of your wife? Your boss? Your friends? Perhaps that was the problem you ran into with your relationship with God. You were groveling.

You might try partnership, but I suspect with your attachment to groveling, you would be expecting God to grovel in front of you.

What you fail to understand is that you not only made up your own picture of God, you made up another picture of the faithful's relationships with God. Delve farther. Truth is also a great story, perhaps an even better one.

 

[Meriweather]

Wow. I bet you go around fat-shaming people, don't you? You seem like the type.

That is incredibly funny, but then it does illustrate you know nothing of my 'type'. (I'm still laughing, but moving on....)

What people do in their own bedrooms is their own business. Not the government, not the church, and not some nosy person down the street who secretly wishes she was getting laid.

Exactly. No one should know or even speculate. So why are you pushing gay/trans? I am perfectly happy without knowing the sexuality of anyone, let alone discussing it. Is that the first thing you want to know about someone? It's probably the very last thing I care about as there are so many other interesting topics. For me, what goes on in the bedroom is no more interesting than what goes on in the bathroom.

 

[JoeB131]

Do you grovel in front of your wife? Your boss? Your friends? Perhaps that was the problem you ran into with your relationship with God. You were groveling.

Nope, I don't do any of that. I establish clear boundaries with real people. I don't grovel in front of imaginary ones.

You might try partnership, but I suspect with your attachment to groveling, you would be expecting God to grovel in front of you.

Naw, I just asked him to make my mom's cancer better. But he was too busy "not existing", which I would imagine takes up all of his time.

What you fail to understand is that you not only made up your own picture of God, you made up another picture of the faithful's relationships with God. Delve farther. Truth is also a great story, perhaps an even better one.

I see a different story.

A corrupt bunch of perverts started the Catholic Church, and have, for the last 2000 years, exploited people's fear of what they don't understand to bilk them out of money. Until the Protestants pointed out the corruption, only to go on to make their own cheap knockoffs.

 

[Meriweather]

The schools are shit because we don't teach kids science that might offend the God-botherers.

(red highlight, mine) - What bothers me about not teaching kids science is they cannot identify the birds, small animals, and plant life in their own area. How many students graduate knowing anything about landscaping, plumbing, and electrical work? All these are science, and all leave high school without ever learning about any of the rudiments. By the way, students are equally as bored by evolution as by anything else that no longer holds their interest. As they are taught evolution at least every three years, by the third year eyes are rolling and "not again" moans can be heard. Catch up with the times.

 

[Meriweather]

Nope, I don't do any of that. I establish clear boundaries with real people. I don't grovel in front of imaginary ones.

Yet you are so great at imagining what people of faith are living. Try living in/with reality sometime.

Naw, I just asked him to make my mom's cancer better. But he was too busy "not existing", which I would imagine takes up all of his time.

That happens a lot for those who ask who they imagine God to be, and further imagine what his purposes should be. Your imagined God did not live up to your imagined purposes for the imagined God. Could that be the root of the problem? You imagined what God should be and imagined his purpose--and concluded everyone else was imagining God as well.

Joe, when I was a small child, my mom wasn't dying of cancer so my approach to God was entirely different. I could not imagine who God was, or even what he was doing. I have always had an excellent imagination and have always understood the difference between imagination and reality. I wanted to know the reality of God. That was the road I traveled, one that took up all my childhood. But I learned, even experienced.

My advice: Give up imagining God, as he is well beyond imagining. I get why you imagine God should cure a little boy's mom of cancer. I even get that imagining God does not exist as being the easier path to travel. Try to understand that those who opt to pursue the reality of God are far from groveling. In fact, we are more "science-minded" than you may even believe yourself to be.

I see a different story.

A corrupt bunch of perverts started the Catholic Church, and have, for the last 2000 years, exploited people's fear of what they don't understand to bilk them out of money. Until the Protestants pointed out the corruption, only to go on to make their own cheap knockoffs.

I could show you some of my quilting, but I wouldn't want to. I have a wall-hanging that is especially meaningful to me, but you would turn it over and show me all its faults and repairs. Yes, it is well-known the Church, too, has its underside. However, taking time to look at its topside can bring blessings, even awe, as well.

 

[JoeB131]

Yet you are so great at imagining what people of faith are living. Try living in/with reality sometime.

I have to live with these nuts most of my childhood, thanks.

