The difference between capitalism and socialism in a nutshell

[westwall]

But socialism is nothing more than pipe dream. It has never existed. Only murderous dictators and power-hungry politicians that call themselves socialists

That's simply utter crap, so why do you bother posting it? It's nonsense.

Because I didn't write that. You have altered my post which is a huge violation.

 

[The Rabbi]

There are aspects of Socialism that augment and safeguard the citizens without hampering Capitalism. That's what makes arguments against Socialism, like yours which presents either Communism (state control of industry) and Fascism (government directives to industry concerning production) utterly moot.

Yet using your definitions, the democratic party promotes and institutes fascism in every instance they have power. Obama's fascist care is a prime example. As you said, government directives to industry concerning production - the very definition of the ACA.

So the democrats are a fascist party and seek to expand fascism.

Are safety standards for automobiles Fascist in your eyes? The government mandates that industry adhere to certain standards. Has the ACA torn control of the insurance industry? Are underwriters still providing coverage?

I think you have the ACA confused with single payer.

Yes they are. They have driven up costs and probably done little to promote safety.
Yes, the ACA has mandated the insurers offer certain benefits and only those.
What rock have you been living under?

So safety standards are Fascist?

Do you recall who wrote this: All the ills usually attributed to capitalism generally come from lack of capitalism and government control in the market ?

SAety standards imposed by the government certainly are. Why would you think differently?

 

[Edgetho]

The only Fascists here are the Christian Right. Everyone else, almost without exception, is an ignorant Capitalist like you.

Fascism is a form of socialism, moron.

Get an education

 

[PaintMyHouse]

But socialism is nothing more than pipe dream. It has never existed. Only murderous dictators and power-hungry politicians that call themselves socialists

That's simply utter crap, so why do you bother posting it? It's nonsense.

Because I didn't write that. You have altered my post which is a huge violation.

Sorry, that was an Edge quote. I deleted it. Please do the same and I have no idea how such a thing happened.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The only Fascists here are the Christian Right. Everyone else, almost without exception, is an ignorant Capitalist like you.

Of course, because chanting party mantras will drive off that evil thinking that your guard vigilantly against..You obey the party, never questioning, never thinking. Your rulers know what is best, your only job is to obey.

 

[Nosmo King]

There are aspects of Socialism that augment and safeguard the citizens without hampering Capitalism. That's what makes arguments against Socialism, like yours which presents either Communism (state control of industry) and Fascism (government directives to industry concerning production) utterly moot.

Yet using your definitions, the democratic party promotes and institutes fascism in every instance they have power. Obama's fascist care is a prime example. As you said, government directives to industry concerning production - the very definition of the ACA.

So the democrats are a fascist party and seek to expand fascism.

Are safety standards for automobiles Fascist in your eyes? The government mandates that industry adhere to certain standards. Has the ACA torn control of the insurance industry? Are underwriters still providing coverage?

I think you have the ACA confused with single payer.

Yes they are. They have driven up costs and probably done little to promote safety.
Yes, the ACA has mandated the insurers offer certain benefits and only those.
What rock have you been living under?

So safety standards are Fascist?

Do you recall who wrote this: All the ills usually attributed to capitalism generally come from lack of capitalism and government control in the market ?

SAety standards imposed by the government certainly are. Why would you think differently?

Because the government does not provide schematic drawings for safety devices. The government does not mandate the suppliers and vendors of approved safety devices. The car makers work within the regulations.

Just like trying to prevent the Triangle Shirtwaist fire.

 

[The Rabbi]

Yet using your definitions, the democratic party promotes and institutes fascism in every instance they have power. Obama's fascist care is a prime example. As you said, government directives to industry concerning production - the very definition of the ACA.

So the democrats are a fascist party and seek to expand fascism.

Are safety standards for automobiles Fascist in your eyes? The government mandates that industry adhere to certain standards. Has the ACA torn control of the insurance industry? Are underwriters still providing coverage?

I think you have the ACA confused with single payer.

Yes they are. They have driven up costs and probably done little to promote safety.
Yes, the ACA has mandated the insurers offer certain benefits and only those.
What rock have you been living under?

So safety standards are Fascist?

