The difference between capitalism and socialism in a nutshell

[Edgetho]

According to Forbes, Sweden is more business friendly than the US.

Some socialism, huh?

Best Countries for Business

 

[Edgetho]

In a nutshell: pure capitalism is an economic system with no moral compass and a view of workers as nothing more than machinary, pure socialism is an economic system with no individual incentives to do better, improve productivity or create something new.

No moral compass, huh?

Love how you forgot to mention that socialism murdered 100,000,000 people in the 20th Century.......

The one that you and I were born in

 

[Coyote]

In a nutshell: pure capitalism is an economic system with no moral compass and a view of workers as nothing more than machinary, pure socialism is an economic system with no individual incentives to do better, improve productivity or create something new.

Well no.
No economic system has a moral compass. People have a moral compass.

Economic systems are made of of people however.

Capitalism produces opportunities for people to do better for themselves, and in doing so they do better for others as well.

I think that's the theory but the reality doesn't work that way because human nature is involved. Some of the worst abuses have occurred under unrestricted capitalism - sweat shops, triangle shirtwaist factory fire etc - those abuse's didn't stop on their own do to the kindness of the owners, human life is cheap in that kind of society. They stopped because of compulsion - via government regulation.

Socialism produces opportunities for poltiicians and bureaucrats to dole out favors to their friends,cronies, and supporters.

Socialism forces a moral compass on the process by creating safety nets and making the rights of workers as important as the rights of employers.

Using your logic capitalism produces opportunities for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

Socialism fails every single time. Capitalism succeeds every single time.

I disagree.

As an economic system pure socialism fail in practice because it offers no incentives for the individual to work harder, be innovative or take risks.
As an economic system pure capitalism fails in practice because it encourages the cheapening of human rights and rewards a few very highly at the expense of the many.

In my opinion - a blend of the two is the best because each tends to assume that humane nature is better than it really is.

 

[Coyote]

In a nutshell: pure capitalism is an economic system with no moral compass and a view of workers as nothing more than machinary, pure socialism is an economic system with no individual incentives to do better, improve productivity or create something new.

No moral compass, huh?

Love how you forgot to mention that socialism murdered 100,000,000 people in the 20th Century.......

The one that you and I were born in

Genocidal dictatorships taking an ideology to an extreme (and for personal gain) were responsible for horrendous acts. There is nothing in the actual ideology that calls for that. Look at modern socialist countries, like in Scandinavia, for example.

The real failing in socialism is that it fails to reward the individual and we are individuals.

Edited to add - actually, Sweden isn't socialist, it's a blend so I'm wrong about that

 

[PaintMyHouse]

In a nutshell: pure capitalism is an economic system with no moral compass and a view of workers as nothing more than machinary, pure socialism is an economic system with no individual incentives to do better, improve productivity or create something new.

Well no.
No economic system has a moral compass. People have a moral compass.
Capitalism produces opportunities for people to do better for themselves, and in doing so they do better for others as well.
Socialism produces opportunities for poltiicians and bureaucrats to dole out favors to their friends,cronies, and supporters.
Socialism fails every single time. Capitalism succeeds every single time.

That is nothing but dogma, and utterly wrong on all accounts.

 

[Uncensored2008]

There are aspects of Socialism that augment and safeguard the citizens without hampering Capitalism. That's what makes arguments against Socialism, like yours which presents either Communism (state control of industry) and Fascism (government directives to industry concerning production) utterly moot.

Yet using your definitions, the democratic party promotes and institutes fascism in every instance they have power. Obama's fascist care is a prime example. As you said, government directives to industry concerning production - the very definition of the ACA.

So the democrats are a fascist party and seek to expand fascism.

 

[The Rabbi]

In a nutshell: pure capitalism is an economic system with no moral compass and a view of workers as nothing more than machinary, pure socialism is an economic system with no individual incentives to do better, improve productivity or create something new.

Well no.
No economic system has a moral compass. People have a moral compass.

Economic systems are made of of people however.

Capitalism produces opportunities for people to do better for themselves, and in doing so they do better for others as well.

I think that's the theory but the reality doesn't work that way because human nature is involved. Some of the worst abuses have occurred under unrestricted capitalism - sweat shops, triangle shirtwaist factory fire etc - those abuse's didn't stop on their own do to the kindness of the owners, human life is cheap in that kind of society. They stopped because of compulsion - via government regulation.

Socialism produces opportunities for poltiicians and bureaucrats to dole out favors to their friends,cronies, and supporters.

Socialism forces a moral compass on the process by creating safety nets and making the rights of workers as important as the rights of employers.

Using your logic capitalism produces opportunities for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.

Socialism fails every single time. Capitalism succeeds every single time.

I disagree.