My advice: Give up imagining God, as he is well beyond imagining. I get why you imagine God should cure a little boy's mom of cancer. I even get that imagining God does not exist as being the easier path to travel. Try to understand that those who opt to pursue the reality of God are far from groveling. In fact, we are more "science-minded" than you may even believe yourself to be.

I remember as early as sixth grade, Sr. Mary Butch* trying to handle the congnitive dissonance between the Bible and Science. It didn't go well.

(* For those who came in late, I refer to all the nuns at my grammar school as "Sr. Mary Butch".)

I could show you some of my quilting, but I wouldn't want to. I have a wall-hanging that is especially meaningful to me, but you would turn it over and show me all its faults and repairs. Yes, it is well-known the Church, too, has its underside. However, taking time to look at its topside can bring blessings, even awe, as well.

They just released this bio-pic about Michael Jackson that only covered his music career, but left out all the parts about the Kiddy-diddling. It was rightfully panned. I'm sure there are still some people who love his music and like to pretend that stuff with the kids was all made up.

 

[Meriweather]

I have to live with these nuts most of my childhood, thanks.

Or...what you imagined they were. Even so, sorry you had such a rough upbringing. So did I in another way, but most of us, eventually, grow beyond it.

I remember as early as sixth grade, Sr. Mary Butch* trying to handle the congnitive dissonance between the Bible and Science. It didn't go well.

I, too, went to Catholic school. We were taught evolution and there was no "cognitive dissonance". I think I mentioned before, my Catholic grandmother (a nurse) was also taught this at least fifty years before I was, and there was no "cognitive dissonance" at that time either. I remember someone asking Grandma, "So you believe we are the descendants of monkeys?" Grandma responded with a firm, "Nonsense! If anything, we would be descendants of some ancient kind of fish."

They just released this bio-pic about Michael Jackson that only covered his music career, but left out all the parts about the Kiddy-diddling. It was rightfully panned. I'm sure there are still some people who love his music and like to pretend that stuff with the kids was all made up.

You missed the point. Neither my quilting nor the Church nor true fans of Michael Jackson's music "pretend" the faulty side is not there or never happened. Only, that more is to be gained from the good.

 

[Hafar1014]

Or...what you imagined they were. Even so, sorry you had such a rough upbringing. So did I in another way, but most of us, eventually, grow beyond it.

I, too, went to Catholic school. We were taught evolution and there was no "cognitive dissonance". I think I mentioned before, my Catholic grandmother (a nurse) was also taught this at least fifty years before I was, and there was no "cognitive dissonance" at that time later. I remember someone asking Grandma, "So you believe we are the descendants of monkeys?" Grandma responded with a firm, "Nonsense! If anything, we would be descendants of some ancient kind of fish."

You missed the point. Neither my quilting nor the Church nor true fans of Michael Jackson's music "pretend" the faulty side is not there or never happened. Only, that more is to be gained from the good.

You are correct on every point. Well done

 

[Hafar1014]

Yet you are so great at imagining what people of faith are living. Try living in/with reality sometime.

That happens a lot for those who ask who they imagine God to be, and further imagine what his purposes should be. Your imagined God did not live up to your imagined purposes for the imagined God. Could that be the root of the problem? You imagined what God should be and imagined his purpose--and concluded everyone else was imagining God as well.

Joe, when I was a small child, my mom wasn't dying of cancer so my approach to God was entirely different. I could not imagine who God was, or even what he was doing. I have always had an excellent imagination and have always understood the difference between imagination and reality. I wanted to know the reality of God. That was the road I traveled, one that took up all my childhood. But I learned, even experienced.

My advice: Give up imagining God, as he is well beyond imagining. I get why you imagine God should cure a little boy's mom of cancer. I even get that imagining God does not exist as being the easier path to travel. Try to understand that those who opt to pursue the reality of God are far from groveling. In fact, we are more "science-minded" than you may even believe yourself to be.


I could show you some of my quilting, but I wouldn't want to. I have a wall-hanging that is especially meaningful to me, but you would turn it over and show me all its faults and repairs. Yes, it is well-known the Church, too, has its underside. However, taking time to look at its topside can bring blessings, even awe, as well.