Do you recall who wrote this: All the ills usually attributed to capitalism generally come from lack of capitalism and government control in the market ?

SAety standards imposed by the government certainly are. Why would you think differently?

Because the government does not provide schematic drawings for safety devices. The government does not mandate the suppliers and vendors of approved safety devices. The car makers work within the regulations.

Just like trying to prevent the Triangle Shirtwaist fire.

Government certainly sets the standards and approves the devices. Tht is enough to make it facist.
And it probably does nothing to prevent any fires.

 

[peach174]

Where do you get this muck from? Sweden is Socialist, a Mixed Economy actually, and do you think life sucks there? It doesn't.

It's boring as hell there as well a Norway.
Everything is scheduled and controlled.
Everybody just follows the rules.
NO one has their own unique individuality. Everybody is pretty much the same.
The citizens are living within a sterile and clinical bubble-dome.
They have plenty of entrainment and things to do, but it is all planned and scheduled. No spontaneity.

 

[Uncensored2008]

So safety standards are Fascist?

You tried that before, and it remains stupid.

You are desperately arguing against your own words. You inadvertently posted facts, not grasping the implication until I highlighted them.

What you posted is indeed the heart of Fascism, as defined by Benito Mussolini. Mussolini was an intellectual, and a Bolshevik. He was precise in in his formula for a collectivist economy, recognizing the failures of Marx and Lenin, seeking to adjust the centrally planned economy into a workable form. Private ownership, government control.

Do you recall who wrote this: All the ills usually attributed to capitalism generally come from lack of capitalism and government control in the market ?

Google finds no match to that phrase.

Regardless, you have identified correctly that the program of the democrats is not Marxism or state ownership of the means of production, but rather fascism.

Se if you can tell who wrote this: "There is no need to own the means of production, it is better to own the owners." (From "Il Fascisti")

 

[PaintMyHouse]

But socialism is nothing more than pipe dream. It has never existed. Only murderous dictators and power-hungry politicians that call themselves socialists

That is entirely untrue. Why do you even bother saying what is so obviously untrue? Do you not know it is unture?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The only Fascists here are the Christian Right. Everyone else, almost without exception, is an ignorant Capitalist like you.

Of course, because chanting party mantras will drive off that evil thinking that your guard vigilantly against..You obey the party, never questioning, never thinking. Your rulers know what is best, your only job is to obey.

Projection. If you can't discuss economics rationally then don't bother.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Fairly basic. The truth is the best countries, with the highest level of upward mobility for its citizens enjoy a healthy mix of collectivist, and capitalist ideals. Capitalism run amuck is every bad as socialism run amuck.

Humanity has made the greatest advances in its history in the last Century due to one thing and one thing only -- Free Market Capitalism.

socialism reared its ugly, regressive head and tried to set us back by a thousand years but -- We prevailed.

socialism is inevitable in this Country and we will pay for it dearly.

I am right.

Socialism is common sense, human decency when capitalism is amoral. It's not that difficult. The principle is BALANCE. Human needs version economic growth and greed.

 

[Edgetho]

Socialism is common sense, human decency when capitalism is amoral. It's not that difficult. The principle is BALANCE. Human needs version economic growth and greed.

socialism is great IN THEORY.

If you understood the whole philosophy, which none of you in here do, you'd understand what a good philosophy it is.

I'm not being sardonic, it seriously is.

The problem is, and Marx wrote of this, that too many people want to bypass the necessary Capitalist phase of human development and jump right to socialism or, even more ridiculously, right to communism.

The question is -- Is socialism possible today?

I don't think so. Someday? Maybe.

Will communism (which most of you, again, don't understand) be possible after the requisite phase of socialism?

I don't know, Seems kind of futuristic to me but it is possible.

Humanity isn't ready for socialism. Which is the COLLECTIVE ownership of the means of production -- NOT State ownership. (hint: look up the word 'soviet')

If you'd read Marx, and not his anarchist, murderous disciples, you'd know that he hated The State almost as much as I do.

And even half as much as me is a lot. Really a lot.