As an economic system pure socialism fail in practice because it offers no incentives for the individual to work harder, be innovative or take risks.
As an economic system pure capitalism fails in practice because it encourages the cheapening of human rights and rewards a few very highly at the expense of the many.

In my opinion - a blend of the two is the best because each tends to assume that humane nature is better than it really is.

Economic systems are people, my friend!

You point out an isolated incident like Triangle Shirt Waist and condemn the entire system because of it? Much worse industrial abuses occurred under the Soviets
All the ills usually attributed to capitalism generally come from lack of capitalism and government control in the market.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Genocidal dictatorships taking an ideology to an extreme (and for personal gain) were responsible for horrendous acts. There is nothing in the actual ideology that calls for that. Look at modern socialist countries, like in Scandinavia, for example.

The real failing in socialism is that it fails to reward the individual and we are individuals.

Edited to add - actually, Sweden isn't socialist, it's a blend so I'm wrong about that

Comrade, what percentage of the industry in Scandinavia is centrally planned or government owned?

Leftists lie that European welfare states are "socialist." when they are anything but.

 

[Edgetho]

In my opinion - a blend of the two is the best because each tends to assume that humane nature is better than it really is.

I don't believe there is any getting away from that reality.

socialism took root in places where there was never even the faintest hint of Free Market Capitalism and it has become more popular than it deserves to be.

In any case, socialism, or a form of it (social democracy seems most likely) will be the next great experiment for this Country.

And it will fail. It always has, it always will.

But at least, maybe we can avoid the cataclysmic Wars socialism caused in the 20th Century.

Yes..... National Socialism WAS socialism. You may not think so, professorial eggheads may deny it (because they don't want the word 'socialism' attached to it) but you know what....?

The people that invented it thought it was socialism and that's what counts. What you, or anybody else, thinks of it is irrelevant..... THEY thought it was socialism.

Watch the greatest propaganda film ever made (Triumph of the will) if you don't believe me)

But people will continue to delude themselves as to the nature of what socialism is.... It's human nature. One of the more onerous aspects of human nature -- To deny reality in favor of what you want.

Socialism is/was the most murderous form of government/economy ever devised by Man.

Period.

end rant

 

[Nosmo King]

There are aspects of Socialism that augment and safeguard the citizens without hampering Capitalism. That's what makes arguments against Socialism, like yours which presents either Communism (state control of industry) and Fascism (government directives to industry concerning production) utterly moot.

Yet using your definitions, the democratic party promotes and institutes fascism in every instance they have power. Obama's fascist care is a prime example. As you said, government directives to industry concerning production - the very definition of the ACA.

So the democrats are a fascist party and seek to expand fascism.

Are safety standards for automobiles Fascist in your eyes? The government mandates that industry adhere to certain standards. Has the ACA torn control of the insurance industry? Are underwriters still providing coverage?

I think you have the ACA confused with single payer.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

There are aspects of Socialism that augment and safeguard the citizens without hampering Capitalism. That's what makes arguments against Socialism, like yours which presents either Communism (state control of industry) and Fascism (government directives to industry concerning production) utterly moot.

Yet using your definitions, the democratic party promotes and institutes fascism in every instance they have power. Obama's fascist care is a prime example. As you said, government directives to industry concerning production - the very definition of the ACA.

So the democrats are a fascist party and seek to expand fascism.

That's just utter crap. The stock market is cruising like never before because of Fascism? Come people, use your heads not your dogma.

 

[The Rabbi]

There are aspects of Socialism that augment and safeguard the citizens without hampering Capitalism. That's what makes arguments against Socialism, like yours which presents either Communism (state control of industry) and Fascism (government directives to industry concerning production) utterly moot.

Yet using your definitions, the democratic party promotes and institutes fascism in every instance they have power. Obama's fascist care is a prime example. As you said, government directives to industry concerning production - the very definition of the ACA.

So the democrats are a fascist party and seek to expand fascism.

Are safety standards for automobiles Fascist in your eyes? The government mandates that industry adhere to certain standards. Has the ACA torn control of the insurance industry? Are underwriters still providing coverage?

I think you have the ACA confused with single payer.

Yes they are. They have driven up costs and probably done little to promote safety.
Yes, the ACA has mandated the insurers offer certain benefits and only those.
What rock have you been living under?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Are safety standards for automobiles Fascist in your eyes?

No more than stops signs are - a flaccid attempt to escape your own words.

The government mandates that industry adhere to certain standards. Has the ACA torn control of the insurance industry? Are underwriters still providing coverage?

I think you have the ACA confused with single payer.

Fascist care does a lot more than that - dictating the details of production in mandating exactly what will be produced and sold, as well as forced consumption by the public at large.

It is by your own admission, the classic example of fascism. American democrats are a fascist party - that is a fact.