We all have an image of God or as you say imagining. Nothing wrong with that. The human mind is designed to ponder concepts we cant fully understand. I believe many atheists have anger at God. Something happened or went wrong in a big way. I can identify with that. I was taken from my mother at birth and put in a foster home. It was always my lifes main goal to search for her. At 52 I made the decision to search. In adoption we call this the moment we wake up and allow our hidden memories to come out. I had zero information and all records were sealed. So how do you find a person you know nothing about? Its impossible. So with the help of a psych medium I found her in 8 months. What I found was a grave. I was angry, I felt cheated, I was angry at God. I remained that way for a year. I was very active in adoption reform and was an expert witness before lawmakers in NJ and PA. I was part of group that fought for the right to obtain our original birth certificates. One of the members and I became very close. We all were very close have the same experiences. He was a Catholic priest. His name was Tom Brosnan and I told him how I felt. What he said changed my life. He said When you learn to own your pain it will no longer own you. That changed everything and I accepted the reality that life isnt fair or unfair. Bad things that happen arent Gods fault. From that moment on I became a survivor and found inner strength and wisdom in my experiences.

 

[JoeB131]

Or...what you imagined they were. Even so, sorry you had such a rough upbringing. So did I in another way, but most of us, eventually, grow beyond it.

My way of growing beyond it was to reject it and try to debunk it so no one else falls for that nonsense.

I do the same thing with Republicanism.

I, too, went to Catholic school. We were taught evolution and there was no "cognitive dissonance". I think I mentioned before, my Catholic grandmother (a nurse) was also taught this at least fifty years before I was, and there was no "cognitive dissonance" at that time either. I remember someone asking Grandma, "So you believe we are the descendants of monkeys?" Grandma responded with a firm, "Nonsense! If anything, we would be descendants of some ancient kind of fish."

I remember Sr. Mary Butch trying to tell us that Adam and Eve might have been apes. Yup, she had cognitive dissonance.

And understandably so.
If we evolved, there was no original sin.
If there were no original sin, there would be no need for Jesus to come down and be such a drama queen about being crucified.

You missed the point. Neither my quilting nor the Church nor true fans of Michael Jackson's music "pretend" the faulty side is not there or never happened. Only, that more is to be gained from the good.

Sure they do. The Catholic Church loves to cover stuff up, from starting crusades to buggering altar boys.

 

[Meriweather]

My way of growing beyond it was to reject it and try to debunk it so no one else falls for that nonsense.

I do the same thing with Republicanism.

Some interpretations definitely need debunking. That's why I use etymology, and may use it too much. Of course, your "debunkings" are not rooted in etymology, but in your feelings, which is why so many take them with a grain of salt.

I remember Sr. Mary Butch trying to tell us that Adam and Eve might have been apes. Yup, she had cognitive dissonance.

And understandably so.
If we evolved, there was no original sin.
If there were no original sin, there would be no need for Jesus to come down and be such a drama queen about being crucified.

Allows one to let oneself off the hook, doesn't it. No one is comfortable being in the wrong.

Sure they do. The Catholic Church loves to cover stuff up, from starting crusades to buggering altar boys.

If everyone knows about all of this, it couldn't have been much of a cover-up.

 

[JoeB131]

Some interpretations definitely need debunking. That's why I use etymology, and may use it too much. Of course, your "debunkings" are not rooted in etymology, but in your feelings, which is why so many take them with a grain of salt.

Actually, I debunk Catholicism by showing most of what they believe isn't in the bible.

If first noticed it in grammar school when they Bible said "No Graven Images", and the Church had all these statues that need money put in their boxes.

Allows one to let oneself off the hook, doesn't it. No one is comfortable being in the wrong.

Oh, I wouldn't say that.

Either we were created by God or we evolved from apes.

Not both.

If everyone knows about all of this, it couldn't have been much of a cover-up.

Not for lack of trying.

 

[Meriweather]

Actually, I debunk Catholicism by showing most of what they believe isn't in the bible.

If first noticed it in grammar school when they Bible said "No Graven Images", and the Church had all these statues that need money put in their boxes.

Yes, a child's shallow (if any) understanding of the culture,history, etymology, and practices of Old Testament biblical times. Children splash in the shallows of the ocean. Adult understanding takes a greater interest in the depths.

Sometimes it's hard to believe you were ever in Catholic school. I was taught by the Sisters of Notre Dame--excellent teachers and very fine women. Did your teachers ever take you through comparing a lucky rabbit's foot or a lucky penny to artwork? Perhaps they never bothered with your class writing to and contributing to the poor.