 

[Iceweasel]

In a nutshell: pure capitalism is an economic system with no moral compass and a view of workers as nothing more than machinary, pure socialism is an economic system with no individual incentives to do better, improve productivity or create something new.

The problem I have with that is purity is a religious concept. Capitalism needs a system of rules and laws to operate or it would just be an unstable chaos. Capitalism is a system of interaction to make and earn capital. Money isn't moral or immoral, people are. And very many capitalists would not agree that their workers are just machinery. That's pretty jaded view. It sure isn't how I see it.

 

[Avorysuds]

Where do you get this muck from? Sweden is Socialist, a Mixed Economy actually, and do you think life sucks there? It doesn't.

I think if they were not exporting oil to destroy the world with CO2 admissions they would be one of the poorest countries on planet earth... Seeing as about 1 third of their economy is based on selling oil.

The worst thing that could happen to Sweden is someone creates a sustainable energy source.

 

[Edgetho]

Where do you get this muck from? Sweden is Socialist, a Mixed Economy actually, and do you think life sucks there? It doesn't.

I think if they were not exporting oil to destroy the world with CO2 admissions they would be one of the poorest countries on planet earth... Seeing as about 1 third of their economy is based on selling oil.

The worst thing that could happen to Sweden is someone creates a sustainable energy source.

Not sure Sweden exports much in the way of oil. A little bit but not enough to get excited about.

One thing everybody misses in all these discussions about economies is one very important thing.....

Sweden is full of (are you sitting down?) -- Swedes.

And they are some very hard-working (work ethic is off the scale) and some very serious, family-oriented, morals-bound, educated people.

 

[Iceweasel]

Are safety standards for automobiles Fascist in your eyes?.

I would say so in some regards. People are dying because big government leans on auto makers to get X amount of miles per. Since they can only push current technology so far they often meet the regulations by lightening the bodies. There are a report this morning on the three most fatal cars, all small econ-cruisers.

ALSO, I had a GMC Jimmy once. They had to have some versions meet the mileage standards to sell the body, normally a 4.0 liter motor. They did it by stuffing a 2.6 in it. It was too small. Mine died like they all did, engine was toast. So that means I had to spend resources on getting another auto and someone had to build another auto, all because the one I had died prematurely.

So the bureaucrats and supporters of this nonsense can feel good about themselves but they are killing people and costing us lots of money. Small price to pay I guess.

 

[peach174]

That's just utter crap. The stock market is cruising like never before because of Fascism? Come people, use your heads not your dogma.

And you you'll hold your breath until you turn blue.

Yet you remain an ignorant troll spewing party mantras, lacking the requisite intellect to grasp the concepts at play.

Nosmo certainly didn't intend to highlight the fact that democrats are a fascist party with his factual definition of what Fascism is - and now the bell cannot be unrung.

The only Fascists here are the Christian Right. Everyone else, almost without exception, is an ignorant Capitalist like you.

Spoken like the true snobbish Elitist that you are.
Just like a lot of the lefties.
All of you who do this, miss the points and facts and different view points being made, when you assume and put words in others mouths and twist the words.
You all love your little elite bubble world and hate anything that upsets that little bubble world.
Those that think they know it all, know nothing.

 

[Edgetho]

Are safety standards for automobiles Fascist in your eyes?.

I would say so in some regards. People are dying because big government leans on auto makers to get X amount of miles per. Since they can only push current technology so far they often meet the regulations by lightening the bodies. There are a report this morning on the three most fatal cars, all small econ-cruisers.

ALSO, I had a GMC Jimmy once. They had to have some versions meet the mileage standards to sell the body, normally a 4.0 liter motor. They did it by stuffing a 2.6 in it. It was too small. Mine died like they all did, engine was toast. So that means I had to spend resources on getting another auto and someone had to build another auto, all because the one I had died prematurely.

So the bureaucrats and supporters of this nonsense can feel good about themselves but they are killing people and costing us lots of money. Small price to pay I guess.

Sometimes it is helpful to sit back understand Human Nature.

This is a good time to look at it....

(most of this rant is aimed at the general public, not at you personally)

If the government didn't step in and make Safety Standards universal, guess what would happen?

Some Auto Manufactures would omit safety equipment in order to meet a price point.... IOW, they could sell them more cheaply.