 

[westwall]

For the enlightenment of liberals who consistently don't get this

Capitalism is economic freedom. Consumers, producers, employers, employees, businesses, individuals, we make our own choices for our own interest. That drives market efficiency which benefits everyone. The primary role of government in capitalism is to provide civil courts to redress civil crimes (e.g., breach of contract) and criminal courts to redress crimes (e.g., fraud).

An informed buyer/employee is best served with complete and accurate information. I consider it a legitimate role for government to require accurate disclosures. So for example I oppose government forcing a business to hire or serve blacks. However, I am in favor of government forcing them to disclose that clearly and accurately to other potential employees or customers. I also consider it legitimate for government to enforce accurate advertising, whether products were tested or not and how thoroughly, that sort of thing. Government should not force them to do those things, but it can require them to disclose accurately what they did and didn't do to facilitate better buying decisions.

Socialism is central economic planning. Central economic planning means that consumers, producers, employers, employees, businesses, individuals must make decisions that are not in their own interest. Otherwise central planning would not be required, capitalism would yield the same result. And the only way to get people to act against their own interest is force, and only the government can use force.

Various forms of socialism are full socialism where all industry is owned by government, fascism where industry is technically in private ownership but all decisions are dictated or approved by government and crony capitalism where government helps the businesses in quid pro quo fashion where the businesses fund the politicians and the politicians write laws to assist those businesses. In all those cases, planning is central and enforced by government guns to force the people to act against their own interest. To the people, they are the same, you have the choices government gives you.

Fairly basic. The truth is the best countries, with the highest level of upward mobility for its citizens enjoy a healthy mix of collectivist, and capitalist ideals. Capitalism run amuck is every bad as socialism run amuck.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

You point out an isolated incident like Triangle Shirt Waist and condemn the entire system because of it?

That's not an isolated incident. It's a bad one but what it is is an underlying systemic problem in capitalism, which you do not understand.

 

[Edgetho]

Comrade, what percentage of the industry in Scandinavia is centrally planned or government owned?

Leftists lie that European welfare states are "socialist." when they are anything but.

They're social democracies. A couple of them are democratic socialist.

socialism doesn't exist anywhere. In fact, it never has.

Which is why it is so popular....... Proponents can make it into anything they want.

Free Market Capitalism, OTOH, DOES exist and people can easily point to its flaws. Of which, there are many.

But socialism is nothing more than pipe dream. It has never existed. Only murderous dictators and power-hungry politicians that call themselves socialists

 

[Uncensored2008]

That's just utter crap. The stock market is cruising like never before because of Fascism? Come people, use your heads not your dogma.

And you you'll hold your breath until you turn blue.

Yet you remain an ignorant troll spewing party mantras, lacking the requisite intellect to grasp the concepts at play.

Nosmo certainly didn't intend to highlight the fact that democrats are a fascist party with his factual definition of what Fascism is - and now the bell cannot be unrung.

 

[Nosmo King]

There are aspects of Socialism that augment and safeguard the citizens without hampering Capitalism. That's what makes arguments against Socialism, like yours which presents either Communism (state control of industry) and Fascism (government directives to industry concerning production) utterly moot.

Yet using your definitions, the democratic party promotes and institutes fascism in every instance they have power. Obama's fascist care is a prime example. As you said, government directives to industry concerning production - the very definition of the ACA.

So the democrats are a fascist party and seek to expand fascism.

Are safety standards for automobiles Fascist in your eyes? The government mandates that industry adhere to certain standards. Has the ACA torn control of the insurance industry? Are underwriters still providing coverage?

I think you have the ACA confused with single payer.

Yes they are. They have driven up costs and probably done little to promote safety.
Yes, the ACA has mandated the insurers offer certain benefits and only those.
What rock have you been living under?

So safety standards are Fascist?

Do you recall who wrote this: All the ills usually attributed to capitalism generally come from lack of capitalism and government control in the market ?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

That's just utter crap. The stock market is cruising like never before because of Fascism? Come people, use your heads not your dogma.

And you you'll hold your breath until you turn blue.

Yet you remain an ignorant troll spewing party mantras, lacking the requisite intellect to grasp the concepts at play.

Nosmo certainly didn't intend to highlight the fact that democrats are a fascist party with his factual definition of what Fascism is - and now the bell cannot be unrung.

The only Fascists here are the Christian Right. Everyone else, almost without exception, is an ignorant Capitalist like you.

 

[Edgetho]

Fairly basic. The truth is the best countries, with the highest level of upward mobility for its citizens enjoy a healthy mix of collectivist, and capitalist ideals. Capitalism run amuck is every bad as socialism run amuck.

Humanity has made the greatest advances in its history in the last Century due to one thing and one thing only -- Free Market Capitalism.

socialism reared its ugly, regressive head and tried to set us back by a thousand years but -- We prevailed.

socialism is inevitable in this Country and we will pay for it dearly.

I am right.