The socialists (and idiots, same-same) among us will automatically, without thought, blame the Big Corporations for their 'Greed and Avarice' when the truth is.... It is just the opposite.

It is the CONSUMER who would make the choice to buy the cheapest car for the cheapest price REGARDLESS of the onboard safety equipment.

By mandating that ALL manufacturers put certain safety equipment on ALL of their models, the goobermint takes the choice out of the hands of the public.

Corporations just make what people want, they don't make moral judgements. They just sell the shit.

You buy a piece of shit that gets half your family killed in an accident? Is it really the manufacturers fault or did you not know that it was piece of shit to begin with.

Of course you did. But you're gonna run to Dewey, Cheatum and Howe two seconds after they take you off the respirator. And we both know it

Own a business, run a business, hire and fire..... Then talk to me about where the real greed in this Country is.

 

[CowboyTed]

The reason there is no standard definition of 'socialism' is really quite simple....

There has never been a successful socialist economy.

Capitalism defined is fairly easy because we have shining examples of it all over the World.

Free Market Capitalism is too often confused with 17th, 18th and 19th Century State-Sponsored Corporatism.

The two aren't related in any way. None at all, really.

For idiot 'socialists' living in the past, they make comparisons of today's modern Free Market Capitalism based on 17th Century Corporatism. Which is idiotic..... But, then again, so is socialism.

It doesn't work.

Ever been to Sweden? I have.

It does suck. It really does. (when I was there 20 years ago) An entire Country filled with depressed, suicidal Citizens who can only hide their unhappiness through heavy doses of alcohol and Janteloven.

But at least the Swedes realized their mistakes and are trying to work themselves out of them.

Right now, Sweden is considered far more business-start-up-friendly than the United States and is real close in the ease of doing business.

Ranking of economies - Doing Business - World Bank Group

socialism sucks. It has failed in every instance it has ever been tried

I have been to Sweden numerous times and there is a lot about Sweden's society that has to be admired. They think more long term than say the US economy, they think as a society.
But generally you get a feeling that if things don't work out that there is a safety net there. Edgetho fails to point out that there is no begging on the street, crime is super low. There version of low income ghettos are perfectly safe anytime of the day.
Education is free and courses are given to academic achievement solely, so get the grades doesn't matter how much daddy makes. Imagine that level of hope to kids.
The place is super clean and working there I found even the business culture doesn't revert to an Alpha Male contest. I worked there two years ago on a project that was way over budget but not one person rose there voice or said a snide comment. That behaviour is unacceptable. There was disagreements but they were professional, this was my biggest take back from them.
Drug problem is dealt with treatment more than jail time.

What I got from them is they a higher functioning society than most every place I have worked around the world. I found similar things in Denmark but they were more North German influence with less freedom of thought.

As for Edgetho, let me explain this to you... Both USA, Hong Kong, Sweden.... are mixed economies. Your 'socialism suck' comment means you want no roads, police, firemen, army, any health or safety standard... You have just made yourself a joke... A pure capitalist society would self destruct,
In pure capitalism you will have little to no labor laws, child labor, low wages and other abusive work policies that lead to low living standards..... Since there is no money to enforce laws they don't have to be obeyed.
By the way can you give us a major economist in history who say Laissez-faire (pure captialism) would work. This backed up by a serious piece of work. Even the 'Wealth of Nations' , Adam Smith said later:
Adam Smith acknowledged deep moral ambiguities towards the system of capitalism. Smith had severe misgivings concerning some aspects of each of the major character-types produced by modern capitalist society: the landlords, the workers, and the capitalists.[37] "The landlords' role in the economic process is passive. Their ability to reap a revenue solely from ownership of land tends to make them indolent and inept, and so they tend to be unable to even look after their own economic interests." "The increase in population should increase the demand for food, which should increase rents, which should be economically beneficial to the landlords. Thus, according to Smith, the landlords should be in favour of policies which contribute to the growth of in the wealth of nations. Unfortunately, they often are not in favour of these pro-growth policies, because of their own indolent-induced ignorance and intellectual flabbiness."
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So the godfather of your ideas is not backing you up.